Opinion AUSTRALIAN Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 5

[Bearded Clam]

You don’t need to wait for it to be removed, you could work out the amount and donate it to the Greta Thunberg Foundation.

Greta is a moron.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Labor as a party can’t be forced into anything. They could have said no but they didn’t want the political fall out of saying no to the first 2 stages.

Yes, to reverse them now would cost them votes which brings me back to my original point, both parties will do what it takes to stay in power. In this example Labor voted for the legislation, they can reverse it but won’t because they want to stay in power. Do you disagree?

Of course both parties do what it takes to stay in power.

It been like that since the dawn of bloody time!..

The stage 3 cuts still give tax releief to people in the $45,000 to $120,000 range.. the issue with them is they give relief to people that make $200,000 too.. relief that many believe isnt necessary..
maybe labor just sees it as the people earning $45.000-$120,000 still get needed relief so stage 3 has some benefit and thus the political fight to try and change it now is a waste of energy..

I dont know.. all I know is the labor party didnt agree with the stage 3 part of the cuts but eventually voted for them as they came as part of the package that had the stage 1 and 2 cuts and the coalition refused to seperate the three stages.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Says it all really with credits to it's writers Bruce Woodley and Dobe Newton



I am, you are, we are all Australian.
I AM AUSTRALIAN.
I came from the dream-time
From the dusty red-soil plains
I am the ancient heart
The keeper of the flame
I stood upon the rocky shores
I watched the tall ships come
For forty thousand years I've been
The first Australian
I came upon the prison ship
Bowed down by iron chains
I bought the land, endured the lash
And waited for the rains
I'm a settler, I'm a farmer's wife
On a dry and barren run
A convict, then a free man
I became Australian
I'm the daughter of a digger
Who sought the mother lode
The girl became a woman
On the long and dusty road
I'm a child of the Depression
I saw the good times come
I'm a bushie, I'm a battler
I am Australian
We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"
I'm a teller of stories
I'm a singer of songs
I am Albert Namatjira
And I paint the ghostly gums
I'm Clancy on his horse
I'm Ned Kelly on the run
I'm the one who waltzed Matilda
I am Australian
I'm the hot wind from the desert
I'm the black soil of the plains
I'm the mountains and the valleys
I'm the drought and flooding rains
I am the rock, I am the sky
The rivers when they run
The spirit of this great land
I am Australian
We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"
We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"
"I am, you are, we are Australian"

This should really be our national anthem..

replace that poxy, pathetic excuse for a national anthem we have now.. its fxxkn embarrasing.

Pfffft… “Girt by sea”… fuxk off!.. seriously.. what is that nonsense.

Either make it this song… or Men At Work’s down under..

I’d also choose Waltzing Matilda.. but for some it would probably be a bridge too far to have a song about a thief as our NA..

And can we please finally rip that stupid union jack out from the corner of our flag.. why are we still associating ourselves with those pommy flogs? And, mind you, this is coming from someone whos mum is a pom.

replace that rectangled spot where the union jack currently is with the green and gold boxing kangaroo..

 

[spenze]

Geez just reading this thread… exactly when does Labors training wheels come off and they are held accountable for their actions and decisions?

It’s been 2 years now and besides shafting the Indigenous communities with a poorly executed referendum and sitting on their hands and not condemning Muslims for hate speech…I’m not sure they have done much more.

No, I’m wrong, they did overstimulate the economy with a massive increase in migration in the face of all common sense that said the economy would explode after Covid restrictions were lifted.

Labor is so much better in Opposition when the weight of expectation doesn’t smother them.

 

[Crow till I die]

Geez just reading this thread… exactly when does Labors training wheels come off and they are held accountable for their actions and decisions?

It’s been 2 years now and besides shafting the Indigenous communities with a poorly executed referendum and sitting on their hands and not condemning Muslims for hate speech…I’m not sure they have done much more.

No, I’m wrong, they did overstimulate the economy with a massive increase in migration in the face of all common sense that said the economy would explode after Covid restrictions were lifted.

Labor is so much better in Opposition when the weight of expectation doesn’t smother them.

