Are Collingwood really that good???

[YouIdiot]

Most importantly, a Collingwood team made up of players that are 23 years of age and younger would easily beat a St.Kilda team made up of players that are 23 years of age or younger

SO much face palm

When has there ever been an u/23's match?

And when has there ever been a certain Collingwood victory (Melbourne say hi!)?

Please stop.

 

[hellfire]

Why don't you stop bickering and wait and see in September? It could be the same old Collingwood failing before the big dance, or we could be "that good". No point arguing either way now.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Why is thread still going?

 

[KissStephanie]

Yes, but this is not under 23's so who gives a shit.

Is that a question or a statement? If it's a question, then I obviously give a shit, otherwise I wouldn't have made mention of it. The reason that I give a shit is quite obvious, and that is St.Kilda relies on their oldies. Collingwood does not. With the exception of maybe Dane Swan (only 26 years old), Luke Ball (only 26 years old) and Alan Didak (27 years old), Collingwood's most important players are 23 years of age or younger, and that is what truly determines the age of a team. That's certainly not the case for the aging Saints though.

Most importantly is St Kilda's best team would easily beat Collingwoods best team and has done the last 4 times.

But I think that Collingwood will beat St.Kilda at least once this season.

I do not care if you were missing players, or were fielding the youngest finals side in 1.6 millions years, you cannot beat us and haven't done so, even with us having 3 players being injured throughout the last game.

Collingwood can't beat St.Kilda you say? Ha ha ha! Collingwood has beaten St.Kilda 149 times, and lost only 54 times. Since the beginning of 2007, Collingwood has beaen St.Kilda 3 times, and lost 4 times. Therefore I think it's quite fair to state that Collingwood can beat St.Kilda of course. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story though.

 

[FuManchu]

Is that a question or a statement? If it's a question, then I obviously give a shit, otherwise I wouldn't have made mention of it. The reason that I give a shit is quite obvious, and that is St.Kilda relies on their oldies. Collingwood does not. With the exception of maybe Dane Swan (only 26 years old), Luke Ball (only 26 years old) and Alan Didak (27 years old), Collingwood's most important players are 23 years of age or younger, and that is what truly determines the age of a team. That's certainly not the case for the aging Saints though.But I think that Collingwood will beat St.Kilda at least once this season.Collingwood can't beat St.Kilda you say? Ha ha ha! Collingwood has beaten St.Kilda 149 times, and lost only 54 times. Since the beginning of 2007, Collingwood has beaen St.Kilda 3 times, and lost 4 times. Therefore I think it's quite fair to state that Collingwood can beat St.Kilda of course. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story though.

ohh gawd!!!!

LOL

 

[Gumblestar]

Embarass themselves every finals series. Miserable club that has failure instilled in them. Will never win anything with this list except more ridicule.

 

[Jimbo88]

Is that a question or a statement? If it's a question, then I obviously give a shit, otherwise I wouldn't have made mention of it. The reason that I give a shit is quite obvious, and that is St.Kilda relies on their oldies. Collingwood does not. With the exception of maybe Dane Swan (only 26 years old), Luke Ball (only 26 years old) and Alan Didak (27 years old), Collingwood's most important players are 23 years of age or younger, and that is what truly determines the age of a team. That's certainly not the case for the aging Saints though.

Yes but having better Under 23/s doesn't mean anything in the context of this season, it actually says more about Collingwood overacheiving. That just means we had success in drafting at different times in the last decade. Our core are now 25+ and hitting their peak while your core is still a couple of years away from this. I am one who thinks that Collingwood will be a very good team in a couple of years.... but right now as proven by results both Geelong and St Kilda are ahead of Collingwood and I think that this will be the case for the rest of the year.

But I think that Collingwood will beat St.Kilda at least once this season.

You said this all through last year as well, were did that get you?

Collingwood can't beat St.Kilda you say? Ha ha ha! Collingwood has beaten St.Kilda 149 times, and lost only 54 times. Since the beginning of 2007, Collingwood has beaen St.Kilda 3 times, and lost 4 times. Therefore I think it's quite fair to state that Collingwood can beat St.Kilda of course. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story though.

