Bendigo FL discussion 2023

[localfootyguru]

You keep shooting down every alternative so I would love to hear in a detail your plan and how you would stop the disconnect. If a young person wants to be drafted and misses out then they will be disappointed. Not sure how you stop that? Young people do not have the resilience to dust themselves off these days. Many walk away from the game because they didn't get drafted or a bad experience at NAB league level. (I have provided these experiences myself which I regret). Academies at U/17 & 18 level mean that clubs need to invest in them or it will cost them success. In combination with a zone, a bigger budget, then in my mind it is the best plan.Academies at U/12,U/13, U/14 level need to be disbanded. This is where we lose a lot of young players.

Some great debate here about the way the system has changed. A couple of points from my perspective/ experience,

- Many younger players are brought up in family environments where the family cannot send their child to a private school for a range of reasons. If they have ability to progress their footy further and the NAB system becomes second level, where does it leave them? This focus on private schools and recruitment is just making the game more ’elite’ and taking it away from a large proportion of the population.

- Private schools set up academies and scholarships at times to gain funding from governments and other bodies. In some respects this all sounds like a bit of a wrought. Take a young person out of their home environment on the promise they have some football ability and then things don’t work out. Where does that leave them especially if they are not academically minded?

- I am not a supporter of the NAB system either and my thoughts on this have been well documented on here previously. The only bonus is that young men can generally stay closer to home which isn’t a bad thing. I do agree with Ringo that lots of false dreams are created and the number of so called experts that are involved is something else. I have never seen so many white board holders and statistics collectors in my life when I had some involvement many years ago.

- I would love to see far more investment in country football and a recognition that players who have the ability to ‘make it’ dont have to necessarily be part of these systens as such. I have seen many young men progress further over my time and their rise was due in part of playing senior football against seasoned and experienced players. I wish recruiters would get their ‘head out if the sand’ and go out and watch community football more as their are some ‘gems’ out there. It should be noted that some of the ‘so called’ recruiters wouldn’t know where half the clubs are located as they spend the majority if their time watching footage.

- Times are again changing but not necessarily for the better. Again if the system goes the way it seems to be, many young players who head to private schools will be lost to their home/ original club and potentially the game due to the amount of ‘bullish.t’ that is fed to both the individual and their family about how their child is going to ‘make it’. If they do continue to play after not being drafted, it would be highly likely with a ‘cashed up’ metropolitan club. Again country footy is being ‘walked all over’ and no one seems to care or have a voice to express concerns about where the game is heading in rural areas.

 

[bidge]

The Sam Murray's, Joe Richards of the world who get picked up straight from country footy will become less and less as pathways continue to align around private schools and school footy. Sam and Joe had amazing seasons that and watching some of the games and reading reports they were a level above in the Ovens and Murray during that year. But their recruitment only comes on the back of Ben Reid and Daryn Cresswell supporting there case in the media and with their AFL connections. I am sure there would be 20 or more people playing across Victoria in 2023 if given the opportunity would make it on an AFL list and actually go on to have a serviceable AFL career. They just need their own Ben Reid or Daryn Cresswell.

The amount of media around private school games and the highly touted draft picks have increased in the last 10 years. The Jack Watts/ Jobs Watson era really increased the amount of involvement schools had in the media and the scouting of talent. Channel 7/ AFL.com.au visiting schools to interview Year 12 students, teachers and catch game footage, really started an American style fixation on a young persons schooling which we see so often with High school talent in the states.

It doesn't matter what sports we discuss the pressure and expectations on young people continues to harm future prospects. We know that young people develop, learn and grow at different rates yet Basketball, cricket, netball, soccer, rugby or football all have junior pathway programs which fast track 'advanced' 10-12 yr old boys and girls. The amount of support staff 'hangers on' and develop coaches who then go say they discovered and fostered the talent is ridiculous.


