Ban the Bounce

[MC Extra Dollop]

but you can throw it as high as you like....you're not limited on the throw up.

That makes absolutely no sense.

The bounce down part takes less than half a second, they get essentially no more time in reality because they have to wait to see where it goes!!! Especially when the bounce goes somewhat sideways and one ruckman has to stand there anyway. Its not like they need a lot of time anyway now with the ruck circle.

Half a second is a long time, when you're talking about running about 5 metres. Plenty of time for a ruckman to adjust and actually react to an unknown, if it doesn't go straight, although there is of course, no reason why it shouldn't.

 

[Randomizor]

I'm sick of the variation of depth in boundary throw ins. Surely we don't want the fittest, most keen-eyed boundary umps stymied by the fact they have to perform 1 act of skill?

While we're at it, some players have trouble kicking for goal. Couldn't we make it so you just have to get the ball right up one end to score?

And the goal umpires have to wave those flags. Think about the potential for shoulder injuries!

 

[Apsaalooke]

And the data to back up all your against is?

"The AFLUA says there are three good reasons to dispense totally with the bounce, the issue of fairness to competing ruckmen, the continuing difficulty of finding enough umpires to officiate at the elite level, and injuries.

The last factor continues to plague senior umpires. Many have on-going treatment from doctors and physiotherapists for back injuries caused by repeated bouncing of the football. And two, Andrew Mitchell and Ben Ryan, both required shoulder reconstructions during the off-season.

"We want our best umpires on the park each and every week, and that's being impacted by injury," AFLUA chief executive Peter Howe said on Tuesday. "It's fair to say there's a large majority of senior umpires on the list who'd prefer not to bounce."

 

[Kram]

Absolutely isnt.
Bouncing a footy is a lot harder than kicking it 40m to a point on the ground.

I've done both.

Put it this way the average umpire could kick a 40m drop punt. The average footballer cant bounce the ball sufficiently and consistently enough to be an umpire.

lol, it's not that hard to bounce the ball up straight. When I played we used to occasionally muck around trying it and probably about at least 75% were good, actually being an umpire and putting proper practice into it surely wouldn't be hard to get say 95% right. Or maybe you are just uncoordinated...

 

[speedpeck23]

lol, it's not that hard to bounce the ball up straight. When I played we used to occasionally muck around trying it and probably about at least 75% were good, actually being an umpire and putting proper practice into it surely wouldn't be hard to get say 95% right. Or maybe you are just uncoordinated...

Agree. But is it even that important that the umpire creates a good bounce ? The random bounce by the umpire forces players to spread and possession is more dependant on player reflex and anticipation rather than obstructive set plays around a predictable ball up which just feed congestion. If the ruckman don't get first touch too bad, play on. The ball bounces unpredictably all over the ground during the game....the umpire only has to allow that to continue after a stoppage. Of course a round ball would produce a more predictable bounce....

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Why can we have a tiny automatic pin from under the ground that pushes the ball into the air then disappears - the ball going the same height in the centre every time?

Remove the umps from it so they can focus on umprigin the scraggers and add some more technology !!!

 

[Stefan_Carey]

Go grab your football, go outside and bounce the ball like an umpire. Sure it isn't easy but some of the people in this thread make it sound like the umpires are kicking freak goals like Eddie Betts. I can do it, as I'm sure the vast majority of posters can too and the only "practice" I've had is goofing off at training.

I'm sure there was a reason the bounce was in our game to start with. It's not like people in the '50s never thought "oh hey you know what we can just throw the ball up and there will be less deviation" and for anyone who would argue "But they have drop in pitches now blah blah" the umpires could bounce everywhere on a crappy suburban oval.

TBH I believe the reason for the bounce is to stop the Auskick stoppages we get today, If the ball is bounced and never recalled that element of a random bounce will cause stoppage players to spread out to minimise the damage of a detrimental bounce. Remember when they started throwing the ball up around the ground they were saying "Oh look now the game flows better, look the score are higher, etc ,etc" the very next season all these stats went back to normality. What does it matter if play is reset quickly if there are 3 ball-ups for every bounce? Besides all this I think the new stricter holding the ball interpretations have reduced stoppages 1000000000000000000 times more than throwing a ball up could and I'm pretty sure that came AFTER we gutted the bounce from the game.

Why don't we recall boundary throw-ins if they fall short? Why should the umpire throw it over their shoulder? That can't be good for their back!!! No they should turn around face the players and throw it in like a line-out in Rugby then they can more effectively aim for the ruckmen.

I guess the worst thing about rule changes within the AFL is that the arrogant money counters will never ever admit they were wrong and revert a rule entirely, no no no everyone knows if you swallow a fly you better go eat a spider, then a bird, etc, etc.

/rant

 

[gavaniacono]

The bounce and its integral uncertainty is actually therapeutic to the masses and a cure for the inability to cope with surprises. Keeping the bounce and never recalling it will reduce anxiety, health bills, stress disorders, and pave the way for a healthy outlook on life that promotes optimism despite odd occurences. Learning to deal with uncertainty is in fact the anti-dote to rationalization and positivism, curses of western civilization. The Bounce, in short, is our Saviour. Our cultural and psychological catholicon, the impetus for creativity, and affirmation of life.
Amen.

