Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Cap]

This is a total lie.
Russia tried to embrace the West.
Instead, the West responded by extending the borders of NATO to russia's borders.

LOL.

The old NATO expansion stuff.

 

[IlovethePies]

LOL.

The old NATO expansion stuff.

Except that it is true.

 

[Cap]

This is a very dishonest reply. Here is what you said:


"I mean you are still on the whole Nazi thing, even when literal Nazis are fighting for Russia."

I then replied by pointing out that Nazis are also fighting in the Ukrainian army. (in the Azov batallion and no doubt others).

You then, and here is the dishonest part, claimed that I was excusing Putin because supposedly he is "denazifying" Ukraine.

I never have made any such claim. Your statement is completely disingenuous.

Putin has no issue with Nazis. He was happy to collaborate for a long while with the paramilitary fascists in the Wagner group.

"Denazifying Ukraine" is totally treacherous pro Russian propaganda, which I oppose absolutely.

I utterly reject your attempt to connect me in any way with it.

My point was in relation to your need to bring up Asoz Nazis, a well worn pro Russian propaganda piece.

you do a lot of rejecting things that don't appear to have been said.

Except that it is true.

Yeah it's not.

 

[Chief]

To understand why Putin invaded

Still, he could have not invaded.

 

[IlovethePies]

My point was in relation to your need to bring up Asoz Nazis, a well worn pro Russian propaganda piece.

you do a lot of rejecting things that don't appear to have been said.



Yeah it's not.

Putin was hoping that Russia could join NATO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2000/03/06/putin-says-why-not-to-russia-joining-nato/c1973032-c10f-4bff-9174-8cae673790cd/

So yeah, you're wrong.

 

[Chief]

He also could have not blown up his own people to gain power.

Lots of things he could have not done, but being a monstrous psycho, he did.

 

[IlovethePies]

He also could have not blown up his own people to gain power.

Lots of things he could have not done, but being a monstrous psycho, he did.

 

[IlovethePies]

Still, he could have not invaded.

 

[Cap]

Still, he could have not invaded.

another salient point.

Putin was hoping that Russia could join NATO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2000/03/06/putin-says-why-not-to-russia-joining-nato/c1973032-c10f-4bff-9174-8cae673790cd/

So yeah, you're wrong.

Yeah I'm not wrong.

NATO expansion has 0 to do with this war, outside Putin saw his opportunity to invade dwindling.

He didn't have to invade, he could have just accepted Ukraine isn't Russia.

 

[IlovethePies]

NATO expansion has 0 to do with this war, outside Putin saw his opportunity to invade dwindling.

 

[Cap]

I realise you are balls deep in Russian propaganda.

But why, if Nato was such a threat, has Putin taken the majority of his military assets from the border of NATO countries to shoot women and children in Ukraine

Hmmmm

 

[IlovethePies]

I realise you are balls deep in Russian propaganda.

But why, if Nato was such a threat, has Putin taken the majority of his military assets from the border of NATO countries to shoot women and children in Ukraine

Hmmmm

I am sorry, but this actually makes no sense whatsoever.

Ukraine is on the border with Russia.
There is an ongoing war in Donbass, the eastern section of Ukraine populated predominantly by ethnic Russians.

Ukraine is being directly funded and armed by NATO.

Please try to think your posts through before committing to posting them.

 

[Cap]

I am sorry, but this actually makes no sense whatsoever.

They have a border with more than Ukraine. Perhaps check a map

Ukraine is on the border with Russia.
There is an ongoing war in Donbass, the eastern section of Ukraine populated predominantly by ethnic Russians.

Yes, started by Russia under the pretense of 'protecting Russian speakers'.

At least you still acknowledge its Ukrainian land . Maybe don't stand near any windows.

Ukraine is being directly funded and armed by NATO.

Thats not really how it works, but I understand given you way of thinking you don't see nuance in it.

Please try to think your posts through before committing to posting them.

perhaps open up a map, understand borders and who is and who isn't part of nato and maybe even follow whats happenedin the war.

 

[IlovethePies]

They have a border with more than Ukraine. Perhaps check a map

Yes, started by Russia under the pretense of 'protecting Russian speakers'.