It's sad that one small mistake, poor shot, poor game, poor option or injury at 10-15 can impact selection for the next five years. As has been discussed it often causes people to leave the sport. But we seem to watch young people, sons/daughters, brothers/sisters lose interest with other commitments such as work, social life and friendships taking over. The love they had for the sport, is often taken away as their friends don't progress, and they find the fun has been taken away.

I have noted we have been discussing AGSV.
Assumption College won the AGSV Grand Final. 22 players maybe more make up the squad. Harry Rowston and Cooper Harvey get drafted Jedd Longmire signs on with Collingwood VFL. Haven't heard updates on any others. (Sorry)
Having watched the final online it takes every player in a team sport. We all now wonder but what happens to the rest of the squad who possibly gave up their opportunity to play NAB League, get drafted or Senior football this season to play 'school football' as that becomes priority in their scholarship. We need a clearer system which supports young people with both academics and sports. With an AFL career lasting 30 odd games or 2.5 Years in the system, it is hardly a life long career. A top 20 draft pick earns $105,000 a year - pick 40+ earns $90,000 it isn't setting anyone up for long term financial security in this current economy.

Watching the Sunday Football show during the season you only have to listen to Matthew Lloyd discuss his links to
'Haileybury' and the AIS, to see the amazing resources students at private schools have within their development. You wouldn't be able to say the same of some schools in Bendigo, Shepparton, Albury- Wodonga or other regional areas in Victoria or Australia. They are being passionately coached by the local football stalwart who may have been around the AFL/VFL/ State League 10-15 years previously, who is also teaching multiple classes on campus and taking not only the schools Senior Football team but also a local club on the weekend.

In some respects local football clubs should spend more time building and fostering the talent of players number 10-22 on their junior list. The kids who could give up in the next two or three years but really love playing. They may develop late but forget them, often clubs give time to get kids to the NAB league or drafted, they celebrate it on social media. But don't forget the ones who may choose to stay locally, complete an apprenticeship, University/TAFE and devote their time to the football club, we are all about creating life long supporters of sport, better people and if given the time ,encouragement and opportunity by coaches maybe a volunteer for the club in the future...
Maybe just a thought...

 

[ringo1]

Some great debate here about the way the system has changed. A couple of points from my perspective/ experience,

- Many younger players are brought up in family environments where the family cannot send their child to a private school for a range of reasons. If they have ability to progress their footy further and the NAB system becomes second level, where does it leave them? This focus on private schools and recruitment is just making the game more ’elite’ and taking it away from a large proportion of the population.

- Private schools set up academies and scholarships at times to gain funding from governments and other bodies. In some respects this all sounds like a bit if a wrought. Take a young person out of their home environment on the promise they have some football ability and then things don’t work out. Where does that leave them especially if they are not academically minded?

- I am not a supporter of the NAB system either and my thoughts on this have been well documented on here previously. The only bonus is that young men can generally stay closer to home which isn’t a bad thing. I do agree with Ringo that lots of false dreams are created and the number of so called experts that are involved is something else. I have never seen so many white board holders and statistics collectors in my life when I had some involvement many years ago.

- I would love to see far more investment in country football and a recognition that players who have the ability to ‘make it’ dont have to necessarily be part of these systens as such. I have seen many young men progress further over my time and their rise was due in part of playing senior football against seasoned and experienced players. I wish recruiters would get their ‘head out if the sand’ and go out and watch community football more as their are some ‘gems’ out there. It should be noted that some of the ‘so called’ recruiters wouldn’t know where half the clubs are located as they spend the majority if their time watching footage.

- Times are again changing but not necessarily for the better. Again if the system goes the way it seems to be, many young players who head to private schools will be lost to their home/ original club and potentially the game due to the amount of ‘bullish.t’ that is fed to both the individual and their family about how their child is going to ‘make it’. If they do continue to play after not being drafted, it would be highly likely with a ‘cashed up’ metropolitan club. Again country footy is being ‘walked all over’ and no one seems to care or have a voice to express concerns about where the game is heading in rural areas.

