Are Collingwood really that good???

[daics cousin]

All i will say is this.

If we can manage our side,come September we have a realtively full list to pick fromthen all comers look out.

All we are doing at the moment is manouvering the game plan and working on settling the list and NO WAY are we playing our best football.

We have learned from previous years that its a long hard season this time we will manage the players to be cherry ripe come the business end of the year.Remember premierships are won in Sept not in March-Aug.

This is great,nothing better than going into finals action as complete
underdogs,just the way we like it.

Remember every game we lost so far is only cause we kicked ourselves out of it.
Geelong,stkilda,brisbane and drew with Melbourne, had we had kicked
straight we would have not lost one game,playing average footy.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Remember every game we lost so far is only cause we kicked ourselves out of it.
Geelong,stkilda,brisbane and drew with Melbourne, had we had kicked
straight we would have not lost one game,playing average footy.

Awesome.

 

[Falchoon]

Remember every game we lost so far is only cause we kicked ourselves out of it.
Geelong,stkilda,brisbane and drew with Melbourne, had we had kicked
straight we would have not lost one game,playing average footy.

Wow, if your team had better skills and could execute them under pressure, you'd be better?

Blow me down.

 

[Blaster]

Geelong played us like cats with mice.

but they do that with most teams.

 

[The Kipster]

If you really want to know what is wrong with the Pies - they were playing corridor football earlier in the season. Down the middle. Scoring mainly goals and having shoot outs with teams. Hence winning with panache.​

I agree Blaster, as a non-supporter.....the corridor useage during a game comes down to strength, the stronger team will tend to exercise there right to the corridor...in my view

 

[Falchoon]

I agree Blaster, as a non-supporter.....the corridor useage during a game comes down to strength, the stronger team will tend to exercise there right to the corridor...in my view

I thought Melbourne utilised the corridor much better than Collingwood, making the Dees look much more efficient going forward yet I wouldn't consider Melbourne a better/stronger team than Collingwood.

It looked to be an active part of the game plan from the Dees, but not the Pies.

 

[The Kipster]

I thought Melbourne utilised the corridor much better than Collingwood, making the Dees look much more efficient going forward yet I wouldn't consider Melbourne a better/stronger team than Collingwood.

It looked to be an active part of the game plan from the Dees, but not the Pies.

I think every club knows the quickest way home is down the middle, I also think that the team that is able to block the oppostion run through the corridor generally has the 'rub of the green' or has a run on....

I suppose the strength comes from the ability to keep your opposition out of that area

 

[Blaster]

But that is the whole point!!!

Earlier in the season, when we got to the top of the ladder Collingwood were kings of the corridor and naturally we lead the league in scoring.

During the Geelong game and since, the old master manipulator, Mick Malthouse has turn it back to his old game plan and hence the pies are very, very ordinary.

it is as if Malthouse said, I would rather you lose playing my chip, chip, boundary line game than have you win playing a corridor, fask break, game style.

the players don't want to play micks 1920s style footy.

Thus the confidence is shot and they drop their heads.

look at the revolving door in the forward line.

Anthony, Dawes, Davis, Leigh Brown, Darren Jolly, Josh Fraser......

all there for awhile but not long enough to make something of it.

Malthouse clearly doesn't rate forwards.

his excuse after a game we lose is:-

Yeah we got the ball into the forward 50 over 60 times, we should score..

Yeah Mick, but the ball movement is so slow, by the time it does creep into the 50, the other side has a 18 player flood on and none of our guys are free.

get the ball in there quicker, free up the forwards....

and watch the goals mount up again.


Like they did in the first 7 or 8 rounds.

 

[The Fireman]

But that is the whole point!!!

Earlier in the season, when we got to the top of the ladder Collingwood were kings of the corridor and naturally we lead the league in scoring.

During the Geelong game and since, the old master manipulator, Mick Malthouse has turn it back to his old game plan and hence the pies are very, very ordinary.

it is as if Malthouse said, I would rather you lose playing my chip, chip, boundary line game than have you win playing a corridor, fask break, game style.

the players don't want to play micks 1920s style footy.

