Atmosphere at the soccer better?

[3kzisfootball]

I followed the Socceroos during the WC, but by the end of it I was disgusted by the whole culture around soccer and its views of other sports. The amount of times I heard some self righteous ********er proclaiming that Australia had 'woken up' to the world game, as if we'd somehow just discovered this game and seen the cultural light. Soccer is the only game that -every- Australian is familiar with. Noone was 'waking up' or discovering anything - they were just supporting Australians on a world stage.

I agree with you there. Although it is great that some Australians that might have not appreciated soccer before has now discovered the joys of following the sport.

On top of that we've got soccer people changing the name of their game to 'football'. If that isn't a blatant attack on Australian culture I don't know what is. In every part of Australia, football already means something else - and in all cases its a tough, contact sport. In the aussie rules states, football only has one, very specific meaning. What incredible arrogance to purposely cause confusion and simply expect aussie rules football to change its name so that Australian soccer can feel a little less insecure in Britain, and to try and hoodwink Australians into thinking of soccer as a tough sport.

and for the record, i am tricodal

I can't agree with you that people wanting to call soccer 'football' is an attack on Australian culture.

Personally I couldn't care less whether it is called soccer, football or farnakling. As the Bard said:

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other word would smell as sweet."

In Italy for instance the code is not called football, but 'calcio' literally 'kick'.

However some soccer fans believe that calling soccer, that way is belittling the sport. If Rugby in Sydney can be called football and Aussie Rules can be called footbal in Melbourne why can't soccer (which is after all a sport where the ball is at the foot most of the time) be called football as well? Some supporters believe that it is a way of categorising it as an 'inferior un-Australian' code, where football is a 'real Aussie game' strong, robust etc. while soccer is that imported game played by cheating diving pansies.

Paranoia? Perhaps. However to pretend that there's only one football played across Australia, and that's the Aussie Rules or Rugby version, isn't true, even if Australia comprised only land south of the Murray. There are many footballs played here. None deserves exclusive use of the term.

I think that most sport fans smart enough to work out which football is being referred to, based on the context. Whenever someone from Melbourne Storm says football, we know rugby league is being referred to. If it's a Wallaby, we know it's rugby union. If it's in an article about AFL, we know it's Aussie Rules. In stories about the football of Darren Bennett and Ben Graham, we know it's the NFL type. And whenever Muscat writes about football, we know it's association football.

I think that football fans are not insisting that no other sport can be called football. they only believe that soccer also be allowed to call itself football.

That's all.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Also I don't agree with you in regards to SBS. I think that it is perfectly fine for it to have more soccer that other media outlets. We have a taxpayer funded ABC which constantly promotes AFL. And of course heaps of AFL on the commercial channels. So it is good that SBS looks after those taxpayers that like soccer, which is not an unsubstantial number across Australia, because without them the amount of the code shown on free to air TV would be zilch.

I would also disagree that SBS almost totally snubs Australian Rules. 'World Sport' always reported on the AFL and had a special section about it every Friday. But also as the title says 'Special Broadcasting' the charter of the station is to show stuff which is not covered by other outlets of the media, and there is lots of AFL shown on other TV stations.

Well I will be proved wrong if SBS decides to agree to show AFL games in Qld and NSW! I regularly watch the World Sport show and enjoy it but I strongly suspect that its very limited coverage of the sport is also as a result of the fact that the network is Sydney based. I don't have any stats but the NRL and Super 14 comps and teams seem to both get substantially more coverage than the AFL. I enjoy watching the Champions League and the World Game show and I am glad SBS show them but my main concern has been the World Sports show which I think could be a bit more balanced (after all viewers in NSW and Qld do not enjoy substantial news coverage of the AFL from the FTA stations early in the evening). As for Australian soccer, bear in mind it was the FFA's decision to give exclusive rights to all A-League games and many Socceroo games to Foxtel - the lack of FTA exposure of the domestic game results from that. I can't say that I agree that the ABC constantly promotes Australian Football - it usually gives pretty wide coverage to many sports (including soccer) on its nightly news. It does telecast state league games in Vic, SA, WA and NT but there's a reasonably strong following for this in these areas which isn't matched by any other state-based competitions. I certainly don't expect SBS to provide news coverage of the AFL to the same extent as the other FTA stations in the game's heartland but just think they could devote a bit more effort than what they have be doing for years.

