Atmosphere at the soccer better?

[realfootball]

ISo you've said 2 places are more, 2 are less, 1 you don't know, and that the 2 places that are more are 'the rule'. 2 out of 5 does not make it the norm.
But in any case, I wasn't having a go at the A-League, just pointing out that with less teams, you can't compare averages with the same validity.

No, 3 are more, melb, brisbane and newcastle. CC, is a completely new team in a new area, so non-comparable, and the reality is, Sydney FC are still generally getting crowds more than the old NSL teams from sydney, combined, (even though it could still be better). The point being with all of this is that you do get better crowds when professional people come on board, within a well managed governing organisation. These clubs prove that. I would certainly agree that Glory are not doing well, but the club itself has not been well managed.

From what i've read, the FFA don't think that. And the fact that they have propped up clubs in the past means that other clubs are now holding their hands out too. It's a touchy subject that needs to be managed well. Prop up clubs and the owners will always hold their hands out for money that could be used for development, and would otherwise come from the owners pockets. Don't prop them up and risk seeing clubs go under and you end up alienating thousands of people.

The priority for the FFA is to set the foundation for a sustainable league, it's a simple as that. I think the FFA will not prop up clubs endlessly, and NZ are the first to go.

I think you overstate 'management'. Most people don't show up to a sporting event because of what happens in the boardroom. Yes, it certainly is a positive to have off field stability. But ask yourself why Northern Spirit went from getting 15,000 crowds to 1,500 in a matter of 2 seasons. You really think 90% of those people stopped attending because of what happened off the field? You reckon they were sitting there reading a story in the paper about some boardroom battle thinking 'Gee, I really like going to watch, but I don't think i'll go anymore?' Sure, that sort of thing has an effect, but not to that extent.

Well, it's funny you raised Northern spirit, as it was my old club to support. For a start, they did not go from 15K to 1.5K in 2 seasons. They started off with abt 15K, the second season went to 10K and it slowly went down from there. Essentially, the club went broke after 6 months, and it went from disaster to disaster, including a rediculous takeover by glasgow rangers.
The club was situated in the nth shore of sydney, traditional fickle fans, who these days seem to support the swans, and only like to support 'winners'. Eventually the club was so broke that they moved to the northern beaches, which alienated traditional fans. The overall problem was that the club was crap, they never won anything, and only in the first season were they any good. They did get negative press, including headline news on 7 (of course) in sydney 'claiming' that fans were rioting over some incident, and constant negative press about how the club was mismanaged. Combine this with poor results and a decaying nsl, and it's all quite understandable. The fans may not have come soley because of poor managment, but it was a major factor in determining how many came through the gate. Nobody even new when the games were on, that's how bad the planning was.

The difference is these days, the FFA have done well to harness fans, and also have been able to shield the public from any potentially negative press. I am absolutely convinced their management skills will see this turn into a vibrant successful league. Essentially, they have 'won over' the public with the perception that 'soccer' is ok, and well run, even if they don't like the game itself. It now has, imho, respect amongst the average punter.

 

[mustapha]

No, 3 are more, melb, brisbane and newcastle. CC, is a completely new team in a new area, so non-comparable, and the reality is, Sydney FC are still generally getting crowds more than the old NSL teams from sydney, combined, (even though it could still be better). The point being with all of this is that you do get better crowds when professional people come on board, within a well managed governing organisation. These clubs prove that. I would certainly agree that Glory are not doing well, but the club itself has not been well managed.



The priority for the FFA is to set the foundation for a sustainable league, it's a simple as that. I think the FFA will not prop up clubs endlessly, and NZ are the first to go.




Well, it's funny you raised Northern spirit, as it was my old club to support. For a start, they did not go from 15K to 1.5K in 2 seasons. They started off with abt 15K, the second season went to 10K and it slowly went down from there. Essentially, the club went broke after 6 months, and it went from disaster to disaster, including a rediculous takeover by glasgow rangers.
The club was situated in the nth shore of sydney, traditional fickle fans, who these days seem to support the swans, and only like to support 'winners'. Eventually the club was so broke that they moved to the northern beaches, which alienated traditional fans. The overall problem was that the club was crap, they never won anything, and only in the first season were they any good. They did get negative press, including headline news on 7 (of course) in sydney 'claiming' that fans were rioting over some incident, and constant negative press about how the club was mismanaged. Combine this with poor results and a decaying nsl, and it's all quite understandable. The fans may not have come soley because of poor managment, but it was a major factor in determining how many came through the gate. Nobody even new when the games were on, that's how bad the planning was.