I am well aware of your past record over us, but I meant that this current Collingwood team finds it hard to beat this current St Kilda team. Also it is common knowledge how much our team has changed since 2007/2008 so I don't really care for results 3 years ago. We are 3/3 since the start of last year which is 18 months which even then may be too long a period to judge due to how much teams change in short periods of time (see Freo).

 

[Old Spice]

Embarass themselves every finals series. Miserable club that has failure instilled in them. Will never win anything with this list except more ridicule.

Yeah, 1990 was horrible.

 

[Gumblestar]

Yeah, 1990 was horrible.

Going back 20 years is all you can do. Like the look of Beams, Sidebottom but not enough talent to push past a prelim. Ironic thing is if you had somehow gotten up against the Cats in 07 you may well have stolen the flag.

 

[Old Spice]

Going back 20 years is all you can do. Like the look of Beams, Sidebottom but not enough talent to push past a prelim. Ironic thing is if you had somehow gotten up against the Cats in 07 you may well have stolen the flag.

Is it? Maybe we're suffering vertigo from being in the top half of the ladder for so long.

 

[rgill]

After todays game...NO

the usual suspects are soft as butter and 'front running' seems to be a title that springs to mind when ever that clubs named is mentioned..

take nothing away from the Dee's they played some great footy using the corridor, whilst the Pies seemed more intent on going wide and flooding at every opportunity...

Are the Pies that good?

On the last 3 weeks results - it seems not. But we are only half-way there!

 

[The Kipster]

On the last 3 weeks results - it seems not. But we are only half-way there!

and that is a valid point gilly......you hope that the softness in some of your players recedes like Josh Frasers hair before the big stuff in September.

 

[KissStephanie]

Not whilst Salty is in charge.

In Round 12, St.Kilda were older and more experienced than Collingwood. St.Kilda has been older every round this year so far, and more experienced in most of those.

and more experienced, in fact they are in the top 4 most experienced teams.

Collingwood are younger and less experienced than St.Kilda, which is all I had ever said until you decided to inaccurately dispute that. Why didn't you just accept that and let it go?

So when you play your more experienced players, the team is more experienced, I'll buy that.

But my point is that Collingwood don't rely on their more experienced players. Leigh Brown, Tarkyn Lockyer and Shane O'Bree are either not in Collingwood's best team, or on the fringe of selection. Simon Prestigiacomo is the most important of those four players.

The fact that your ultra conservative coach goes with them when under pressure would indicate they aren't easily replaced, particularly when the pressure goes up.

Ross Lyon doesn't coach Collingwood. Collingwood has very good depth, and good form in the VFL and injuries opened the door for a few of those players in recent weeks. I still don't believe that Leigh Brown or Shane O'Bree are in Collingwood's best team, whilst Tarkyn Lockyer is on the fringe, even though he kicked 32 goals and was 7th in the Copeland Trophy last season.

Certainly they are all more important than Steven King but comparing apples with apples has never been your strong point.

Ha ha ha! You're a funny hypocrite. Steven King will be back in the St.Kilda team before the finals because as I showed in an earlier post, Ben McEvoy has not done enough yet to keep him out. Also, King has played six matches this season, which is the same as Shane O'Bree, who is currently not in Collingwood's team, and also Leigh Brown. It is more than Tarkyn Lockyer. King is more important to St.Kilda than Lockyer, L. Brown or O'Bree are to Collingwood.

I certainly concur that the more experienced Collingwood players are closer to the end of their careers than their St Kilda counterparts (Steven King aside).

Concur with what? I've never said that, so how did you come up with that? To the contrary actually, I stated that Collingwood do not rely on their older players as St.Kilda do at all. Steven King is in St.Kilda's best team in my opinion and he is nearly 32. Michael Gardiner is very important and he is 31. Stephen Milne, Lenny Hayes and Steven Baker are pretty important too, and they are over 30 as well. I'm glad Collingwood is not in that situation!

Wow, lucky for us the competition that counts is open aged

It's certainly a good thing for teams such as St.Kilda that rely on their oldies as they do.

though I would enjoy Melbourne thrashing Collingwood.