 

[LightTower4]

However some soccer fans believe that calling soccer, that way is belittling the sport.

Victorians have always called Aussie Rules 'Footy' and League 'Rugby'.
New South Welshman have always called League 'Footy' and Aussie Rules 'Rules'.
None of the above has ever had a problem with the other doing what they do. The common denominator is both have always called soccer 'soccer'.

Along come fans with soccer as their number 1 code (and I have no problems with that) up in arms about calling it soccer! Get over it!
Call it what you like but if you want the mainstream public to call soccer 'football' go live in Europe.

I'd like to know if this debate rages in the USA where Gridiron is referred to as 'football'. They too call soccer 'soccer'.

 

[Grunty]

All these soccer fans playing the innocent victims. I got news for you - people are defensive because soccer is aggressive towards other sports.

I think the aggression is and always has been more against soccer, especially from ageing sports writers who see their cosy little world being eroded by a younger generation who are not as blinkered.

But today's aggression towards soccer is nothing compared to what soccer followers have been subjected to in previous decades, as shown in the Australian Sports Commission article.



Ethnic Involvement in Australian Soccer: A History 1950–1990.
By Philip Mosely. Australian Sports Commission, 1995.

For decades soccer’s rivals had cruised along with virtually no competition. However with each new season in the 1950s they grew restive and even reactionary over soccer’s growth.

The strongest responses were found in the Australian Rules states. Particular schools banned soccer and education authorities in charge of school sport were known to hinder the game as best they knew how.

For example, staff at White Hills Technical School, Bendigo did not so much ban soccer outright as ban instead the use of school funds for soccer equipment.

As early as 1951 buckets of glass were scattered on North Hobart Oval the night before a Tasmanian representative side took the field against a visiting English Professional XI.

Next season the VFL directed its operatives to secure all available public sporting space in Melbourne in order to stifle the burgeoning threat posed by soccer’s migrant-inspired growth.

Similar moves had been made in 1927 and 1928 when British migrants so rattled the VFL that it wrote “with alarm” of this “foreign code”.

The 1950s boom in migration promised to be far more of a problem than that of the 1920s.

In 1958 a Melbourne soccer club sought to lease a council ground usually used by an Australian Rules club. The response to the application was

“Let them play in the gutter”.

Melbourne’s reputation for soccer paranoia was crowned in 1965 when youths daubed anti-soccer slogans over Middle Park, chopped down the goalposts and tried to set fire to the grandstand.

 

[Grunty]

How about a fews year back when channel seven were forced to buy the NSL rights to suffocate it so it wouldn't effect footy.

Roy Masters summed it up very well.


Warring partners on the brink
By Roy Masters
December 17, 2005

An email from C7 executive Steve Wise, cited in the Federal Court, makes it clear the network bought the rights to soccer only to bury it, to please the AFL.

The November 2000 email, written when Channel Seven still had the AFL rights, lamented the AFL's lack of gratitude, saying:

"There is no credit that we have secured the soccer rights and sufficated [sic] the sport, much to the chagrin of its supporters."

It appears their intention was to bury soccer rather than to promote it.
And the objective of this was to gain favour with the AFL.

 

[3kzisfootball]

The 1950s boom in migration promised to be far more of a problem than that of the 1920s.

Which is interesting because Australian Rules Football (at least in the VFL levels, not sure in lower levels) has been very welcoming to Australians with non English-Speaking heritage.