Thus the confidence is shot and they drop their heads.

look at the revolving door in the forward line.

Anthony, Dawes, Davis, Leigh Brown, Darren Jolly, Josh Fraser......

all there for awhile but not long enough to make something of it.

Malthouse clearly doesn't rate forwards.

his excuse after a game we lose is:-

Yeah we got the ball into the forward 50 over 60 times, we should score..

Yeah Mick, but the ball movement is so slow, by the time it does creep into the 50, the other side has a 18 player flood on and none of our guys are free.

get the ball in there quicker, free up the forwards....

and watch the goals mount up again.


Like they did in the first 7 or 8 rounds.

You have a decent forward in Cloke but he just can't kick, you need a tall marking forward who can but you are right MMs poor coaching allows all teams to flood easily.

 

[KissStephanie]

KissStephenie - Collingwood will not win another premiership in your lifetime.

Blaster - Collingwood will win another premiership in my life time.

In fact, I think there is a very good chance that it will happen this year, and if it does happen then the extra satisfaction will be because people such as yourself won't be able to fully enjoy it! The same goes for any of the other negative, fair-weathered, misery guts, so-called supporters of all clubs, such as yourself, that go out and buy a brand new jumper after the team has won!

That's probably the easy way out, it doesn't do much for your credibility though.

I still don't know what you're on about.

BTW nor does your lack of attention to detail given you so often like to point out others typing errors, but that's another story.

What is your problem? Where has this come from? When I have said anything about typing errors to you? In fact, when I have pointed out typing errors to others unless it is a part of a misspelt attempted personal insult?

I'll spell it out, as an avid subscriber to your posts I can't recall you ever expressing concern that Collingwood were playing too well. I was hoping you could help me find such a post.

This is BigFooty, It's not Twitter. Therefore, I don't post every single thought that I have on here, and I don't have time to post every single day either. When Collingwood won by 64 points, 65 points, 53 points, 66 points, and 36 points in succession, then I thought that would be hard to maintain, which concerned me a bit, but not at any time did I say that I posted that concern. The last month has been a bit disappointing because Collingwood should have beaten Brisbane and Melbourne, but at least there is time for the team to return to form before the finals.

 

[DangerHere]

Blaster - Collingwood will win another premiership in my life time.

In fact, I think there is a very good chance that it will happen this year, and if it does happen then the extra satisfaction will be because people such as yourself won't be able to fully enjoy it! The same goes for any of the other negative, fair-weathered, misery guts, so-called supporters of all clubs, such as yourself, that go out and buy a brand new jumper after the team has won!I still don't know what you're on about.What is your problem? Where has this come from? When I have said anything about typing errors to you? In fact, when I have pointed out typing errors to others unless it is a part of a misspelt attempted personal insult?This is BigFooty, It's not Twitter. Therefore, I don't post every single thought that I have on here, and I don't have time to post every single day either. When Collingwood won by 64 points, 65 points, 53 points, 66 points, and 36 points in succession, then I thought that would be hard to maintain, which concerned me a bit, but not at any time did I say that I posted that concern. The last month has been a bit disappointing because Collingwood should have beaten Brisbane and Melbourne, but at least there is time for the team to return to form before the finals.

Alas KS, I think you're wrong and I'm bookmarking this thread...

It's great to see you're such a Magpie fan, but you will surely be disappointed once again.

The Maggies will probably make the Prelim, but there are AT LEAST two teams head and shoulders above them...

Truth is ... Colinwoood are not good enough to win a flag with that list of players ...

You know the top 5 front runners at your club ... they'll be front running (and failing) again come September

 

[Blaster]

Blaster - Collingwood will win another premiership in my life time.

In fact, I think there is a very good chance that it will happen this year, and if it does happen then the extra satisfaction will be because people such as yourself won't be able to fully enjoy it! The same goes for any of the other negative, fair-weathered, misery guts, so-called supporters of all clubs, such as yourself, that go out and buy a brand new jumper after the team has won!

