Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I think no-one has put my perspective better than country singer Iris DeMent, in her song Let The Mystery Be:


Everybody is wondering what and where they all came from
Everybody is worrying 'bout
Where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done
But no one knows for certain and so it's all the same to me
I think I'll just let the mystery be

Some say once you're gone you're gone forever
And some say you're gonna come back
Some say you rest in the arms of the Savior if in sinful ways you lack
Some say that they're coming back in a garden
Bunch of carrots and little sweet peas
I think I'll just let the mystery be

Everybody is wondering what and where they all came from
etc

Some say they're going to a place called Glory
And I ain't saying it ain't a fact
But I've heard that I'm on the road to purgatory
And I don't like the sound of that
I believe in love and I live my life accordingly
But I choose to let the mystery be

Everybody is wondering what and where they all came from
Everybody is worrying 'bout
Where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done
But no one knows for certain and so it's all the same to me
I think I'll just let the mystery be

I think I'll just let the mystery be

 

[Vdubs]

I think no-one has put my perspective better than country singer Iris DeMent, in her song Let The Mystery Be:


Everybody is wondering what and where they all came from
Everybody is worrying 'bout
Where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done
But no one knows for certain and so it's all the same to me
I think I'll just let the mystery be

Some say once you're gone you're gone forever
And some say you're gonna come back
Some say you rest in the arms of the Savior if in sinful ways you lack
Some say that they're coming back in a garden
Bunch of carrots and little sweet peas
I think I'll just let the mystery be

Everybody is wondering what and where they all came from
etc

Some say they're going to a place called Glory
And I ain't saying it ain't a fact
But I've heard that I'm on the road to purgatory
And I don't like the sound of that
I believe in love and I live my life accordingly
But I choose to let the mystery be

Everybody is wondering what and where they all came from
Everybody is worrying 'bout
Where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done
But no one knows for certain and so it's all the same to me
I think I'll just let the mystery be

I think I'll just let the mystery be

How about this from AJ Cronin?
Above all am I convinced of the need, irrevocable and inescapable, of every human heart, for God. No matter how we try to escape, to lose ourselves in restless seeking, we cannot separate ourselves from our divine source. There is no substitute for God.

And this from CS Lewis? From Mere Christianity.
is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in him. But the truth is, God has not told us what his arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ. We do not know that only those who know him can be saved through him. And in the meantime, if you are worried about the people outside, the most unreasonable thing you can do is to remain outside yourself.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

How about this from AJ Cronin?
Above all am I convinced of the need, irrevocable and inescapable, of every human heart, for God. No matter how we try to escape, to lose ourselves in restless seeking, we cannot separate ourselves from our divine source. There is no substitute for God.

And this from CS Lewis? From Mere Christianity.
is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in him. But the truth is, God has not told us what his arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ. We do not know that only those who know him can be saved through him. And in the meantime, if you are worried about the people outside, the most unreasonable thing you can do is to remain outside yourself.

CS Lewis is only kidding himself.

No, CS, we don’t know that by any stretch, and he has no business speaking for the rest of humanity.

AJ Cronin is convinced? I’m not. Neither are billions.

I think I’ll just let the mystery be.

 

[Gough]

CS Lewis also wrote about talking mammals and magic wardrobes, so in his mind a bloke turning water into wine then dying and coming back three days later might not seem as far fetched as it does to the others.

 

[Boston tiger]

One the reasons CS became a catholic was being a literary historian he couldn’t see how the gospels could have been made up.

“Another point is that on that view you would have to regard the accounts of the Man as being legends. Now, as a literary historian, I am perfectly convinced that whatever else the Gospels are they are not legends. I have read a great deal of legend and I am quite clear that they are not the same sort of thing. They are not artistic enough to be legends. From an imaginative point of view they are clumsy, they don’t work up to things properly. Most of the life of Jesus is totally unknown to us, as is the life of anyone else who lived at that time, and no people building up a legend would allow that to be so. Apart from bits of the Platonic dialogues, there are no conversations that I know of in ancient literature like the Fourth Gospel. There is nothing, even in modern literature, until about a hundred years ago when the realistic novel came into existence. In the story of the woman taken in adultery we are told Christ bent down and scribbled in the dust with His finger. Nothing comes of this. No one has ever based any doctrine on it. And the art of inventing little irrelevant details to make an imaginary scene more convincing is a purely modern art. Surely the only explanation of this passage is that the thing really happened? The author put it in simply because he had seen it.”
-C.S. Lewis, “What Are We to Make of Jesus Christ?“

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

One the reasons CS became a catholic was being a literary historian he couldn’t see how the gospels could have been made up.