Some great points here and BlueJet has some valid points. However unless as you said something is done then country football will continue to wither on the vine. Clubs have disappeared prior to the last 10 years but never have we seen Major league clubs under threat. Corowa, Castlemaine, Maryborough, Shepparton United are all experiencing difficulties that may be difficult to overcome. Benalla scrapped through the 2022 season and look likely to return to finals.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Some great points here and BlueJet has some valid points. However unless as you said something is done then country football will continue to wither on the vine. Clubs have disappeared prior to the last 10 years but never have we seen Major league clubs under threat. Corowa, Castlemaine, Maryborough, Shepparton United are all experiencing difficulties that may be difficult to overcome. Benalla scrapped through the 2022 season and look likely to return to finals.

Some insightful conversation and debate on here these past few days. Wonderful reading of sentiment and experience from posters from a wide range of boards across Regional and the EDFL.
Respectful discourse from all apart from one clown (RIP Maxy) is why most of us are on these various threads talking about the game we love: country/metro footy!

Not often you encounter this level of sustained informed opinion on one board. Personally, I am a person happy to read some of these views that either reinforce my own, or better still, force me to reconsider my views on what is (in this instance) the best future recruiting pathway. Great stuff!!

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

The Sam Murray's, Joe Richards of the world who get picked up straight from country footy will become less and less as pathways continue to align around private schools and school footy. Sam and Joe had amazing seasons that and watching some of the games and reading reports they were a level above in the Ovens and Murray during that year. But their recruitment only comes on the back of Ben Reid and Daryn Cresswell supporting there case in the media and with their AFL connections. I am sure there would be 20 or more people playing across Victoria in 2023 if given the opportunity would make it on an AFL list and actually go on to have a serviceable AFL career. They just need their own Ben Reid or Daryn Cresswell.

The amount of media around private school games and the highly touted draft picks have increased in the last 10 years. The Jack Watts/ Jobs Watson era really increased the amount of involvement schools had in the media and the scouting of talent. Channel 7/ AFL.com.au visiting schools to interview Year 12 students, teachers and catch game footage, really started an American style fixation on a young persons schooling which we see so often with High school talent in the states.

It doesn't matter what sports we discuss the pressure and expectations on young people continues to harm future prospects. We know that young people develop, learn and grow at different rates yet Basketball, cricket, netball, soccer, rugby or football all have junior pathway programs which fast track 'advanced' 10-12 yr old boys and girls. The amount of support staff 'hangers on' and develop coaches who then go say they discovered and fostered the talent is ridiculous.


It's sad that one small mistake, poor shot, poor game, poor option or injury at 10-15 can impact selection for the next five years. As has been discussed it often causes people to leave the sport. But we seem to watch young people, sons/daughters, brothers/sisters lose interest with other commitments such as work, social life and friendships taking over. The love they had for the sport, is often taken away as their friends don't progress, and they find the fun has been taken away.

I have noted we have been discussing AGSV.
Assumption College won the AGSV Grand Final. 22 players maybe more make up the squad. Harry Rowston and Cooper Harvey get drafted Jedd Longmire signs on with Collingwood VFL. Haven't heard updates on any others. (Sorry)
Having watched the final online it takes every player in a team sport. We all now wonder but what happens to the rest of the squad who possibly gave up their opportunity to play NAB League, get drafted or Senior football this season to play 'school football' as that becomes priority in their scholarship. We need a clearer system which supports young people with both academics and sports. With an AFL career lasting 30 odd games or 2.5 Years in the system, it is hardly a life long career. A top 20 draft pick earns $105,000 a year - pick 40+ earns $90,000 it isn't setting anyone up for long term financial security in this current economy.