A new change is coming this year for those in the Construction Industry. Just wait for their net zero carbon plans (ie changes being made to work towards them) and the effect that will have on dampening the construction industry via added cost and reduced ability to comply with new standards to put the absolute kybosh on their plans to build 2 million new 'affordable homes'.

There needs to be recalibration in thinking on net zero carbon targets and how to meet them or the construction industry is in for a reckoning

 

[spenze]

A new change is coming this year for those in the Construction Industry. Just wait for their net zero carbon plans (ie changes being made to work towards them) and the effect that will have on dampening the construction industry via added cost and reduced ability to comply with new standards to put the absolute kybosh on their plans to build 2 million new 'affordable homes'.

There needs to be recalibration in thinking on net zero carbon targets and how to meet them or the construction industry is in for a reckoning

I just don't get the "we need to be living off renewable energy" to meet a target, whilst selling fossil fuel to China who are building 60-100 new coal power stations a year that means even if we did reach our target, **** all good it does the planet.

Sometimes the right hand has no idea what the left is doing

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Dictator Dans legacy continues.

The Allan/Andrews.govt crying poor when the Morrison federal govt provided Victoria with more than $45 billion in direct economic support. What did they do with that?


The state government has started clawing back its huge Covid debt, with a land tax to hit hundreds of thousands of Victorians.

The Victorian government, under Premier Jacinta Allan, has started clawing back debt from it’s “Covid emergency credit card” with a land tax set to hit about 380,000 Victorians. This is how it works, why it’s been introduced and who will be stung.

What is the tax?​

The state government last month said a Covid debt levy would be implemented that resulted in “temporary” changes to land tax rates and thresholds for taxable landholdings, from the 2024 land tax year.

Will it affect all Victorians?​

No,the family home remains exempt from land tax.
The land tax levy applies primarily to those who own a second property or multiple properties.
About380,000 newly liable properties are each expected to cough up $878 on average each year.

How much extra will some Victorians pay?​

For land worth between $50,000 and $100,000, a $500 flat surcharge applies.

For land worth between $100,000 and $300,000 (or $250,000 for trusts), a $975 flat surcharge applies.
For land worth more than $300,000 (or $250,000 for trusts), a $975 flat surcharge applies, plus an increased rate of land tax by 0.10 percentage points.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/everything-you-need-to-know-about-victorias-new-covid-debt-repayment-plan-land-tax/news-story/85184f21ac6f94cfc799ab9ccd1bd91f?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&net_sub_id=285893080&type=free_text_block&position=3&overallPos=6

 

[Bearded Clam]

Dictator Dans legacy continues.


The state government has started clawing back its huge Covid debt, with a land tax to hit hundreds of thousands of Victorians.

The Victorian government, under Premier Jacinta Allan, has started clawing back debt from it’s “Covid emergency credit card” with a land tax set to hit about 380,000 Victorians. This is how it works, why it’s been introduced and who will be stung.

What is the tax?​

The state government last month said a Covid debt levy would be implemented that resulted in “temporary” changes to land tax rates and thresholds for taxable landholdings, from the 2024 land tax year.

Will it affect all Victorians?​

No,the family home remains exempt from land tax.
The land tax levy applies primarily to those who own a second property or multiple properties.
About380,000 newly liable properties are each expected to cough up $878 on average each year.

How much extra will some Victorians pay?​

For land worth between $50,000 and $100,000, a $500 flat surcharge applies.

For land worth between $100,000 and $300,000 (or $250,000 for trusts), a $975 flat surcharge applies.
For land worth more than $300,000 (or $250,000 for trusts), a $975 flat surcharge applies, plus an increased rate of land tax by 0.10 percentage points.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/everything-you-need-to-know-about-victorias-new-covid-debt-repayment-plan-land-tax/news-story/85184f21ac6f94cfc799ab9ccd1bd91f?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&net_sub_id=285893080&type=free_text_block&position=3&overallPos=6

Simple solution..

Property investors can sell off all their investment properties..

Then they wont have to pay the land tax..

Negative gearing and capital gains tax discount set to cost the budget $20 billion a year within a decade - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

“Combined, the two main property investor tax breaks are expected to cost the budget around $20.4 billion in revenue forgone in financial year 2032-33, up from about $8.5 billion last financial year.”