You live in New York, you don't even go to the games, and your opinion is irrelevant. It’s like asking me who is going to win in the Celtics v Lakers game and why? And taking my opinion over someone who has gone and seen every NBA game, all season. Please, your comedy routine is wearing thin for many TRUE Collingwood supporters as expressed by them in this and a 100 over threads. You are embarrassing us all.

You haven’t seen any games, live this year. You need to see AFL football live to know the nuances of each and every game. A tv picture does not and can not give anyone any insight at all!!!

You believe the fairies at the bottom of the garden are going to magically make Collingwood better.

Please, you are an embarrassment.


I have supported Collingwood for 45 years and gone to approximately a thousand games in that time. You analysis is based on.....

that is right, the faires at the bottom of the garden are going to magically make us better.

Yes, we can get into the finals. But that is not the point. We need a quantum leap to be competitive with a star-studded Geelong and a Reiwoldt inspired St Kilda. at the moment we are fumbling against an honest Melbourne with a lot of players having played less than 20 games and a Brisbane with Fevola and Brown both on one leg.

Where are the leaders at the Collingwood football Club?? Too busy getting their pictures taken in the paper.



Our forward line is a calamity.

It doesn’t just change week to week or quarter to quarter, it changes minute to minute…

The most important thing for players is continuality so they know if someone is left or right forward, where they lead and so they can kick it to advantage.

When you change things every five minutes, no one knows what is going on and confidence evaporates.


Totally disorganised and unstructured and unsure of which personnel to use.


That from a coaching staff is appalling.

Look at the list of coaches at Collingwood. There are more coaches than Spencer Street bus station.

Yet none of them can teach our players how to kick.

Geoff Walsh
Chief of Football
Michael Malthouse
Senior Coach
Tracey O’Connor
Executive Assistant
Nathan Buckley
Assistant Coach
Scott Watters
Assistant Coach
Paul Hudson
Assistant Coach
Mark Neeld
Assistant Coach
Max Hudghton
Defensive Coach
Gavin Brown
VFL Coach/Development
Paul Licuria
VFL Manager/Player Development Manager
Luke Beveridge
Development Manager
Shane Joules
Opposition Analyst
David Stiff
High Performance Manager/Player Psychology


</SPAN>




Who actually takes training at Collingwood? That is right, the fitness manager, David Buttifant who refuses to let the players practice kicking for goal yet we consistently score 9-22, 4-18 etc, etc, etc.

The Collingwood football club is dishevelled and continually in crisis management.

I had some hopes at the beginning of the year when we played the corridor and the quick break game style. It was hugely successful in the first part of the year.

But during and after the Geelong game we reverted back to the bad old daze....

I would rather lose playing the fast break game style than playing Mick's beloved chip, chip, chip to the boundary line and wait for the opposition to flood back.

It is frustrating and lacks any initiative at all.

The players lose confidence in each other and we see what happens….

The demise of “the team” ethos.

You can see by the train wrecks and turnover of forwards we have had this year, that they have no faith it also.

 

[fpm84]

I believe Collingwood will (*should*) win a flag within the next two or three years, but to win it this year they need both Geelong and St Kilda to fall over. Given both of those clubs appear head and shoulders above the rest right now, given both have already comfortably beaten Collingwood and given both have been winning despite the prolonged absence of key players (Scarlett; Ottens; Riewoldt; Gram) it's fair to say both have been more impressive than Collingwood in 2010.

 

[PIES 4 LIFE]

I believe Collingwood will (*should*) win a flag within the next two or three years, but to win it this year they need both Geelong and St Kilda to fall over. Given both of those clubs appear head and shoulders above the rest right now, given both have already comfortably beaten Collingwood and given both have been winning despite the prolonged absence of key players (Scarlett; Ottens; Riewoldt; Gram) it's fair to say both have been more impressive than Collingwood in 2010.

Just to get of topic for the moment, I have a question for Geelong Supporters, I have only seen one Grand Final in my Life time live.