Watching the Sunday Football show during the season you only have to listen to Matthew Lloyd discuss his links to
'Haileybury' and the AIS, to see the amazing resources students at private schools have within their development. You wouldn't be able to say the same of some schools in Bendigo, Shepparton, Albury- Wodonga or other regional areas in Victoria or Australia. They are being passionately coached by the local football stalwart who may have been around the AFL/VFL/ State League 10-15 years previously, who is also teaching multiple classes on campus and taking not only the schools Senior Football team but also a local club on the weekend.

In some respects local football clubs should spend more time building and fostering the talent of players number 10-22 on their junior list. The kids who could give up in the next two or three years but really love playing. They may develop late but forget them, often clubs give time to get kids to the NAB league or drafted, they celebrate it on social media. But don't forget the ones who may choose to stay locally, complete an apprenticeship, University/TAFE and devote their time to the football club, we are all about creating life long supporters of sport, better people and if given the time ,encouragement and opportunity by coaches maybe a volunteer for the club in the future...
Maybe just a thought...

It's interesting if your not a star at 17 at this level you're bypassed today. I'll say that Nathan Buckley, diesal and Gary Ablett senior are comfortably in the top 10 players I've ever seen play AFL, all started in their 20s overlooked and 18? Would they make it now, I doubt it, add in James hird who was taken pick 79 I think and was allowed to develop his game for a couple of years in the reserves because of bigger list sizes, he'd be overlooked today as well, then you have dusty and Swan I doubt whether they'd be picked up.

It seems the AFL are keen to turn it into a college American system, where there's school footy, AFL and nothing else, bigger tv revenue is the driver, where very few at AFL hq care about the fabric of the game and its appeal in every local town, they are all private school system, where if the new AFL ceo is picked from within, I'd hate to see the state of the below AFL tiers of footy in 5 years.

Pretty sure Craig Kelly who's one of gils best mates and player manager is in charge of school footy as well, and theres why theres the private push

 

[ringo1]

The Sam Murray's, Joe Richards of the world who get picked up straight from country footy will become less and less as pathways continue to align around private schools and school footy. Sam and Joe had amazing seasons that and watching some of the games and reading reports they were a level above in the Ovens and Murray during that year. But their recruitment only comes on the back of Ben Reid and Daryn Cresswell supporting there case in the media and with their AFL connections. I am sure there would be 20 or more people playing across Victoria in 2023 if given the opportunity would make it on an AFL list and actually go on to have a serviceable AFL career. They just need their own Ben Reid or Daryn Cresswell.

The amount of media around private school games and the highly touted draft picks have increased in the last 10 years. The Jack Watts/ Jobs Watson era really increased the amount of involvement schools had in the media and the scouting of talent. Channel 7/ AFL.com.au visiting schools to interview Year 12 students, teachers and catch game footage, really started an American style fixation on a young persons schooling which we see so often with High school talent in the states.

It doesn't matter what sports we discuss the pressure and expectations on young people continues to harm future prospects. We know that young people develop, learn and grow at different rates yet Basketball, cricket, netball, soccer, rugby or football all have junior pathway programs which fast track 'advanced' 10-12 yr old boys and girls. The amount of support staff 'hangers on' and develop coaches who then go say they discovered and fostered the talent is ridiculous.


It's sad that one small mistake, poor shot, poor game, poor option or injury at 10-15 can impact selection for the next five years. As has been discussed it often causes people to leave the sport. But we seem to watch young people, sons/daughters, brothers/sisters lose interest with other commitments such as work, social life and friendships taking over. The love they had for the sport, is often taken away as their friends don't progress, and they find the fun has been taken away.

I have noted we have been discussing AGSV.
Assumption College won the AGSV Grand Final. 22 players maybe more make up the squad. Harry Rowston and Cooper Harvey get drafted Jedd Longmire signs on with Collingwood VFL. Haven't heard updates on any others. (Sorry)
Having watched the final online it takes every player in a team sport. We all now wonder but what happens to the rest of the squad who possibly gave up their opportunity to play NAB League, get drafted or Senior football this season to play 'school football' as that becomes priority in their scholarship. We need a clearer system which supports young people with both academics and sports. With an AFL career lasting 30 odd games or 2.5 Years in the system, it is hardly a life long career. A top 20 draft pick earns $105,000 a year - pick 40+ earns $90,000 it isn't setting anyone up for long term financial security in this current economy.