You has a 'Sergio Silvagni' playing in a decade when any non anglo would be called a 'wog'. And throughout the 70 and beyond there were plenty of players from NES backgrounds: Jesaulenko, Busostow, Perovic, Serafini (I wonder what happened to him?) Bortolotto (and him as well?) etc.

And there isn't one team in the AFL without any NESB player.

This is different from Australian cricket which unlike Australian Rules Football is an international sport is anglo as it comes.

(ps sorry for being )

 

[1858]

Which is interesting because Australian Rules Football (at least in the VFL levels, not sure in lower levels) has been very welcoming to Australians with non English-Speaking heritage.

You has a 'Sergio Silvagni' playing in a decade when any non anglo would be called a 'wog'. And throughout the 70 and beyond there were plenty of players from NES backgrounds: Jesaulenko, Busostow, Perovic, Serafini (I wonder what happened to him?) Bortolotto (and him as well?) etc.

And there isn't one team in the AFL without any NESB player.

This is different from Australian cricket which unlike Australian Rules Football is an international sport is anglo as it comes.

(ps sorry for being )

Certainly not over the top at all.

You make a very good point regarding the cricket. While it is the one national game, it's highest level, even in the Pura Cup, is the worst in terms of not reflecting the true cultural make-up of Australia. Cricket reflects the true make-up of itself.

 

[gotheflag]

Australians you find support teams / players in different ways.

Watching Marcos Baghdatis at tennis, the hopman cup, davis cup the international water polo and the ashes the spectatators in these sports have been singing, chanting etc as a show of support as opposed to appealing to the umpire all the time a cheering a decision.

We are alot more reserved in Oz.

If you are competing in the fifa world cup you are taking on the world in football, if you are taking on the the vfl you are taking on the victorian league in football.

It does not really matter to me what you call it.

 

[westiger]

The increase in popularity of the A league is being driven by young "real Australians". The A league clubs do not have ties to any particular cultures or ethnic groups. This fear of other cultures is crazy. It is not the 1930s.

The Soccer clubs have and always WILL, have ties to ethnicity. You can call it anything you want mate, but the those tensions are still there. And that info. is gleaned from people who have gone to the games.
Like I said, this drive to become the dominant sport in this great counry is a soccer thing. The AFL have finally become aware of this and have thankfully, taken steps to remedy this.

 

[Hornet]

The Soccer clubs have and always WILL, have ties to ethnicity.

There are NO ethnic ties with any A-League team . . . ZERO

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

Who cares what nationality a sports supporters or which country the sport is from.

The majority of people whinging about other sports are usually "sports bigots" who belittle other sports but get really defensive when someone bags their sport.

Not everyone reckons football of any kind is the best sport- are these people therefore bad in someway.

People who complain about soccer being too ethnic and cricket being too anglo should have a look at themselves. They are just sports- they are not for any one nationality to watch/enjoy etc.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

The Soccer clubs have and always WILL, have ties to ethnicity. You can call it anything you want mate, but the those tensions are still there. And that info. is gleaned from people who have gone to the games.
Like I said, this drive to become the dominant sport in this great counry is a soccer thing. The AFL have finally become aware of this and have thankfully, taken steps to remedy this.

All sports are trying to be dominant. Whenever a sport threatens AFL they very quickly try to reduce the threat examples including:
-more saturday night games from 1996 (the same time NBL was peaking)
-more friday night games in melbourne from 1999 (the same time the Storm were getting big crowds)

the NRL tries to reduce the dominance of AFL via their relationship with Channel Nine (i.e. 2 friday night games from next season).

Union put out their fixture after the AFL's to take advantage of nights where AFL could get a foothold in the north (i.e. fixturing test matches against the Sydney vs Collingwood match)

Does it actually matter which sport is dominant in this country. No country has one dominant sport (regardless of what some soccer people say).

America has 5, only one is really dominant (NFL) over the whole country
-NASCAR popular in the South
-Hockey in the North
-Basketball in the major cities
-Baseball in the North-East and Great lakes

There is no reason why Australia couldn't have 5+ popular sports, so it doesn't matter which is the most popular, I see no reason why our country is lessened/enhanced by one sport being the dominant.