At least you still acknowledge its Ukrainian land . Maybe don't stand near any windows.


Thats not really how it works, but I understand given you way of thinking you don't see nuance in it.

perhaps open up a map, understand borders and who is and who isn't part of nato and maybe even follow whats happenedin the war.

Only reason I keep replying to you is because you keep spreading pro US /NATO lies, and I want to make sure the refutation is posted here as well.

After the Maidan coup an extreme right wing Ukrainian nationalist government,which was totally pro-US/NATO, was installed.

It immediately began to promote anti Russian xenophobia. The Russian speaking population in the Donbass reacted by trying to secede from Ukraine, and join Russia. The Ukrainian government launched a bombardment of Donbass in response.

Russia became involved because a civil war was raging on its borders, and it was seeking to block the military expansion of NATO to its border and potentially beyond

You never back up your claims with any actual analysis. There is a good reason for this. It is because you can't.

 

[Cap]

Only reason I keep replying to you is because you keep spreading pro US /NATO lies, and I want to make sure the refutation is posted here as well.

Everyone who reads your posts who knows anything about this war knows you are just regurgitating Russian propaganda.

It's nice you've stopped pretending

After the Maidan coup an extreme right wing Ukrainian nationalist government,which was totally pro-US/NATO, was installed.

Lol.

Can you still taste it? Or have you washed it down

It immediately began to promote anti Russian xenophobia. The Russian speaking population in the Donbass reacted by trying to secede from Ukraine, and join Russia. The Ukrainian government launched a bombardment of Donbass in response.

Nope, going in for seconds I see.

Russia became involved because a civil war was raging on its borders, and it was seeking to block the military expansion of NATO to its border and potentially beyond

Yes, Russia had nothing to do with it, has no track record of doing it, completely innocent

You never back up your claims with any actual analysis. There is a good reason for this. It is because you can't.

You literally regurgitate Russian propaganda and want others to provide actual analysis.

i hope they are promising you a nice piece of Ukrainian land

 

[barreness]

another salient point.

Yeah I'm not wrong.

NATO expansion has 0 to do with this war, outside Putin saw his opportunity to invade dwindling.

He didn't have to invade, he could have just accepted Ukraine isn't Russia.

This is true, but naive. It was warned by Putin some 2 decades earlier and by the(now) head of the CIA too, Ukraine was a red line, his bluff was called and he wasn't bluffing

You have to believe that an empire isn't going to empire, it's a strange view of history

 

[Cap]

This is true, but naive. It was warned by Putin some 2 decades earlier and by the(now) head of the CIA too, Ukraine was a red line, his bluff was called and he wasn't bluffing

You have to believe that an empire isn't going to empire, it's a strange view of history

Russia didn't need to be an empire again, that's driven by Putin.

The loss of face he felt as Eastern Europe turned westward didn't need to be personal, he could have instead tried to make Russia better

 

[Zidane98]

Sure Russia wasn't involved in the Donbass war.

A Russian BUK Telar missile system just happened to magically appear in Eastern Ukraine after travelling from Kursk all by itself murdering 298 civilians on MH17 all because Girkin thought it was a good idea to shoot anything that appears on radar out of the sky without identifying it first.

 

[Zidane98]

This is true, but naive. It was warned by Putin some 2 decades earlier and by the(now) head of the CIA too, Ukraine was a red line, his bluff was called and he wasn't bluffing

You have to believe that an empire isn't going to empire, it's a strange view of history

Instead of trying to expand the Russian empire Putin should be focused on what he has with Belarus & central Asian states.

Only a dictator would still be continuing the war he is fighting which absolutely has zero benefit to the so called Russian Federation.

 

[Cap]

Instead of trying to expand the Russian empire Putin should be focused on what he has with Belarus & central Asian states.

Only a dictator would still be continuing the war he is fighting which absolutely has zero benefit to the so called Russian Federation.

Belarus was a stupid idea too, its just another way Putin has pissed away Russias influence and money.

Once the war is over and Putin is executed the world is going to see the monumental disaster Putin has inflicted on Russia and its future