A Collingwood 23 and under team would beat Melbourne if last week's draw was any indication. Melbourne's best seven players were 26, 27, 22, 27, 20, 29 and 22 years of age respectively, which is only three players that are 23 or under. Collingwood's best seven players were 26, 30, 21, 22, 21, 23 and 19, which is five players that are 23 or under. Of St.Kilda's best seven players last week, only one was 23 or under, and two of them were over 30!

 

[AG]

A Collingwood 23 and under team would beat Melbourne if last week's draw was any indication. Melbourne's best seven players were 26, 27, 22, 27, 20, 29 and 22 years of age respectively, which is only three players that are 23 or under. Collingwood's best seven players were 26, 30, 21, 22, 21, 23 and 19, which is five players that are 23 or under. Of St.Kilda's best seven players last week, only one was 23 or under, and two of them were over 30!

Therefore Collingwood will win the flag.

 

[Dazb86]

Collingwood are a good consistent side. They seem to be able to get into full gear for big games too.

 

[Blue star]

They are a good and potentially very good team.
They can only put themselves in with a chance to win it by securing the double chance,which means top 4, from that position anything can happen,injury,form,depth etc
For mine,anyone who finishes top 4 must give themselves a chance to win it.
The cats are clear above 4 other sides,pies,saints,freo,and the dogs,whoever misses the 4th spot won't win it,as the double chance is to great an advantage.
To this point of the season I say the cats have to be fav to win it ,but flags are not won in June or July so teams can only position themselves with a shot to win it,saiNts are a worry because they seem to find a way to self destruct off field which may prove to be there undoing,bulldogs ditto with aker, freo just keep hanging in ,so they are giving thEmselves a chance,outside of these 5 teams forget it,they are only making up numbers.

 

[greening22]

They are a good and potentially very good team.
They can only put themselves in with a chance to win it by securing the double chance,which means top 4, from that position anything can happen,injury,form,depth etc
For mine,anyone who finishes top 4 must give themselves a chance to win it.
The cats are clear above 4 other sides,pies,saints,freo,and the dogs,whoever misses the 4th spot won't win it,as the double chance is to great an advantage.
To this point of the season I say the cats have to be fav to win it ,but flags are not won in June or July so teams can only position themselves with a shot to win it,saiNts are a worry because they seem to find a way to self destruct off field which may prove to be there undoing,bulldogs ditto with aker, freo just keep hanging in ,so they are giving thEmselves a chance,outside of these 5 teams forget it,they are only making up numbers.

Collingwood are a reasonable team. It can be a good team (and perhaps a very good team) when all their key players are on song and especially when they maintain a very high level of intensity and particularly tackling all across the ground; and specifically in the forward line.

However they have clear deficiencies in terms of a 2nd ruckman (Fraser is finished & Wood has not proven anything yet); a fast elite mid-fielder who can break the lines; a key forward who can be relied upon to score above 50 goals per year; and finally they need an alternative game plan when Plan A does not work. In fact they most likely need not only a Plan B, but a Plan C as well.

I think that they also have a problem with their goal-kicking as evidenced by recent games. The latter is not helped when their key forward, Travis Cloke, plays so far up the ground (a la Tarrant in his final years at the Pies) that when he does kick for goal he is either too far out, or far too wide out on the boundary. Moreover Cloke's goal-kicking problems reflect the problems that have afflicted the team generally. I wish that the club would hire Peter McKenna or Peter Daicos as their goal-kicking coach, ASAP.

Finally, they also have a problem when it comes to beating teams that they should win such as recently Brisbane and Melbourne. Whether this is an over-confidence problem or a lack of respect for their opponents, I am not sure, but it is a real and recurring problem. or

 

[KissStephanie]

Yes but having better Under 23/s doesn't mean anything in the context of this season, it actually says more about Collingwood overacheiving.

Ha ha ha! Teams can't "overachieve!" It's physically impossible, and it's one of the more ridiculous things I've heard. What it means is that Collingwood's players that are 23 and under are very good players that should be around for quite some time. St.Kilda on the other hand does not have that luxury because they rely on their oldies so much. Also, it is still to be determined if having the better players that are 23 and under means anything regarding this season, and there are about 14 weeks left to find that out.

I am one who thinks that Collingwood will be a very good team in a couple of years.... but right now as proven by results both Geelong and St Kilda are ahead of Collingwood and I think that this will be the case for the rest of the year.