Would you Celebrate this years Premiership, If you do win it, as much as last years and 2007, or because of the high expectation that it is basically in the bag diminish that enjoyment just a bit.

 

[KissStephanie]

You live in New York, you don't even go to the games, and your opinion is irrelevant.

I stopped reading your post here, and nor will I be reading any more of them in the future. You do not know me,or anything about me, so stop pretending as if you do. You have no idea where I used to work, or how often I go back to Australia, or how many matches I see per year. You have simply looked at my location and jumped to conclusions because you lack the ability for lateral thought, and you lack the common sense intelligence to even ask.

In my opinion you are a supporter of a different club, and you have only stated that you are a Collingwood supporter so that your negative, and unrealistic and out of touch bagging may be taken more seriously by some people. Either that, or you are that dill that had a go at Eddie on Copeland Trophy night. There are many people that do not barrack for Collingwood that are far more knowledgeable and fair about the club than you.

 

[The Fireman]

Do ignore lists have a cap?

 

[KissStephanie]

Alas KS, I think you're wrong and I'm bookmarking this thread...

I'm not sure what bookmarking this thread is going to achieve. It's not as if I have made any outrageous statements. Nobody knew for certain which team was going to win last years Grand Final with 10 minutes to go, so I think it's fair to suggest that nobody knows which team will win this years premiership with more than three months to go.

It's great to see you're such a Magpie fan, but you will surely be disappointed once again.

I will try to make this clear for you. I only get disappointed if Collingwood loses matches that they are supposed to win.

The Maggies will probably make the Prelim, but there are AT LEAST two teams head and shoulders above them..

At least two teams that are head and shoulders ahead of Collingwood? Ha ha ha! Actually, there is one team that is six premiership points ahead, and another team that is only two premiership points ahead, and one of those teams will lose next week. Considering that you said there are at least two teams, then which of the teams below Collingwood are head and shoulders ahead then? This sentence of yours makes it quite clear that your opinion of Collingwood is never going to be fair or constructive. I however think that Collingwood can beat both Geelong and St.Kilda.

Truth is ... Colinwoood are not good enough to win a flag with that list of players

Ha ha ha! It's not the truth at all until after this years Grand Final if Collingwood has not won the premiership. Until then, it is only an opinion, and an opinion is neither right nor wrong. That said, there are some opinions in the media that I acknowledge, and these people have stated that Collingwood is capable of winning the premiership this year, which means a lot more than your obviously biased opinion.

You know the top 5 front runners at your club ... they'll be front running (and failing) again come September

You're just a Collingwood basher. Your opinion is biased and childish.

I believe Collingwood will (*should*) win a flag within the next two or three years

Sssshhhh! Don't tell Blaster that because it thinks that Collingwood cannot win another premiership in my life time! You're a Geelong supporter yet you're at least somewhat more realistic about Collingwood than that Blaster dill.

Ibut to win it this year they need both Geelong and St Kilda to fall over.

I disagree. I certainly don't feel that S.Kilda is invincible, and I think Collingwood will beat them at least once in the second half of the season. As for Geelong, then maybe if the Grand Final was next week, then Collingwood may need them to fall over. It's not though. The finals are twelve weeks away, and the Grand Final is sixteen weeks away, and I am quite confident that Collingwood will improve between now and then. I don't think that Geelong will improve though.

Given both of those clubs appear head and shoulders above the rest right now,

Given? What do you mean "given?" Nothing is a "given" about anything in footy. Where did you come up with this measurement of "head and shoulders?" Geelong is a game and a half ahead, and St.Kilda is half a game ahead. If you read the ladder, then that is what is says. That is the gap between the teams. Not some made-up "head and shoulders" bullshit. Geelong are the most in form team currently. St.Kilda has been doing enough to win recently too. That is the reality.

given both have already comfortably beaten Collingwood and given both have been winning despite the prolonged absence of key players

Many teams beat teams only to lose the next time they play each other. Collingwood will beat St.Kilda at least once in the second half of the season, whilst they are capable of beating Geelong too.

it's fair to say both have been more impressive than Collingwood in 2010.