The difference is these days, the FFA have done well to harness fans, and also have been able to shield the public from any potentially negative press. I am absolutely convinced their management skills will see this turn into a vibrant successful league. Essentially, they have 'won over' the public with the perception that 'soccer' is ok, and well run, even if they don't like the game itself. It now has, imho, respect amongst the average punter.

When 3 arrests were made at the Sydney game (crowd roughly 50k) the usual media outlets reported about soocer riots You probably know about the 3AW employee who posed as a frightened onlooker (Sowerby) for channel nine. The problem for these media outlets is that there are now more people at the games to see what is actually happening. Agenda driven hype will need to supported with facts as a larger section of the population is watching.

 

[Crosby87]

15,000+ in Gosford on NYE.

21,000 in Newcastle yesterday.

Great signs for the A-League that the game is proving a massive drawcard in rural areas.



Full steam ahead for a huge 2007

Still a boring game

 

[evertonfc]

Still a boring game

People who are inferior always feel the need to bag others.

I don't like NRL or Gridiron, but I'd never bag either sport - I respect that people enjoy those sports, and that I enjoy my own.

Huge year coming up for football and the A-League in 2007.

 

[jays]

People who are inferior always feel the need to bag others.

I don't like NRL or Gridiron, but I'd never bag either sport - I respect that people enjoy those sports, and that I enjoy my own.

Huge year coming up for football and the A-League in 2007.

Futbol is a boring game. Take away the wogs with their usueless singing and crowd avg would be the same as a NSL match 5 years ago.

I hope the A-League dies a slow painful death and futbol is back where it deserves to be in the country - a distant 4th.

I love futbol - but i dislike it a lot in this country.

 

[mustapha]

Futbol is a boring game. Take away the wogs with their usueless singing and crowd avg would be the same as a NSL match 5 years ago.

I hope the A-League dies a slow painful death and futbol is back where it deserves to be in the country - a distant 4th.

I love futbol - but i dislike it a lot in this country.

You love "Futbol" but it is a boring game? The crowd at a Melbourne Victory game is comprised of people from all different backgrounds including a lot of anglo saxon Aussies. The average age of the crowd is also very young (late teens to early twenties).

 

[jays]

You love "Futbol" but it is a boring game? The crowd at a Melbourne Victory game is comprised of people from all different backgrounds including a lot of anglo saxon Aussies. The average age of the crowd is also very young (late teens to early twenties).

I hate it in this country. When i see the crowd trying to form "ultras" or "barra bravas" it just reeks of trying really hard. Like the songs they sing, most of them are all copied. But then again a lot of this countries culture is made up of copying other cultures i suppose.

 

[westiger]

Look, lazlo and jf bay 22, I am confident that Australians - real Australians - will stand up to Europeans trying to impose their sporting culture on Australia. You can sing as much as you like - it won't change a thing. There will always be a minority of people that support soccer and the rugby codes.



We have withstood rugby league and rugby union - soccer is just another one to add to the list.



Americans have American Football and soccer is no threat to them - you want to know why?
because Americans are confident in their sporting culture being superior. I am confident in Australia's sporting culture (Australian Rules Football) being superior to imported games such as rugby and soccer.



I will say it again - i have been to a-league matches and heard the singing. After a while, the fifth chant or so, it becomes clearly boring and one wants to watch the sport on offer.


I much prefer AFL fans singing their club songs at the end of the match than hearing people who wish they were back in the uk or germany or wherever singing./chanting their imported chants from europe.


but each to their own... if you derive more pleasure from soccer and rugby etc.. then go for it.. this is a free country after all. They have singing at rugby matches too – doesn’t make me want to go and watch it – still as dull as ever.

Well, I never thought I would be saying this, but here I go. I am actually agreeing with a Carlton supporter. This is a very good posting. What you said about the Europeans etc imposing their sporting culture on us is spot on. AFL is not the one going out inciting all of this new hostility about who watches what and why. Its coming from the Soccer fraternity. And I don't care that it is the "World" Game. We Aussies got it right with the AFL over 100 years ago. For all its perceived flaws, it's still the greatest game in the World.