Watching the Sunday Football show during the season you only have to listen to Matthew Lloyd discuss his links to
'Haileybury' and the AIS, to see the amazing resources students at private schools have within their development. You wouldn't be able to say the same of some schools in Bendigo, Shepparton, Albury- Wodonga or other regional areas in Victoria or Australia. They are being passionately coached by the local football stalwart who may have been around the AFL/VFL/ State League 10-15 years previously, who is also teaching multiple classes on campus and taking not only the schools Senior Football team but also a local club on the weekend.

In some respects local football clubs should spend more time building and fostering the talent of players number 10-22 on their junior list. The kids who could give up in the next two or three years but really love playing. They may develop late but forget them, often clubs give time to get kids to the NAB league or drafted, they celebrate it on social media. But don't forget the ones who may choose to stay locally, complete an apprenticeship, University/TAFE and devote their time to the football club, we are all about creating life long supporters of sport, better people and if given the time ,encouragement and opportunity by coaches maybe a volunteer for the club in the future...
Maybe just a thought.

This is a great point and annoys me no end! local clubs and coaches spend the most important years with these players. In the male competitions most fine motor skills are developed by the age of 12. Fathers, mothers, local coaches and clubs are rarely acknowledged on draft night. A terrific post.

 

[Truck]

It's interesting if your not a star at 17 at this level you're bypassed today. I'll say that Nathan Buckley, diesal and Gary Ablett senior are comfortably in the top 10 players I've ever seen play AFL, all started in their 20s overlooked and 18? Would they make it now, I doubt it, add in James hird who was taken pick 79 I think and was allowed to develop his game for a couple of years in the reserves because of bigger list sizes, he'd be overlooked today as well, then you have dusty and Swan I doubt whether they'd be picked up.

It seems the AFL are keen to turn it into a college American system, where there's school footy, AFL and nothing else, bigger tv revenue is the driver, where very few at AFL hq care about the fabric of the game and its appeal in every local town, they are all private school system, where if the new AFL ceo is picked from within, I'd hate to see the state of the below AFL tiers of footy in 5 years.

Pretty sure Craig Kelly who's one of gils best mates and player manager is in charge of school footy as well, and theres why theres the private push

Was it Adam Simpson a few years back said it would soon be that we only draft from Private schools, as they are “safer” picks.
Then had to apologize?

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Was it Adam Simpson a few years back said it would soon be that we only draft from Private schools, as they are “safer” picks.
Then had to apologize?

Exactly truck

 

[Post padding]

Was it Adam Simpson a few years back said it would soon be that we only draft from Private schools, as they are “safer” picks.
Then had to apologize?

And that’s working out well for the Eagles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fatkidinthepocket]

It's interesting if your not a star at 17 at this level you're bypassed today. I'll say that Nathan Buckley, diesal and Gary Ablett senior are comfortably in the top 10 players I've ever seen play AFL, all started in their 20s overlooked and 18? Would they make it now, I doubt it, add in James hird who was taken pick 79 I think and was allowed to develop his game for a couple of years in the reserves because of bigger list sizes, he'd be overlooked today as well, then you have dusty and Swan I doubt whether they'd be picked up.

It seems the AFL are keen to turn it into a college American system, where there's school footy, AFL and nothing else, bigger tv revenue is the driver, where very few at AFL hq care about the fabric of the game and its appeal in every local town, they are all private school system, where if the new AFL ceo is picked from within, I'd hate to see the state of the below AFL tiers of footy in 5 years.