Both Geelong and St.Kilda are much older and more experienced than Collingwood, so they should be more advanced at this time of the season. Collingwood's aim is to change that by the end of September though, and I think that can be done.

 

[The Big JPOD]

Freo is better than both Collingwood and the WB.

I love the constant Collingwood sook defence - oh we kicked badly.

heres a stat for the interested football fan.

In five games against the Saints and Geelong since the beginning of last season Collingwood have kicked

28:66

Just over 5 goals per game. All the points means they are mentally weak and fragile and crack in front of goals, probably all their shots are on acute angles because they attack from the wings at every opportunity.

They are average, but i really hope they make top four again, playing them in September for a good defensive team isn't too difficult.

Another reason they miss alot is because a bloke that coach's collingwood (MR UNTOUCHABLE) makes them play along the boundry's and go wide all the time! If anyone knows a little about footy is all about playing the corridor!! easier to kick goals from the corridor rather then on the boundry is it not???

 

[Falchoon]

.Both Geelong and St.Kilda are much older and more experienced than Collingwood, so they should be more advanced at this time of the season.

Incorrect.


Fact

The last 2 times St Kilda and Collingwood have met, Collingwood have fielded the more experienced side.

In last week's games Collingwood averaged 108 games per player St Kilda 112 and Geelong 112.

The only other team to field a more experienced side last week were the Dogs.

At what point do you stop pedaling this disinformation?

Round 13 2010, avg games per player

Bulldogs	113
St Kilda 	112
Geelong	112
Collingwood 	108

Sydney	94
Brisbane 	92
Fremantle	88
Carlton	87

Adelaide	86
Port Adelaide	86
Hawthorn	85
Essendon	77

Melbourne 	69
North Melb	68
Richmond	62
West Coast	59

 

[DangerHere]

At least two teams that are head and shoulders ahead of Collingwood? Ha ha ha! Actually, there is one team that is six premiership points ahead, and another team that is only two premiership points ahead, and one of those teams will lose next week. Considering that you said there are at least two teams, then which of the teams below Collingwood are head and shoulders ahead then? This sentence of yours makes it quite clear that your opinion of Collingwood is never going to be fair or constructive.

Not quite a "Touche" KS (as hard as you've tried), but then we're both Biased aren't we I know you are

I see our list as really strong, and yours as good, but not good enough.... you obviously think otherwise. Good for you ....

St Kilda is IMO superior to your team as well

Lets see how the season unfolds and then I guess there will be bragging rights come October

 

[KissStephanie]

Incorrect.
The last 2 times St Kilda and Collingwood have met, Collingwood have fielded the more experienced side.

Ha ha ha! Nice spin! Not only is St.Kilda's list older, but in Round 3, Collingwood were more than a year younger, which is significant. Collingwood did have an average games played of 118.2 games to St.Kilda's 117.9 though, but that's because Simon Prestigiacomo, Leigh Brown, Shane O'Bree and Tarkyn Lockyer all played together in the same match. Presti is the most important of those four players, but they are all replaceable, whilst Anthony Rocca played the time before that as well as those four players, but he is now retired.

Leigh Brown and Shane O'Bree are not in Collingwood's best team, whilst Tarkyn Lockyer is on the fringe and by no means established in the team any more. Last week was his first match back after eight successive weeks in the VFL. The only St.Kilda oldie from that match that can't get a game at the moment is Steven King, but he is still in St.Kilda's best team because neither Ben McEvoy or Rhys Stanley have done enough to keep him out for the rest of the season yet.

St.Kilda's best team is about 26.8 years of age, which is old, and this match was probably close to Collingwood's best team so far this season, and it was 24.8 years, which is not old at all, and only 95.8 matches on average per player. Most importantly, a Collingwood team made up of players that are 23 years of age and younger would easily beat a St.Kilda team made up of players that are 23 years of age or younger and that's because St.Kilda relies heavily on their oldies. Collingwood on the other hand do not.