Well said Blue Bagger...

 

[mustapha]

Well, I never thought I would be saying this, but here I go. I am actually agreeing with a Carlton supporter. This is a very good posting. What you said about the Europeans etc imposing their sporting culture on us is spot on. AFL is not the one going out inciting all of this new hostility about who watches what and why. Its coming from the Soccer fraternity. And I don't care that it is the "World" Game. We Aussies got it right with the AFL over 100 years ago. For all its perceived flaws, it's still the greatest game in the World.

Well said Blue Bagger...

The increase in popularity of the A league is being driven by young "real Australians". The A league clubs do not have ties to any particular cultures or ethnic groups. This fear of other cultures is crazy. It is not the 1930s.

 

[3kzisfootball]

It is quite strange. When I come here I feel like I have to defend soccer. When I am at the Melbourne Victory Forum I feel like I have to defend Australian Rules.

It's a hard life being a bicodal fan!

 

[mustapha]

It is quite strange. When I come here I feel like I have to defend soccer. When I am at the Melbourne Victory Forum I feel like I have to defend Australian Rules.

It's a hard life being a bicodal fan!

Exactly the same for me.

 

[hirdy_is_champ]

In terms of participation rates, football in victoria is at the highest its ever been. Its something like 250,000 +. I dunno where this crap of soccer being more played than football came from. There was a fair bit of a difference as well. I'm not sure about somewhere like NSW where a lot of parents wouldn't want there kids playing rugby and therefore play soccer instead.

also if I'm not mistaken the F in AFL stands for Football.

 

[realfootball]

In terms of participation rates, football in victoria is at the highest its ever been. Its something like 250,000 +. I dunno where this crap of soccer being more played than football came from. There was a fair bit of a difference as well. I'm not sure about somewhere like NSW where a lot of parents wouldn't want there kids playing rugby and therefore play soccer instead.

I'm unsure abt victoria, bit australia wide, the Australian sports commisision finds that football (soccer) is the only football code in sporting activities in the top 10, coming in at no.8 in terms of participation in 2005. It also outdoes all other football codes, at all age groups (up to 44yo), at both an organised and unorganised level.

http://www.ausport.gov.au/scorsresearch/ERASS2005/ERASS2005_table21.pdf

http://www.ausport.gov.au/scorsresearch/ERASS2005/ERASS2005_table16.pdf

If you add indoor to it, it becomes even way higher.

 

[realfootball]

....

 

[realfootball]

Well, I never thought I would be saying this, but here I go. I am actually agreeing with a Carlton supporter. This is a very good posting. What you said about the Europeans etc imposing their sporting culture on us is spot on.

Well we all better turn the cricket off today then.

The fact remains, all football codes are part of the Australian sporting culture, irrespective of origin, and have been for a long time, whether we like it or not.

 

[Adam BK]

It is quite strange. When I come here I feel like I have to defend soccer. When I am at the Melbourne Victory Forum I feel like I have to defend Australian Rules.

It's a hard life being a bicodal fan!

Same, just swap the Melbourne Victory Forum with the The Gate Forum (ie Adelaide United).

 

[lion_gooner]

english football games absolutely slaughters afl in terms of atmosphere

 

[Grunty]

It is quite strange. When I come here I feel like I have to defend soccer. When I am at the Melbourne Victory Forum I feel like I have to defend Australian Rules.

It's a hard life being a bicodal fan!

I clicked on your link and saw this bicodal rant.




in light of the thread started by king james hird earlier today. whether it was sean sowbery (whatever the ******** his surname is), or a worried afl fanatic, i hope you and anyone with an agenda take note of what i say whilst you troll.

ive been mulling over this all afternoon.

heres a bit of background on me.

im a 26 year old male. i love sport. i love watching sport, whether its afl, football, cricket, darts, poker. you get the picture. if its on a sport channel ill watch it. my family background is my parents and there fellow brothers and sisters are from scotland. my father played football back in scotland, and i believe he was a handy player, not professional or anything.

anyways i was born here, and although i enjoyed watching football, AFL has been my passion since i was a little kid. im a mad hawthorn fan (i was lucky growing up enjoying all those grand finals.) ive been going week in week out since i was 6, last few years i have barely missed a game, even though we have been ******** of late, even been on a few interstate trips to watch the boys. ive been a member in all those years except for 2.