$20 fxxkn billion to allow these investors to buy house after house after house..

Laughable that these property investing “socialists” among us, who expect the government to subsidise their investment properties with negative gearing and capital gains tax discount, could whinge about having to pay a bit more back..

The system is completely broken.

IMO… This Vic Labor policy should be bought in Australia wide..

Then young people might start being able to compete with these greedy investor pricks at residential housing auctions..

 

[Crow till I die]

Simple solution..

Property investors can sell off all their investment properties..

Then they wont have to pay the land tax..

Negative gearing and capital gains tax discount set to cost the budget $20 billion a year within a decade - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

“Combined, the two main property investor tax breaks are expected to cost the budget around $20.4 billion in revenue forgone in financial year 2032-33, up from about $8.5 billion last financial year.”

$20 fxxkn billion to allow these investors to buy house after house after house..

Laughable that these property investing “socialists” among us, who expect the government to subsidise their investment properties with negative gearing and capital gains tax discount, could whinge about having to pay a bit more back..

The system is completely broken.

IMO… This Vic Labor policy should be bought in Australia wide..

Then young people might start being able to compete with these greedy investor pricks at residential housing auctions..

Just a question, if you disincentivise property investment enough and like you say all the property investors sold off their investments (remember this is existing stock which is already not enough for the existing population), who is going to build the homes needed for the 2 million new people airbus is aiming to bring in?.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Just a question, if you disincentivise property investment enough and like you say all the property investors sold off their investments (remember this is existing stock which is already not enough for the existing population), who is going to build the homes needed for the 2 million new people airbus is aiming to bring in?.

Tax the rich

 

[Bearded Clam]

Just a question, if you disincentivise property investment enough and like you say all the property investors sold off their investments (remember this is existing stock which is already not enough for the existing population), who is going to build the homes needed for the 2 million new people airbus is aiming to bring in?.

You’re confusing “property investors” with “property developers”..

Investors buying up existing homes to build a portfolio doesnt result in any extra housing stock at all.

New housing stock really only comes from property developers constructing new housing estates or high rise apartments which add to the housing stock.

This is what we need to encourage..

Not your average Joe that runs around buying up existing housing stock to build an investment portfolio whilst expecting the government to subsidise them when doing so..

And bringing in “2 million” new people?.. when?
Got a source for this claim?”

Because.. The official government figures are a long way off your 2 million.. and are pretty much set at exactly the same level as the LNP had them whilst in office (except during covid for obvious reasons)..

Are you confusing us with the US or something?.. 2 million sounds more like a figure you rant about when you carry on about Biden and the US..

“The 2023–24 permanent Migration Program has been set at the pre-COVID planning level of 190,000.

This is a slight reduction of 5000 places compared with the 2022–23 permanent Migration Program planning level of 195,000 places.”

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/what-we-do/migration-program-planning-levels#:~:text=2023–24%20permanent%20Migration%20Program%20planning%20levels,planning%20level%20of%20195%2C000%20places.

 

[Crow till I die]

You’re confusing “property investors” with “property developers”..

Investors buying up existing homes to build a portfolio doesnt result in any extra housing stock at all.

New housing stock really only comes from property developers constructing new housing estates or high rise apartments which add to the housing stock.

This is what we need to encourage..

Not your average Joe that runs around buying up existing housing stock to build an investment portfolio whilst expecting the government to subsidise them when doing so..

And bringing in “2 million” new people?.. when?
Got a source for this claim?”

Because.. The official government figures are a long way off your 2 million.. and are pretty much set at exactly the same level as the LNP had them whilst in office (except during covid for obvious reasons)..

Are you confusing us with the US or something?.. 2 million sounds more like a figure you rant about when you carry on about Biden and the US..

“The 2023–24 permanent Migration Program has been set at the pre-COVID planning level of 190,000.

This is a slight reduction of 5000 places compared with the 2022–23 permanent Migration Program planning level of 195,000 places.”