 

[realfootball]

Victorians have always called Aussie Rules 'Footy' and League 'Rugby'.
New South Welshman have always called League 'Footy' and Aussie Rules 'Rules'.
None of the above has ever had a problem with the other doing what they do. The common denominator is both have always called soccer 'soccer'.

Along come fans with soccer as their number 1 code (and I have no problems with that) up in arms about calling it soccer! Get over it!
Call it what you like but if you want the mainstream public to call soccer 'football' go live in Europe.

I'd like to know if this debate rages in the USA where Gridiron is referred to as 'football'. They too call soccer 'soccer'.

The fact is, and has been for awhile, you could refer to, in sydney, soccer, rugby and rugby league, all as football, and most people would find that perfectly acceptable. Slowly, 'soccer', here at least, is more and more referred to as 'football'. Australian football seems to be the exception, referred to as 'AFL' or a'ussie rules'.

 

[greenhat]

Thats not true. I live in Canberra (the most football code diverse city in Australia) and spend a fair bit of time in Sydney. You can call rugby, aussie rules, gridiron or whatever, "football" and no-one will blink an eye if thats your favourite sport. Everyone accepts that those are types of football.
I captain an indoor soccer team and have friends who only follow soccer and I have still never once heard anyone who was raised in Australia call soccer "football". I think thats because in australian english, soccer isn't even considered a type of football.
Think about it.
rugby is played with a football
aussie rules is played with a football
gridiron is played with a football
gaelic football is played with a football

soccer is played with a soccer ball
just like netball is played with a netball or tennis is played with a tennis ball

 

[Crosby87]

soccer is played with a soccer ball

What the hell are you talking about?

In England, I'm pretty sure they call a soccer ball a "football".

 

[Ronin]

Thats not true. I live in Canberra (the most football code diverse city in Australia) and spend a fair bit of time in Sydney. You can call rugby, aussie rules, gridiron or whatever, "football" and no-one will blink an eye if thats your favourite sport. Everyone accepts that those are types of football.
I captain an indoor soccer team and have friends who only follow soccer and I have still never once heard anyone who was raised in Australia call soccer "football". I think thats because in australian english, soccer isn't even considered a type of football.
Think about it.
rugby is played with a football
aussie rules is played with a football
gridiron is played with a football
gaelic football is played with a football

soccer is played with a soccer ball
just like netball is played with a netball or tennis is played with a tennis ball

Rubbish. No one calls AFL or Gridiron 'Football' in Sydney. That is reserved for League or Soccer.

Also, Soccer is played with a Football.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

There are NO ethnic ties with any A-League team . . . ZERO

Not yet that is. The problem the A-League has is there are only 8 teams so they really have to expand on that. The only place they can go where they will have a enough people to support a team is the Gold Coast and maybe Canberra. Then its to Melbourne and Sydney for a second team each and that's when when you will see those "ethnic ties" come out.

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

Footy's not even on during most of the soccer season. You think the WAFC or the AFL pays off the local media not to cover it? You have got to be joking - the West Australian even has a soccer section in Monday's edition! Although most of it seems to be directed at the pommie expats with very little news about local soccer. This is probably reflective of the general interest of the readership.



Both true, but the Glory have been on the decline for many years now, prior to both those things happening.



Might be true, I wouldn't know. I'll wait for the next ABS figures to come out to be sure, because every sporting organisation in the country claims participation goes up every year.

I was lucky enough to have the Eagles-Swans final & Glory-Sydney Fc match on the same weekend, so i'd like to think I have a good grasp of the scene in WA football.

Glory's hayday were in the late 90s. The Eagles were lower down, with the Dockers a mere laughing stock with a rather small localised supporter base. There was no Western Force at Subi getting the big crowds in. And the Western Reds NRL team were on their last legs, awaiting News Limited callously pulling the rug from under them. They were the latest big thing. And the raw atmosphere on the Old Shed was something completely new in Australian sport.

