Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

plenty
do you understand Aramaic?

• "Talitha cumi” in Mark 5:41
• “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” in Mark 15:34
• “Ephphatha”in Mark 7:34
• “Abba” in Mark 14:36

Uh no. Vast majority of NT scholars see this preservation of Aramaic words as evidence for those stories coming in from a very early Aramaic oral tradition (predates Jesus actually). Almost everything this is so called 'Jesus' is reported to have said is reported in Greek, except these phrases which revolve around healing miracles and, it is argued (convincingly in my opinion) were incantations and thus were preserved in the Aramaic because the sounds were the magic.

Read the book Jesus the Magician, you will know why these words were preserved.

 

[Total Power]

Science is the study of the handiwork of God.

Who can't even make the end of word prediction? has he returned yet as promised to his followers that the so called 'generation' will not pass till 'Son of Man' returns? how long is a generation according to you?

Handiwork, gimme a break. Can't even get an original creation story for starters.

 

[Total Power]

Furthermore, you’re ignoring what has been pointed out to you several times in this thread. The process of evolution is not random. It is the combination of a quasi-random process (mutation) and a non-random process (selection). Combine the two, add a huge amount of time, and the chance of ending up vaguely where we are now is much higher than your intuition tells you.

You are better off arguing against a wall, apparently microevolution is shit and 'random mutation' means it's totally random. I have had it with him before and it all comes from a lack of understanding. Save your breath.

 

[Total Power]

The first cause

Why not just let the big bang be the uncaused cause? quantum fluctuation? Kalam Cosmological argument is bogus, it's more like special pleading. Nowhere in science it says there was 'nothing' to begin with. Why so desperate to insert the middle man?

 

[evolved2]

I know this is an athiests thread, but : are all religions equal? Pope Francis created a stir with some off-the-cuff comments to an interreligious group of young people in Singapore, during his recent trip to Asia. “All religions are paths to God,” he said. “I will use an analogy, they are like different languages that express the divine.”

Some are worse than others as judged by negative impact across the globe. I'd say Islam is the worst followed by Christianity.

 

[evolved2]

What I am saying is it is such a low probability event that i find it hard to believe.

Every possible combination of genetics and phenotype has low probability. If we evolved differently, it would be equally improbable as what is now. That doesn't mean magic caused it.

The evidence in multiple fields of science points towards the evolution of our species and other lifeforms on earth. It being improbable doesn't impact the facts and evidence that point to it as being true.

If you think magic man in the sky is a better explanation, it only points to your ignorance on the topic.

 

[Total Power]

Every possible combination of genetics and phenotype has low probability. If we evolved differently, it would be equally improbable as what is now. That doesn't mean magic caused it.

The evidence in multiple fields of science points towards the evolution of our species and other lifeforms on earth. It being improbable doesn't impact the facts and evidence that point to it as being true.

If you think magic man in the sky is a better explanation, it only points to your ignorance on the topic.

This 'small chance' argument is astonishingly stupid. I mean yu were 1 in 250 million sperm combined with one egg. Thats NOTEVEN close to the chance of making you though. A woman has an estimated 2 million eggs, and a man produces an estimated 525 billion sperm in a lifetime. The probability of any single combination of egg and sperm is around 1 in 1050000000000. That's 1 in a trillion, which is vanishingly small. And thats not even counting all of the other possibilities that might have led to your parents never meeting in the first place. What would be the probability of you existing right now?

 

[evolved2]

This 'small chance' argument is astonishingly stupid. I mean yu were 1 in 250 million sperm combined with one egg. Thats NOTEVEN close to the chance of making you though. A woman has an estimated 2 million eggs, and a man produces an estimated 525 billion sperm in a lifetime. The probability of any single combination of egg and sperm is around 1 in 1050000000000. That's 1 in a trillion, which is vanishingly small. And thats not even counting all of the other possibilities that might have led to your parents never meeting in the first place. What would be the probability of you existing right now?

Big odds you say? Well obviously goddidit!

 

[western royboy]

Some are worse than others as judged by negative impact across the globe. I'd say Islam is the worst followed by Christianity.

No - all are equally as bad - take your bias away and they are all the same

 

[Roylion]

You're jumping the gun and assuming the mutation is viable in the first place. A highly unlikely event.