 

[Apsaalooke]

The bounce and its integral uncertainty is actually therapeutic to the masses and a cure for the inability to cope with surprises. Keeping the bounce and never recalling it will reduce anxiety, health bills, stress disorders, and pave the way for a healthy outlook on life that promotes optimism despite odd occurences. Learning to deal with uncertainty is in fact the anti-dote to rationalization and positivism, curses of western civilization. The Bounce, in short, is our Saviour. Our cultural and psychological catholicon, the impetus for creativity, and affirmation of life.
Amen.

...and I heard it cures cancer

 

[DangerSloane]

lol, it's not that hard to bounce the ball up straight. When I played we used to occasionally muck around trying it and probably about at least 75% were good, actually being an umpire and putting proper practice into it surely wouldn't be hard to get say 95% right. Or maybe you are just uncoordinated...

Well I played quite high level amateur footy and about 1 in 6 or 7 players could get a nice high enough straight bounce 1 time out of 10.

There was 1 bloke that could do it about 4 or 5 times outta 10.

Its a lot harder...

 

[Kram]

Well I played quite high level amateur footy and about 1 in 6 or 7 players could get a nice high enough straight bounce 1 time out of 10.

There was 1 bloke that could do it about 4 or 5 times outta 10.

Its a lot harder...

lmao absolute bullshit.

 

[DangerSloane]

lmao absolute bullshit.

Alright you grab the average person off the street and see how they go bouncing a footy to a decent height/straightness. Kicking a footy is by far the easier skill, not to mention the fact that I'm yet to meet anyone whose mum or dad took them out in the backyard twice a week to practice bouncing the ball.

How hard is it you ask?
Well I actually did it... went out as a promotion for the SANFL years ago.

Very very few people, even with 5 attempts, could get one bounce high and straight.

Tell me again how you know how easy it is, with anecdotal evidence.

 

[DemonTim]

Alright you grab the average person off the street and see how they go bouncing a footy to a decent height/straightness. Kicking a footy is by far the easier skill, not to mention the fact that I'm yet to meet anyone whose mum or dad took them out in the backyard twice a week to practice bouncing the ball.

How hard is it you ask?
Well I actually did it... went out as a promotion for the SANFL years ago.

Very very few people, even with 5 attempts, could get one bounce high and straight.

Tell me again how you know how easy it is, with anecdotal evidence.

Isn't that what you're doing, but just saying it's hard?

Seems it's pretty easy for players and umpires in vic but not sa

Did an umpire bounce a ball and kill your family with it or something?

 

[Kram]

Alright you grab the average person off the street and see how they go bouncing a footy to a decent height/straightness. Kicking a footy is by far the easier skill, not to mention the fact that I'm yet to meet anyone whose mum or dad took them out in the backyard twice a week to practice bouncing the ball.

How hard is it you ask?
Well I actually did it... went out as a promotion for the SANFL years ago.

Very very few people, even with 5 attempts, could get one bounce high and straight.

Tell me again how you know how easy it is, with anecdotal evidence.

Well lucky they don't just grab random people off the street to do the job as league football umpires.. I'd say a fair % of random people off the street can't kick a footy for shit either. Look I'm not saying it's 'easy' bouncing the ball but it's hardly the mystical and amazingly difficult art that only a tiny amount of people in the world can master that you are trying to make out.

 

[yodellinhank]

Alright you grab the average person off the street and see how they go bouncing a footy to a decent height/straightness. Kicking a footy is by far the easier skill, not to mention the fact that I'm yet to meet anyone whose mum or dad took them out in the backyard twice a week to practice bouncing the ball.

How hard is it you ask?
Well I actually did it... went out as a promotion for the SANFL years ago.

Very very few people, even with 5 attempts, could get one bounce high and straight.

Tell me again how you know how easy it is, with anecdotal evidence.

Why compare it to kicking a footy? Why not compare it to bouncing a footy?

 

[DangerSloane]

Why compare it to kicking a footy? Why not compare it to bouncing a footy?

Well look how many people that have played their whole lives screw up a running bounce. Theres a lot more room for error on a running bounce than a centre bounce.

Is that a better comparison?

 

[DangerSloane]

Well lucky they don't just grab random people off the street to do the job as league football umpires.. I'd say a fair % of random people off the street can't kick a footy for shit either. Look I'm not saying it's 'easy' bouncing the ball but it's hardly the mystical and amazingly difficult art that only a tiny amount of people in the world can master that you are trying to make out.

I'd like to see you have a go, even with a couple of weeks training.

Then try to do it after running 5 or 6km.

I am yet to hear a reason that points to keeping it.
So far the only thing I've heard is 'tradition' and 'i like it when the commentators say "and the ump goes whack"'

So these guys that are full time umpires spending hours on it in a week cant do it, what makes you think that others can? Its laughable.

 

[DangerSloane]

Why can we have a tiny automatic pin from under the ground that pushes the ball into the air then disappears - the ball going the same height in the centre every time?

Remove the umps from it so they can focus on umprigin the scraggers and add some more technology !!!