These days, Nick Tana has cut his losses and sold the team. The FFA are running the club on a shoestring & could arguably be said to be rather ignorant to the special cultural needs of a WA sporting team as well. With other cities now providing an equally viable option for top flight domestic footballers to play at, the better players are no longer heading across the Nullabor any more. Hence the Glory don't have the playing roster they once had. And in an increasingly competitive marketplace (with a great deal of parochial hype n00bs), people have just drifted off to other sports and teams.

It is arguable that because of the team playing in purple it may well be hard for the club to attract Eagles supporters; the FFA controversially did review changing the club's colours to yellow & black to try and win back more of them. Then again, I could NOT imagine the stereotypical Eagles snob from Dalkeith or Cottesloe turning up to a match in his boat shoes. They would not exactly take to standing in the Shed singing "Let's go f**king mental", I don't think.

Hopefully Perth can find a new owner & get their act back together again. If they get better players, hopefully the crowds will return again. Even though Perth would be the only place where at the moment the atmosphere at the AFL is actually better than at the futbol. The eagles 7 dockers finals crowds were completely manic!

JF

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

Not yet that is. The problem the A-League has is there are only 8 teams so they really have to expand on that. The only place they can go where they will have a enough people to support a team is the Gold Coast and maybe Canberra. Then its to Melbourne and Sydney for a second team each and that's when when you will see those "ethnic ties" come out.

There will be no ethnic teams, the league would expand to townsville, wollongong, geelong etc, and as you said canberra and gold coast before melbourne and sydney get another team. They also want to only have a maximum of 12 teams.

 

[maroon and blue]

Adrian, or should I call you Sir. I'm sure you didn't get your knighthood playing for the English XI cricket team, it must have been for playing for English soccer. A nil all draw somewhere perhaps? No ethnic links in soccer, pull the other one. Your moniker belies the fact.

 

[Hornet]

Not yet that is. The problem the A-League has is there are only 8 teams so they really have to expand on that. The only place they can go where they will have a enough people to support a team is the Gold Coast and maybe Canberra. Then its to Melbourne and Sydney for a second team each and that's when when you will see those "ethnic ties" come out.

The old NSL was ethnic based and was a failure as a major national sporting comp, which is why the A-League was created. Why would the FFA commit sporting suicide by reverting back to a flawed system? Any future expansion will be governed by the same guidelines that were presented to the current teams . . . as the previous ethnic teams are forever banished to their respective state leagues.

 

[From The Fence]

There are NO ethnic ties with any A-League team . . . ZERO

Apart from Brisbane Hollandia of course.

"You're Dutch, and you know you are"

 

[maroon and blue]

The new soccer format is merely window dressing. The feeder clubs are ethnic based in comparison to football where everyone no matter what creed, religion or colour are welcome. The assertion that new clubs to be created in regional areas are non ethnic is fallacious as those regions mentioned have a high proportion of ethnic concentration and the feeder clubs once again are based on ethnic lines.

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

It is quite strange. When I come here I feel like I have to defend soccer. When I am at the Melbourne Victory Forum I feel like I have to defend Australian Rules.

It's a hard life being a bicodal fan!

welcome to me world my friend!

Still hate you bastards though!

JF

 

[Hornet]

The new soccer format is merely window dressing. The feeder clubs are ethnic based in comparison to football where everyone no matter what creed, religion or colour are welcome. The assertion that new clubs to be created in regional areas are non ethnic is fallacious as those regions mentioned have a high proportion of ethnic concentration and the feeder clubs once again are based on ethnic lines.

No A-League team will ever have any ties to a single ethnic group - what part of that don't you understand?

So what if feeder teams are ethnic based - I follow Melbourne Victory FC and only them but to say that they discriminate as to who they allow to play for them is just being plain ignorant. Some of this country's best talent have passed through these clubs and yes those with Anglo sounding names are also included.