Mutation occurs all the time. We can observe this through genome sequencing for example.

Evolution via random genetic mutation is by definition random.

Except that genetic mutation is only part of the evolutionary process. Natural selection is not random.

Discussing mutations based on the needs of the organism is an attempt to remove the randomness and suggests your arguing for evolution by random genetic mutation by removing random genetic mutation.

Grey Monroe, an assistant professor in the UC Davis Department of Plant Sciences who was lead author on a 2022 paper, published in the science journal Nature suggests that mutations aren't as random as once thought. "It turns out that mutation is very non-random and it’s non-random in a way that benefits the plant. It’s a totally new way of thinking about mutation." They effectively found that there were fewer mutations in essential genes.

The DNA that just appears out of nowhere?

Simply, scientists believe the first step towards life was simply a molecule that was capable of self-replicating.

The process is speculated to go something likes the following. Individual nucleotides formed spontaneously in the chaotic soup that was simmering on the primordial earth, and eventually, these nucleotides bonded together to form RNA. Unstable RNAs quickly broke down, but stable molecules grew and finally, self-copying RNA formed. Some RNAs were better at copying themselves than others, so they persisted and became more abundant. RNA-based life eventually switched to DNA to take advantage of its stability, which makes it better at storing genetic information.

A 2015 paper from a a team of chemists working at the MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, at Cambridge in the UK, published in the journal Nature Chemistry, showed that the chemical precursors for the synthesis of amino acids, lipids and nucleotides, which would be required in a primitive cell, could have all arisen simultaneously through reactions driven by ultraviolet light.

In 2015, NASA scientists studying the origin of life managed to reproduce uracil, cytosine, and thymine (all building blocks of life) from an ice sample containing pyrimidine under conditions found in space.

 

[Boston tiger]

Either way … from a Big Bang to “Our Father who art in heaven”.. it’s been quite the journey for some rocks and stuff.

 

[Vdubs]

I have deep objections to ALL claims of exclusivity. My religion, my belief is the right belief is what all religions do. When has it ever been different, outside of Buddhism, they are pretty much all the same.

Not to mention there is NO honest reason for a claim of us needing salvation. the claim is based on a absurd construct of Christianity, that of Original Sin. There is no concept of OS in the Hebrew Bible or OT. In Judaism, the religion of Jesus, we are not born tainted with sin but pure and innocent with no need of a saviour. This odd concept originated with Augustine in the 3rd century but it has no basis in fact. If it did, it would be part of Judaism as well, but it is not.

Playing on human insecurity and fear, is the oldest trick in the book to get someone to follow you. See Donald Trump, the brown guys are coming here to take your jobs and rape your women. Vote for me and i will be your savior, i will stop the wars and Make America Great Again.

Replace Trump with a divine object and you get an Abhramic God.

Trump is the antichrist

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I have a hangover today. I was watching a bit of telly, flicking through and the U.S version of Family Feud was on. Never really watched it before but... hangover. Anyway, I notice the way he drapes his arm around female contestants when looking at the survey and the two girls on the segment I saw didn't look comfortable at all. I notice that kind of vibe about it all. The 'info' button on my remote says his name is Steve Harvey so I switch off and google him.

Wow. His religious views are... interesting.



And this paragon of devoutness cheated on all three of his wives!

EDIT: I can't substantiate this cheating claim (I read it elsewhere) so to cover myself legally I'm gonna strike it through as unverified. The video still speaks for itself regardless!

 

[Vdubs]

So you believe that humans (and other life forms) are the result of time and evolution?

God, and time, and evolution.

 

[Vdubs]

I don’t believe in any entity that:

- deliberately and purposefully designed the planet we live on

- that has a special place in its heart for the human race

- that is omnipotent and omniscient

- that is vengeful and vain, demands we worship it, yet chooses to reveal itself in a piecemeal and opaque fashion

Nevertheless, you choosing not to believe does nothing about the possibility God is the Creator. How you as a human interpret God's role, purpose, MO is limited by you alone.

 

[liz]

Nevertheless, you choosing not to believe does nothing about the possibility God is the Creator. How you as a human interpret God's role, purpose, MO is limited by you alone.