“Another point is that on that view you would have to regard the accounts of the Man as being legends. Now, as a literary historian, I am perfectly convinced that whatever else the Gospels are they are not legends. I have read a great deal of legend and I am quite clear that they are not the same sort of thing. They are not artistic enough to be legends. From an imaginative point of view they are clumsy, they don’t work up to things properly. Most of the life of Jesus is totally unknown to us, as is the life of anyone else who lived at that time, and no people building up a legend would allow that to be so. Apart from bits of the Platonic dialogues, there are no conversations that I know of in ancient literature like the Fourth Gospel. There is nothing, even in modern literature, until about a hundred years ago when the realistic novel came into existence. In the story of the woman taken in adultery we are told Christ bent down and scribbled in the dust with His finger. Nothing comes of this. No one has ever based any doctrine on it. And the art of inventing little irrelevant details to make an imaginary scene more convincing is a purely modern art. Surely the only explanation of this passage is that the thing really happened? The author put it in simply because he had seen it.”
-C.S. Lewis, “What Are We to Make of Jesus Christ?“

Sure. Good point.

Doesn’t address the question of whether, for instance, those scribes were mistaken in interpreting what they believe they saw.

Doesn’t even begin to address the possibility that regardless of what this historical figure Jesus said, there simply is no god.

It’s perfectly possible that even if every account of Jesus’ life is 100% true and accurate, Jesus himself was wrong.

 

[carltonchelsea]

How about this from AJ Cronin?
Above all am I convinced of the need, irrevocable and inescapable, of every human heart, for God. No matter how we try to escape, to lose ourselves in restless seeking, we cannot separate ourselves from our divine source. There is no substitute for God.

And this from CS Lewis? From Mere Christianity.
is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in him. But the truth is, God has not told us what his arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ. We do not know that only those who know him can be saved through him. And in the meantime, if you are worried about the people outside, the most unreasonable thing you can do is to remain outside yourself.

Paedophillia is an expensive business ain’t it?!

L.A. Catholic Church payouts for clergy abuse top $1.5 billion with new record settlement

The Archdiocese of Los Angeles has agreed to pay $880 million to victims of clergy sexual abuse in the largest settlement involving the Catholic Church.

www.latimes.com

 

[evolved2]

One the reasons CS became a catholic was being a literary historian he couldn’t see how the gospels could have been made up.

“Another point is that on that view you would have to regard the accounts of the Man as being legends. Now, as a literary historian, I am perfectly convinced that whatever else the Gospels are they are not legends. I have read a great deal of legend and I am quite clear that they are not the same sort of thing. They are not artistic enough to be legends. From an imaginative point of view they are clumsy, they don’t work up to things properly. Most of the life of Jesus is totally unknown to us, as is the life of anyone else who lived at that time, and no people building up a legend would allow that to be so. Apart from bits of the Platonic dialogues, there are no conversations that I know of in ancient literature like the Fourth Gospel. There is nothing, even in modern literature, until about a hundred years ago when the realistic novel came into existence. In the story of the woman taken in adultery we are told Christ bent down and scribbled in the dust with His finger. Nothing comes of this. No one has ever based any doctrine on it. And the art of inventing little irrelevant details to make an imaginary scene more convincing is a purely modern art. Surely the only explanation of this passage is that the thing really happened? The author put it in simply because he had seen it.”
-C.S. Lewis, “What Are We to Make of Jesus Christ?“

CS Lewis is a great fiction writer, but his apologetics aren't convincing.

Christians spend their lives trying to erase doubt from their consciousness. They think that if someone of the caliber of CS Lewis believes, it adds credence to their faith - "it must be true if he believes".

I am firmly convinced that believers struggle internally with the many contradictions that exist within their faith. It's an unwinnable battle.

That is a battle I don't struggle with at all. Given there's no objective evidence for the existence of a god and I don't operate under the threat of punishment for non-belief, I have the freedom to explore ideas, concepts, and a search for truth without trying to push out doubt or disbelief.

Disbelief isn't the enemy of truth, it's the source of truth.

It doesn't matter to me whether the people and places in the bible existed or not, nor does it matter if Jesus scribbled in the dirt. The point that matters is whether the magic is real or not - and there's simply zero evidence of it.

 

[Boston tiger]

CS Lewis is a great fiction writer, but his apologetics aren't convincing.

Christians spend their lives trying to erase doubt from their consciousness. They think that if someone of the caliber of CS Lewis believes, it adds credence to their faith - "it must be true if he believes".

I am firmly convinced that believers struggle internally with the many contradictions that exist within their faith. It's an unwinnable battle.

That is a battle I don't struggle with at all. Given there's no objective evidence for the existence of a god and I don't operate under the threat of punishment for non-belief, I have the freedom to explore ideas, concepts, and a search for truth without trying to push out doubt or disbelief.

Disbelief isn't the enemy of truth, it's the source of truth.

It doesn't matter to me whether the people and places in the bible existed or not, nor does it matter if Jesus scribbled in the dirt. The point that matters is whether the magic is real or not - and there's simply zero evidence of it.

Firmly convinced.. love it. I’m firmly convinced that atheists are just a weird little genetic sub set of humanity that can’t see a big picture

 

[carltonchelsea]

Firmly convinced.. love it. I’m firmly convinced that atheists are just a weird little genetic sub set of humanity that can’t see a big picture

You’re projecting again sweetie!

 

[Vdubs]

CS Lewis is a great fiction writer, but his apologetics aren't convincing.

Christians spend their lives trying to erase doubt from their consciousness. They think that if someone of the caliber of CS Lewis believes, it adds credence to their faith - "it must be true if he believes".