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/what-we-do/migration-program-planning-levels#:~:text=2023–24%20permanent%20Migration%20Program%20planning%20levels,planning%20level%20of%20195%2C000%20places.

How are you going to encourage it (building new properties) if you are disincentivising owning investment property period. Less demand means less houses will be built which means less building stock which is no good for a rapidly growing population.

As for the increase in population, it was 500K in 1 year - I just extrapolated

'Bringing migration to a sustainable level': New strategy aims to cut Australian arrivals

The federal government is set to unveil a major new migration strategy that aims to dramatically cut Australia's intake after a surge of arrivals after the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.abc.net.au

Temporary migration has jumped sharply over the past year — largely driven by foreign students — leading to a record intake. The Net Overseas Migration is expected to have hit about 500,000 over the year to September.

I'll believe its a one off surge when we actually see it

 

[Vader]

How are you going to encourage it (building new properties) if you are disincentivising owning investment property period. Less demand means less houses will be built which means less building stock which is no good for a rapidly growing population.

New home owners would be able to enter the market, if the investors weren't driving prices up to insane levels and making it completely unaffordable.

As for the increase in population, it was 500K in 1 year - I just extrapolated

'Bringing migration to a sustainable level': New strategy aims to cut Australian arrivals

The federal government is set to unveil a major new migration strategy that aims to dramatically cut Australia's intake after a surge of arrivals after the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.abc.net.au

Temporary migration has jumped sharply over the past year — largely driven by foreign students — leading to a record intake. The Net Overseas Migration is expected to have hit about 500,000 over the year to September.

Which was essentially a rebound due to the (almost) complete absence of immigration during the COVID period.

 

[Crow till I die]

New home owners would be able to enter the market, if the investors weren't driving prices up to insane levels and making it completely unaffordable.

Which was essentially a rebound due to the (almost) complete absence of immigration during the COVID period.

Developers and investors won't build houses for a loss or to break even. Sure new home owners will be looking to buy as they do now but with less stock available, prices will still go up but there will be less stock being built if you dismantle the investment side of property

 

[Vader]

Developers and investors won't build houses for a loss or to break even.

Nobody is suggesting that they should. Houses are selling for far more than cost, because investors have driven prices to insane levels.

Sure new home owners will be looking to buy as they do now but with less stock available, prices will still go up but there will be less stock being built if you dismantle the investment side of property

Once again, you're assuming less stock available - which is a fundamentally flawed assumption.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Developers and investors won't build houses for a loss or to break even. Sure new home owners will be looking to buy as they do now but with less stock available, prices will still go up but there will be less stock being built if you dismantle the investment side of property

WTF are you talking about?.. we have a massive housing supply shortage and huge demand.. its not like prices will plummet.

Problem is people are being priced out by property protfolio investors who can outbid young buyers and, at the same time, expect the rest of the country to subsidise their investing at a yearly cost of $20 billion dollars to the county’s budget..

How can anyone think this is anything but fxxkn ludicrous?..

Now these investors are going to be made, in Victoria, to pay an extra land tax on their investment properties.. sounds like a good idea if you ask me..

If they wanna fxxkn moan about it well they can solve that issue by selling these extra properties off to others..

 

[Crow till I die]

Nobody is suggesting that they should. Houses are selling for far more than cost, because investors have driven prices to insane levels.

Once again, you're assuming less stock available - which is a fundamentally flawed assumption.

I take it you are not in the industry then? Right now construction costs are sky high and it is about to get much worse later this year. You try getting infill land way below cost to offset the cost of construction and the holding costs and the selling costs and the GST to ensure a suitable profit margin is there - I bet you can't

By way of example, try building a small single storey house in Modbury or Valley View for example - the land (courtyard) will set you back close to $400k now and the build cost will set you back at least $300K - then factor in holding costs, selling costs and purchase costs - guess what courtyard houses are selling for in those areas?

 

[Crow till I die]

WTF are you talking about?.. we have a massive housing supply shortage and huge demand.. its not like prices will plummet.

Problem is people are being priced out by property protfolio investors who can outbid young buyers and, at the same time, expect the rest of the country to subsidise their investing at a yearly cost of $20 billion dollars to the county’s budget..