We used to have a plate so the umps could bounce it properly.

Yes thats right we needed to put a hard piece of material under the ground sot hat the ball could be bounced high enough. But yes...tell me again how its an easy skill and anyone with practice can do it.

Shaun Rehn did his knee on it, and sued the AFL.

 

[DemonTim]

We used to have a plate so the umps could bounce it properly.

Yes thats right we needed to put a hard piece of material under the ground sot hat the ball could be bounced high enough. But yes...tell me again how its an easy skill and anyone with practice can do it.

Shaun Rehn did his knee on it, and sued the AFL.

Again, just because you say it's not easy doesn't mean it's not

Jesus. Now comparing to a running bounce, (sure players **** that up) but every player SHOULD be able to do it, even in bottom leagues

Why are you persisting with this "it's too hard" crap?

 

[DangerSloane]

Again, just because you say it's not easy doesn't mean it's not

Jesus. Now comparing to a running bounce, (sure players **** that up) but every player SHOULD be able to do it, even in bottom leagues

Why are you persisting with this "it's too hard" crap?

Because put simply there are umpires that are great decision makers and would make the game better who for whatever reason (their choice or not being selected) are not pursuing it because of the bounce factor.

Did you read the article I posted earlier. Umpires are saying it, players are saying it, officials are saying it.

I dont know about you but I'd prefer a better standard of umpiring, and if thats even a slight possibility by getting rid of a superfluous part of our game, then why is it not worth considering?

Generally the way to tell if something isnt easy is to watch people that practice it day in and day out not succeed when attempting it... pretty good indication.

For example a snowboarder trying to do a double backflip.... well most of the time they crash or dont land it properly. Does that tell you its hard? When those guys are spending hours per week practicing it...

 

[DemonTim]

Because put simply there are umpires that are great decision makers and would make the game better who for whatever reason (their choice or not being selected) are not pursuing it because of the bounce factor.

Did you read the article I posted earlier. Umpires are saying it, players are saying it, officials are saying it.

I dont know about you but I'd prefer a better standard of umpiring, and if thats even a slight possibility by getting rid of a superfluous part of our game, then why is it not worth considering?

Generally the way to tell if something isnt easy is to watch people that practice it day in and day out not succeed when attempting it... pretty good indication.

For example a snowboarder trying to do a double backflip.... well most of the time they crash or dont land it properly. Does that tell you its hard? When those guys are spending hours per week practicing it...

There is no evidence for what you're suggesting. I asked for evidence of umpires being held back. There was none

Practice it day in day out? When? The umpires aren't even full time, which umpires are practicing bouncing day in day out. Why does practicing one skill preclude an being able to make a decision

Shit. I wish I could use this excuse in my job and still rangle over 100k

 

[chiwigi]

As soon as they went down the 'recall a bad baounce' idea, they had made the decision that the bounce wasn't important. Just get rid of it.

I'm trying to think of another sport where a random act of an OFFICIAL can have repercussions on the outcome of the game (other than incorrect decisions, and even there we are now reviewing with replays etc). It would be like a cricket umpire tossing the ball to the fielding team at the start of the game, and whoever it lands near has to open the bowling.

This, keep the bounce and enjoy the randdomness, if it has to be perfect every time theres no point.

 

[Randomizor]

I'd like to see you have a go, even with a couple of weeks training.

Then try to do it after running 5 or 6km.

I am yet to hear a reason that points to keeping it.
So far the only thing I've heard is 'tradition' and 'i like it when the commentators say "and the ump goes whack"'

So these guys that are full time umpires spending hours on it in a week cant do it, what makes you think that others can? Its laughable.

What's wrong with those reasons? The AFL exists for entertainment so why shouldn't we be able to justify keeping something because it... wait for it... entertains us?

 

[DangerSloane]

There is no evidence for what you're suggesting. I asked for evidence of umpires being held back. There was none

Practice it day in day out? When? The umpires aren't even full time, which umpires are practicing bouncing day in day out. Why does practicing one skill preclude an being able to make a decision

Shit. I wish I could use this excuse in my job and still rangle over 100k

I dont have the evidence... How am I ever going to get it.
The evidence comes from the officials and umpires stating there is a problem, as they are the people in the know.

You're over thinking this.

You're asking why being good at the bounce precludes being able to make a decision, but that makes no sense.
The fact is there are two limiting abilities to being an AFL umpire (maybe more but 2 we're talking about here). Decision making, and bouncing the ball. If you cant do both you dont get in. Therefore by cutting the pool, you are likely (statistically) excluding some umpires that are better decision makers.

Well someone is paying you to not make any sense on BF... so I hope making sense of facts isnt part of your job.

 

[DangerSloane]

What's wrong with those reasons? The AFL exists for entertainment so why shouldn't we be able to justify keeping something because it... wait for it... entertains us?

Depends what kinda price you wanna put on it.

I find the game more entertaining with less umpiring mistakes.
I find the game more entertaining when there isnt a need to recall bounces.
I find the game more entertaining when rucks run and jump at each other.

I dont think removing the bounce and a more entertaining game are even close to mutually exclusive.