I am firmly convinced that believers struggle internally with the many contradictions that exist within their faith. It's an unwinnable battle.

That is a battle I don't struggle with at all. Given there's no objective evidence for the existence of a god and I don't operate under the threat of punishment for non-belief, I have the freedom to explore ideas, concepts, and a search for truth without trying to push out doubt or disbelief.

Disbelief isn't the enemy of truth, it's the source of truth.

It doesn't matter to me whether the people and places in the bible existed or not, nor does it matter if Jesus scribbled in the dirt. The point that matters is whether the magic is real or not - and there's simply zero evidence of it.

You also can NOT disprove God. The fact that CS Lewis was, like Paul, an atheist, does give us the notion that there is hope for all thinking, respectful atheists. Just because "science based", simplistic and humanistic minds can not accept the possibility of God, the fact that it is real for many people, that peoples lives have been permanently and dramatically changed has to be respected. The lives of the apostles were changed radically. You choose to dismiss, deny, or ignore that, but it is what set up Christianity.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Firmly convinced.. love it. I’m firmly convinced that atheists are just a weird little genetic sub set of humanity that can’t see a big picture

It’s pretty simple. Humans have evolved to a point unique on earth, where we understand our own mortality.

Once we grasped that, it was not unreasonable to assume there must be some greater point to life.

In comes spirituality and religion. Lots of good evolutionary reasons for religion, back when we simply had no other explanation for how the universe functions.

But since the onset of the Enlightenment, the religious explanation of the world has been found wanting with increasing rapidity. It simply can’t compete with the avalanche of scientific discovery.

We’ll never understand everything purely through science. There are many things that are simply impossible for humans to know.

But what is clear is we’ll understand more about the universe (the true “big picture”), and understand it quicker, than we ever will through religion.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You also can NOT disprove God. The fact that CS Lewis was, like Paul, an atheist, does give us the notion that there is hope for all thinking, respectful atheists. Just because "science based", simplistic and humanistic minds can not accept the possibility of God, the fact that it is real for many people, that peoples lives have been permanently and dramatically changed has to be respected. The lives of the apostles were changed radically. You choose to dismiss, deny, or ignore that, but it is what set up Christianity.

Sorry, there is nothing “simplistic” about a scientific understanding of the world.

And your definition of “real” is conveniently generous. Just because someone perceives something inside their head does not for one moment make it “real” to one single other human being on the planet.

 

[sdfc]

The theory of random genetic mutation to explain evolution on the micro scale is a bit too shit happens to have me convinced. It seems to be mathematically highly improbable.

 

[Vdubs]

Sorry, there is nothing “simplistic” about a scientific understanding of the world.

And your definition of “real” is conveniently generous. Just because someone perceives something inside their head does not for one moment make it “real” to one single other human being on the planet.

You saying you're an atheist is just as " real ". Very convenient and simple.. No God. End of story. You are free to do what you want. But your questions will never be answered by science.

AND, the more testimonies I hear about people who discover God and Christianity, the more it confirms the reality of these conversions for all of us. So, you are incorrect, IT IS real for very many people.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You saying you're an atheist is just as " real ". Very convenient and simple.. No God. End of story. You are free to do what you want. But your questions will never be answered by science.

AND, the more testimonies I hear about people who discover God and Christianity, the more it confirms the reality of these conversions for all of us. So, you are incorrect, IT IS real for very many people.

Do they just discover 'God' on their own? Or is it more common for religious groups to indoctrinate them?

 

[carltonchelsea]

You also can NOT disprove God.

This is called shifting the burden.
A very cheap seat at the house of rule!
My side doesn’t claim to understand the rules of the universe.
But, worked them out!
You “believe” lol, in fairytales!

 

[Vdubs]

Do they just discover 'God' on their own? Or is it more common for religious groups to indoctrinate them?

People have a yearning for the meaning of life, all the big questions, unanswered by the scientists, philosophers, humanists, and God is there for those who seek Him.

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Hebrews 11:6

 

[Vdubs]

This is called shifting the burden.
A very cheap seat at the house of rule!
My side doesn’t claim to understand the rules of the universe.
But, worked them out!
You “believe” lol, in fairytales!

You can convince yourself of that as long as you live.

But respect for your civility.

 

[western royboy]

People have a yearning for the meaning of life, all the big questions, unanswered by the scientists, philosophers, humanists, and God is there for those who seek Him.

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Hebrews 11:6

Mmm…I don’t think that works for the majority

 

[Chief]

God is there for those who seek Him.

This is the God of Gaps.

If you don't know - god!

 

[Todman]

This is the God of Gaps.

If you don't know - god!

" If God is everywhere, is he also in Hell?"

 

[Chief]

" If God is everywhere, is he also in Hell?"

He was in the room with Gerald Ridsdale. Every second of every minute of every day.

 

[Todman]

He was in the room with Gerald Ridsdale. Every second of every minute of every day.

I had friends who were too close to Father Ridsdale. His world fell when someone put graffiti on the local church. That got the parishioners talking and then some of them went to the Police station and all gave statements.

 

[Chief]

Im sure it was God who guided the hand of the person who applied the graffiti.