look i used to watch the odd nsl game on pay tv when it was on, went to one or two games, but im first to admit, i never followed it religously, or had a side. id always look out for the melbourne sides but that was it, socceroos though i have always followed. i can still remember the heartache of iran and the days after of shock, same with uraguay 4 years later.

english football though ive been brought up on. been watching fa cup finals and highlights shows since i was a youngin. over the years my support for arsenal has grown and grown. since turning 18 and travelling overseas, i have been lucky to see the gunners play at highbury, inter at the san siro, been to see our families side in scotland hearts play at tynecastle a couple of times, and my best was seeing england and argentina play at wembly in one of the last games there.

when the a league was announced my mates and i got excited. ive followed MVFC progress from day one. last year i went to one or two games, but my mates and i didnt get memberships due to us each having a different commitments last year. i was actually in sydney the day we played SFC in the first ever game however i couldnt go as i was at the doctor with a crook ear all day. this year me and 2 mates bought gold reserved memberships. we have been to every home game. we all love it. we will be renewing our memberships for years to come.

what has really got to me is the agenda of media and the AFL people. its disgraceful and shows how scared they are, considering that the seasons dont even clash. its got me ********ed why some people dont think we can co-exist.

now heres my rant, you have got it all wrong, king james hird, sean sowbery, 3AW, channel 9, hearld sun. you are damaging your own reputation, and you are turning people who want to follow both codes off AFL. and there are plenty of others in this forum in the same boat. take it from me being the fanaticle AFL fan i was. its childish rubbish that you broadcast, print and say that makes me cringe for AFL and makes me love MVFC even more. i will continue to buy my hawthorn membership, for the love i have of the club, but slowly and slowly, i will be goin to less and less games if it continues. added to the fact the game continues to turn into a bore with all the stupid rule changes brought in every year, and that farce of a hybrid game against ireland.

end rant

to all MVFC supporters, lets continue the good work. espcially the bwb and sdc and other crews, lets get everyone singing at TD next game and the fianls. cant wait.

C'MON MELBOURNE, C'MON MELBOURNE

 

[dont bowl there]

I will never get into Soccer that much because i was raised on Footy and Cricket. The atmosphere at a soccer game isnt what i like because i dont support my team by singing some random song but rather cheer AT the team. Seems that people at soccer cheer to make themselves feel good rather than trying to life the club they support. As posters have said them trying to outsing the opposition supporters.

 

[greenhat]

All these soccer fans playing the innocent victims. I got news for you - people are defensive because soccer is aggressive towards other sports.

I followed the Socceroos during the WC, but by the end of it I was disgusted by the whole culture around soccer and its views of other sports. The amount of times I heard some self righteous ********er proclaiming that Australia had 'woken up' to the world game, as if we'd somehow just discovered this game and seen the cultural light. Soccer is the only game that -every- Australian is familiar with. Noone was 'waking up' or discovering anything - they were just supporting Australians on a world stage.
On top of that we've got soccer people changing the name of their game to 'football'. If that isn't a blatant attack on Australian culture I don't know what is. In every part of Australia, football already means something else - and in all cases its a tough, contact sport. In the aussie rules states, football only has one, very specific meaning. What incredible arrogance to purposely cause confusion and simply expect aussie rules football to change its name so that Australian soccer can feel a little less insecure in Britain, and to try and hoodwink Australians into thinking of soccer as a tough sport.

and for the record, i am tricodal

 

[Prince Imperial]

I've followed soccer all my life and have attended Socceroo, NSL, A-League and overseas matches as well as playing the game as teenager. I have to agree though there is a strong paranoia and arrogance amongst many of the sport's supporters that it is only the true code of football, that it has been persecuted for many years and that it is manifestly destined to become the number 1 sport in the nation. I have found these attitudes alienating and it has probably limited somewhat my support for the game.

The reality is that soccer at a professional level for many years struggled because of poor admininstration and the balkanised nature of the NSL. The constant blaming of sections of the media always rings hollow as none of the game's supporter complain about the taxpayers funded SBS's constant promotion of soccer and almost total snubbing of the Australian game.

There will be an increasing number of people following more than one code in coming years but the competion between the codes will only intensify.