I agree that neither of our beliefs in the existence of a god affects whether one exists.

Similarly, my belief that the Earth is approximately spherical and revolves around our sun has no effect on whether the Earth actually is spherical and revolves around our sun.

 

[liz]

God, and time, and evolution.

So if you allow for time and evolution, why do you think your God has a special place in its heart and mind for humans? Or is there also a heaven and hell for possums? For goldfish? For dinosaurs? For amoeba? For jacaranda trees? For the coronavirus? And do all the strains of the coronavirus share the same heaven and hell? Or is there a separate one for each?

 

[travelli]

No - all are equally as bad - take your bias away and they are all the same

Equally as bad means equally as good i suppose.

I just think that is monumental that someone like the pope is saying all religions are valid

 

[western royboy]

Equally as bad means equally as good i suppose.

I just think that is monumental that someone like the pope is saying all religions are valid

The Pope - one of the biggest frauds on the earth - in Trump territory for hypocrisy and downright deceit

 

[evolved2]

No - all are equally as bad - take your bias away and they are all the same

Some are more tame than others - Buddhism for instance isn't nearly the threat to world peace that Christianity and Islam are.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Some are more tame than others - Buddhism for instance isn't nearly the threat to world peace that Christianity and Islam are.

Sure but Myanmar shows Buddhists are just as capable of persecuting others as much any other religious group.

 

[Vdubs]

So if you allow for time and evolution, why do you think your God has a special place in its heart and mind for humans? Or is there also a heaven and hell for possums? For goldfish? For dinosaurs? For amoeba? For jacaranda trees? For the coronavirus? And do all the strains of the coronavirus share the same heaven and hell? Or is there a separate one for each?

Man was created in God's image (man=humankind)

 

[Vdubs]

Uh no. Vast majority of NT scholars see this preservation of Aramaic words as evidence for those stories coming in from a very early Aramaic oral tradition (predates Jesus actually). Almost everything this is so called 'Jesus' is reported to have said is reported in Greek, except these phrases which revolve around healing miracles and, it is argued (convincingly in my opinion) were incantations and thus were preserved in the Aramaic because the sounds were the magic.

Read the book Jesus the Magician, you will know why these words were preserved.

Show us the Greek words He spoke. That may appeal to your CC mate.

 

[Roylion]

Man was created in God's image (man=humankind)

God was created in man's image.

 

[Vdubs]

CS fails to recognise that compassion and empathy are the backbone of any ‘universal morality’ - not some god. As for a system that created it, it’s evolution that favored compassion and morality in our species - our ancestors who were more compassionate and empathetic likely helped each other more => better survival => more opportunities to procreate, better survival of their kids’ kids.

The same reason you (and most other Christians) do not take certain verses literally (or figurately) cause it might have been true at that time but now it's plain absurd, as our social norms have changed. Slavery is inhumane, misogyny is unacceptable, atheists are not really evil, masturbation is not a sin etc etc. Some 2,000 years ago 99% of them would have agreed with these but now how many? Morality is not universal.

This is why CS said If jesus claims he was the son of God, he either is or a liar. Whoa slow down professor, why two choices when you arrived at your opinion through Pascals Wager basically?

CS Lewis came from an atheistic mindset. He had experienced significant suffering- lost his mother at 9yo, many WW2 shrapnel injuries, lost his wife to cancer....
Initially, like many non believers, he thought "how could God allow such suffering, if He even existed".
But with his own reading, and his brilliant mind, he discovered a very alternate way to view the world, and became theisitic. His leap of faith to full-on Christianity is described beautifully in Mere Christianity.
His empathy and compassion are certainly evident in A Grief Observed- watching his wife die with bowel cancer. What you describe as lack of empathy possibly relates to The Problem Of Pain, if you have bothered to read it, it is a brilliant exposition of how we are meant to rationalise pain and suffering.
C S Lewis was a brilliant writer and Uni lecturer. He was not a traditional Christian, in that he smoked and drank, but his impact on the Christianity movement was and still is profound. He was against the notion that writings from history are obsolete. All your comments about norms and mores are partly relevant, as is the likelihood that evolution has occurred after God's Creationist starting point.