How can anyone think this is anything but fxxkn ludicrous?..

Now these investors are going to be made, in Victoria, to pay an extra land tax on their investment properties.. sounds like a good idea if you ask me..

If they wanna fxxkn moan about it well they can solve that issue by selling these extra properties off to others..

You just said investors should dump their property portfolio if they don't wat to pay the higher and higher land taxes etc...make up your mind

Take the investment arm out of the property market and see what happens

 

[Eagleboy2011]

I take it you are not in the industry then? Right now construction costs are sky high and it is about to get much worse later this year. You try getting infill land way below cost to offset the cost of construction and the holding costs and the selling costs and the GST to ensure a suitable profit margin is there - I bet you can't

By way of example, try building a small single storey house in Modbury or Valley View for example - the land (courtyard) will set you back close to $400k now and the build cost will set you back at least $300K - then factor in holding costs, selling costs and purchase costs - guess what courtyard houses are selling for in those areas?

Bottom line these increases will all be passed onto renters.

 

[George Kramer]

Nobody is suggesting that they should. Houses are selling for far more than cost, because investors have driven prices to insane levels.

Once again, you're assuming less stock available - which is a fundamentally flawed assumption.

How come so many builders are going bust if houses are selling for far more than cost?

If you take a segment of buyers out, prices will decline but so will profitability

 

[George Kramer]

WTF are you talking about?.. we have a massive housing supply shortage and huge demand.. its not like prices will plummet.

Problem is people are being priced out by property protfolio investors who can outbid young buyers and, at the same time, expect the rest of the country to subsidise their investing at a yearly cost of $20 billion dollars to the county’s budget..

How can anyone think this is anything but fxxkn ludicrous?..

Now these investors are going to be made, in Victoria, to pay an extra land tax on their investment properties.. sounds like a good idea if you ask me..

If they wanna fxxkn moan about it well they can solve that issue by selling these extra properties off to others..

What other taxes have been raised by the Vic Labor government to try and cover their mismanagement?

 

[Vader]

I take it you are not in the industry then? Right now construction costs are sky high and it is about to get much worse later this year. You try getting infill land way below cost to offset the cost of construction and the holding costs and the selling costs and the GST to ensure a suitable profit margin is there - I bet you can't

By way of example, try building a small single storey house in Modbury or Valley View for example - the land (courtyard) will set you back close to $400k now and the build cost will set you back at least $300K - then factor in holding costs, selling costs and purchase costs - guess what courtyard houses are selling for in those areas?

Ironically, a large part of the reason why construction costs are so high is a lack of workers... because our immigration was basically shutdown for 2 years.

Looking at those costs... granted the build will cost $300K, regardless of whether it's 1st home buyer or investor - but the cost of the land itself would drop significantly without investors driving prices to buggery.

 

[Crow till I die]

Bottom line these increases will all be passed onto renters.

Try finding rents below $400 these days even for entry level properties on the suburban fringes - maybe units but thats it and in reality rents are closer to $600 / week and up in the reasonable inner areas. The whole market is unsustainable due to the cost of producing buildings and the holding costs of retaining them. Imagine being on a pension and not being a property owner and having to rent these days. The pension does not even cover the rent and rent relief has been capped at a stupidly low level with no correlation to rent costs.

Shame the government won't open up lots of land right on the fringes where real low cost holiday park style living (converted shipping containers etc) could be provided for those unable to afford rents - would it be ideal? - no, would it help get a roof over people's heads? - yes

 

[Crow till I die]

Ironically, a large part of the reason why construction costs are so high is a lack of workers... because our immigration was basically shutdown for 2 years.

Looking at those costs... granted the build will cost $300K, regardless of whether it's 1st home buyer or investor - but the cost of the land itself would drop significantly without investors driving prices to buggery.

We have enough people here - why not train them up to do the trades. Incentivise it so that tradies want to take on apprentices. Less people + less housing stress.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

We have enough people here - why not train them up to do the trades. Incentivise it so that tradies want to take on apprentices. Less people + less housing stress.

The apprentice system has been on the decline for years with both sides of government. Also, I know of people that are applying for trade jobs with dodgey credentials.