 

[Pumbi]

A Collingwood team made up of players that are 23 years of age and younger would easily beat a St.Kilda team made up of players that are 23 years of age or younger and that's because St.Kilda relies heavily on their oldies. Collingwood on the other hand do not.

Oh noes!

 

[dymmot]

Ha ha ha! Nice spin! Not only is St.Kilda's list older, but in Round 3, Collingwood were more than a year younger, which is significant. Collingwood did have an average games played of 118.2 games to St.Kilda's 117.9 though, but that's because Simon Prestigiacomo, Leigh Brown, Shane O'Bree and Tarkyn Lockyer all played together in the same match. Presti is the most important of those four players, but they are all replaceable, whilst Anthony Rocca played the time before that as well as those four players, but he is now retired.

Leigh Brown and Shane O'Bree are not in Collingwood's best team, whilst Tarkyn Lockyer is on the fringe and by no means established in the team any more. Last week was his first match back after eight successive weeks in the VFL. The only St.Kilda oldie from that match that can't get a game at the moment is Steven King, but he is still in St.Kilda's best team because neither Ben McEvoy or Rhys Stanley have done enough to keep him out for the rest of the season yet.

St.Kilda's best team is about 26.8 years of age, which is old, and this match was probably close to Collingwood's best team so far this season, and it was 24.8 years, which is not old at all, and only 95.8 matches on average per player. Most importantly, a Collingwood team made up of players that are 23 years of age and younger would easily beat a St.Kilda team made up of players that are 23 years of age or younger and that's because St.Kilda relies heavily on their oldies. Collingwood on the other hand do not.

It is an ironic post this one considering you were found out from putting spin on statistics before Kiss.

Collingwood's list is around the same age as Geelong's was in 07 when it won its first flag. The fact that your guys have played as many average games as St Kilda is relevant to the issue as well because vwhile they are equally experienced, they are also much younger and reap the benefits such as injury recovery times being shorter. Had Roo been 23 he would hav e recovered in a lot less time that this has taken him and he would have been at reduced chance of having the injury in the first place as well.

The under 23 argument is redundant as the AFL has no competition for this age group.

 

[Falchoon]

Ha ha ha! Nice spin!

No spin required, here's your quote

.Both Geelong and St.Kilda are much older and more experienced than Collingwood,

Not whilst Salty is in charge.

Not only is St.Kilda's list older, but in Round 3, Collingwood were more than a year younger, which is significant.

and more experienced, in fact they are in the top 4 most experienced teams.

Collingwood did have an average games played of 118.2 games to St.Kilda's 117.9 though, but that's because Simon Prestigiacomo, Leigh Brown, Shane O'Bree and Tarkyn Lockyer all played together in the same match. Presti is the most important of those four players, but they are all replaceable, whilst Anthony Rocca played the time before that as well as those four players, but he is now retired.

So when you play your more experienced players, the team is more experienced, I'll buy that. The fact that your ultra conservative coach goes with them when under pressure would indicate they aren't easily replaced, particularly when the pressure goes up.

Certainly they are all more important than Steven King but comparing apples with apples has never been your strong point.

I certainly concur that the more experienced Collingwood players are closer to the end of their careers than their St Kilda counterparts (Steven King aside).

Most importantly, a Collingwood team made up of players that are 23 years of age and younger would easily beat a St.Kilda team made up of players that are 23 years of age or younger and that's because St.Kilda relies heavily on their oldies. Collingwood on the other hand do not.

Wow, lucky for us the competition that counts is open aged, though I would enjoy Melbourne thrashing Collingwood.

 

[Jimbo88]

Most importantly, a Collingwood team made up of players that are 23 years of age and younger would easily beat a St.Kilda team made up of players that are 23 years of age or younger and that's because St.Kilda relies heavily on their oldies. Collingwood on the other hand do not.

Yes, but this is not under 23's so who gives a shit. Most importantly is St Kilda's best team would easily beat Collingwoods best team and has done the last 4 times.. FACT. I do not care if you were missing players, or were fielding the youngest finals side in 1.6 millions years, you cannot beat us and haven't done so, even with us having 3 players being injured throughout the last game.