Right now, Geelong is six premiership points ahead on the ladder, and St.Kilda is two premiership points ahead. That is the difference, and one of those two teams will lose this week, whilst Collingwood are slight favourites to beat Sydney this week, and will be strongly favoured to beat West Coast and Port Adelaide in the following two weeks. Collingwood has only played one team that is the bottom five on the current ladder (none of the bottom three). St.Kilda has had the luxury of having played four of the bottom five teams so far, including each of the bottom three teams.

You said this all through last year as well, were did that get you?

When??? I certainly did not, so please do not make things up like that! I had said that Collingwood is capable of beating St.Kilda if things go well, which did not include Scott Pendlebury breaking his leg in the opening minutes of the Qualifying Final, but I certainly did not say that Collingwood will beat St.Kilda at any stage last year as I am saying now though.

I am well aware of your past record over us, but I meant that this current Collingwood team finds it hard to beat this current St Kilda team.

St.Kilda has been more advanced in recent times because they're older and more experienced, but Collingwood can beat them, and I think that will happen at least once this season.

Also it is common knowledge how much our team has changed since 2007/2008 so I don't really care for results 3 years ago.

Come on now! In 2007, St.Kilda were relying on the same players as they are now to perform with the exception of Robert Harvey and Luke Ball. Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Hayes, Milne, Montagna, Gram, Fisher, Koschitzke and Goddard were their most important players then as they are now.

We are 3/3 since the start of last year which is 18 months which even then may be too long a period to judge due to how much teams change in short periods of time (see Freo).

I think in the case of St.Kilda, then going back to 2007 is very reasonable because their important players were involved then, just as it is regarding Geelong when they won the first of their two recent premierships. In that period of time, Collingwood has won 3 and lost 4 against St.Kilda.

 

[Smoky]

Is this thread really that good???

 

[BACCS]

Is this thread really that good???

Not really, but are many these days?

 

[absfab]

.When??? I certainly did not, so please do not make things up like that! I had said that Collingwood is capable of beating St.Kilda if things go well, which did not include Scott Pendlebury breaking his leg in the opening minutes of the Qualifying Final,

Liar liar pants on fire.

You jumped all over the throw away line by some dopey minor journalist that Collingwood were flag favorites in August 2009.

And defended it to the death with the oh so familiar point by point verbal discharge we have all come to know and gag over.

 

[jayjones1]

ha i love KissStephanie you make me laugh

 

[KissStephanie]

Liar liar pants on fire.

Were your nuts burnt off?

You jumped all over the throw away line by some dopey minor journalist that Collingwood were flag favorites in August 2009.

Firstly, Collingwood were actually equal premiership favourites after Round 21 of last season, and that was because they had won 12 of the previous 13 matches and had the highest percentage of all teams in that period of time. It was absolutely not a "throw away line from from some dopey minor journalist" as you put it. Some people are either very ignorant, have very poor memories, or they make things up to suit themselves. Which of those three are you?

Secondly, I did not jump all over anything, so please do not lie and make things up to suit yourself because I have little tolerance for that. I stated at the time that Collingwood were capable of winning the premiership if things went well, which is what I said in my previous post before you inaccurately accused me of being a liar regarding that.

And defended it to the death with the oh so familiar point by point verbal discharge we have all come to know and gag over.

Why don't you just speak for yourself? Are you too gutless to do that? If you feel so strongly, then why do you read my posts at all? That doesn't make any sense. It's not difficult to ignore them if they make you feel that way. You obviously have nothing to say, and I cannot remember ever reading a single post of yours in the past, so I don't think I'm going to miss much by not reading any more of yours in the future. Actions speak louder than words.

ha i love KissStephanie you make me laugh

Well you really set me straight on each of my points. I don't know who you are, but it would seem that you haven't read many of my posts because I did notice you have posted only ten times since October of last year, and you have had very little to say in any of them. It was evident that you aren't particularly fond of Collingwood though, and some people are amused by things that many people do not find funny. Do you also laugh when someone holds a finger up in front of you? I wouldn't be surprised if you did.

 

[Football God]

we're 4th and could be 2nd-3rd depending on results! must be doing something right!

 

[soho]