 

[TheSaviour]

All these soccer fans playing the innocent victims. I got news for you - people are defensive because soccer is aggressive towards other sports.

I followed the Socceroos during the WC, but by the end of it I was disgusted by the whole culture around soccer and its views of other sports. The amount of times I heard some self righteous ********er proclaiming that Australia had 'woken up' to the world game, as if we'd somehow just discovered this game and seen the cultural light. Soccer is the only game that -every- Australian is familiar with. Noone was 'waking up' or discovering anything - they were just supporting Australians on a world stage.
On top of that we've got soccer people changing the name of their game to 'football'. If that isn't a blatant attack on Australian culture I don't know what is. In every part of Australia, football already means something else - and in all cases its a tough, contact sport. In the aussie rules states, football only has one, very specific meaning. What incredible arrogance to purposely cause confusion and simply expect aussie rules football to change its name so that Australian soccer can feel a little less insecure in Britain, and to try and hoodwink Australians into thinking of soccer as a tough sport.

and for the record, i am tricodal

Its the other way around.

How about a fews year back when channel seven were forced to buy the NSL rights to suffocate it so it wouldn't effect footy.

 

[TheSaviour]

The problem with AFL participation numbers is that they they include School Footy but Soccer doesn't. The reality is that AFL participation numbers are dwindling fast. The main issue i beleive is that parents are overprotective these days and the Wife is more likely to send her precious son to play Soccer instead of footy.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Its the other way around.

How about a fews year back when channel seven were forced to buy the NSL rights to suffocate it so it wouldn't effect footy.

The origin of this paranoia theory comes from a sour grapes quote from a Channel 7 exec when they lost the footy rights that they had helped the AFL by relegating the NSL to late timeslots so the AFL should have helped them retain the rights. The reality was that NSL was a poorly administered organisation that had little public interest in its competition and very low ratings that resulted in the the Channel 7 programming decision. If the NSL had rated well it would have been put on in better timeslots - instead it went the same way as the NBL on free to air. Later and later until finally off.

 

[3kzisfootball]

I've followed soccer all my life and have attended Socceroo, NSL, A-League and overseas matches as well as playing the game as teenager. I have to agree though there is a strong paranoia and arrogance amongst many of the sport's supporters that it is only the true code of football, that it has been persecuted for many years and that it is manifestly destined to become the number 1 sport in the nation. I have found these attitudes alienating and it has probably limited somewhat my support for the game.

I agree with you, This this 'superiority complex' is very irritating. The same way I find some Australian Rules supporters saying that Aussie Rules is 'the best game in the world' and soccer is 'boring' etc. Everyone may like a game or not for a variety of reasons but ultimately it is a personal choice.

I would ignore those 'soccer supremacists'. It is probably a reaction from some taunting they had at school (because probably they are still there) and enjoy whatever game you like.[/quote]

The reality is that soccer at a professional level for many years struggled because of poor admininstration and the balkanised nature of the NSL. The constant blaming of sections of the media always rings hollow as none of the game's supporter complain about the taxpayers funded SBS's constant promotion of soccer and almost total snubbing of the Australian game.

I don't know if I agree with you there. I still think that lots sections of the media are very soccer-unfriendly. This is because the journalists/editors have grown up with the dominant football/cricket paradigm and still see soccer as a 'foreign' game or something that it is not 'mainstream' enough. This is of course not solely about soccer. Sports like Hockey and Netball which Australia excels also find it hard to find space in the media amongst Aussie Rules/Cricket stories.

Also I don't agree with you in regards to SBS. I think that it is perfectly fine for it to have more soccer that other media outlets. We have a taxpayer funded ABC which constantly promotes AFL. And of course heaps of AFL on the commercial channels. So it is good that SBS looks after those taxpayers that like soccer, which is not an unsubstantial number across Australia, because without them the amount of the code shown on free to air TV would be zilch.

I would also disagree that SBS almost totally snubs Australian Rules. 'World Sport' always reported on the AFL and had a special section about it every Friday. But also as the title says 'Special Broadcasting' the charter of the station is to show stuff which is not covered by other outlets of the media, and there is lots of AFL shown on other TV stations.

There will be an increasing number of people following more than one code in coming years but the competion between the codes will only intensify.

I agree 100% there.