Pretty sure Craig Kelly who's one of gils best mates and player manager is in charge of school footy as well, and theres why theres the private push

Boxhead appointed CEO at Collingwood

 

[GG Rides Again]

I might be a bit sceptical but have been thinking about school football falling under AFL control and giving the AFL a mid week comp to sell along with TV rights to increase the TV spend back into the game? Happens with College Sports in America ( and yes I know we aren't America).
Has to be an angle there somewhere as makes no sense to weaken country/metro footy removing the best players from a younger age unless the AFL would profit financially.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

I might be a bit sceptical but have been thinking about school football falling under AFL control and giving the AFL a mid week comp to sell along with TV rights to increase the TV spend back into the game? Happens with College Sports in America ( and yes I know we aren't America).
Has to be an angle there somewhere as makes no sense to weaken country/metro footy removing the best players from a younger age unless the AFL would profit financially.

Exactly and the AFL don't have too pay for too much, the schools give out scholarships, they have better facilities, AFL roll out another comp for everyone to watch

 

[Forest St End]

I might be a bit sceptical but have been thinking about school football falling under AFL control and giving the AFL a mid week comp to sell along with TV rights to increase the TV spend back into the game? Happens with College Sports in America ( and yes I know we aren't America).
Has to be an angle there somewhere as makes no sense to weaken country/metro footy removing the best players from a younger age unless the AFL would profit financially.

High school and college football is essentially the local footy tier in America though isn't it?

No-one gives a stuff about school footy here apart from the kids playing it.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

High school and college football is essentially the local footy tier in America though isn't it?

No-one gives a stuff about school footy here apart from the kids playing it.

I think there's more care now, and there's always being pride in the Herald Sun shield.

Pretty sure you have the high school system, then the best get a chance at college, then fewer go NFL, NBA etc. There's the development league below and that's it. There's no open age local system like AFL, and it's what the AFL don't understand and want to go away

 

[AlburyE]

His health is a thousand times more important than football, but does anyone (perhaps someone connected with Sandhurst) know whether Sean O'Farrell can play again sometime in the future after his health scare?

 

[Forest St End]

Hearing that it is over for Castlemaine, will not field a senior side this season.

 

[Bendigosbest20]

Hearing that it is over for Castlemaine, will not field a senior side this season.

Jesus that’s sad. AFL Vic may actually have to start doing something- Rutherglen Corowa / Castlemaine - not small clubs !


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[MortlockWatcher]

All AFLV can really do is get clubs from regions or districts together and facilitate meetings to work out a way forward. The clubs are the ones that need to be the drivers of this. AFLV can't stand there and order a shotgun wedding between clubs as the clubs need to buy into it and make the first move.

The clubs need to work out what is best for their local community. Minyip and Murtoa were bitter rivals in the Wimmera league for many years but they reached a point where they realised they needed each other in order to secure the future of football in their district and have been successful as Minyip-Murtoa. Hopetoun and Beulah put their on-field rivalry to one side and have become the Southern Mallee Giants. Both have been successful since joining forces.

Some clubs are too proud to admit they are struggling and are seemingly hoping that their neighbours bite the dust first so they can benefit from their demise. One only needs to see what is going on in the Upper Murray league where football has been struggling for a while and the league is now a year-to-year proposition, currently teetering as a four-club competition. Moves to combine as one district club (some have suggested the Upper Murray Eagles as a name) are being thwarted by some people who seem to hope that they are the last club standing instead of making a bold and progressive move for football in the region.

 

[tasmanlvr]

Hearing that it is over for Castlemaine, will not field a senior side this season.

Geez. Shit news if true.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Hearing that it is over for Castlemaine, will not field a senior side this season.

Will they go into recess or at 18s and reserves like Kyneton did ?

 

[danz_danz]

Hearing that it is over for Castlemaine, will not field a senior side this season.

Bloody sad if so. Feel for those who have long fought to prop it up. Rock and a hard place for the Maine.

 

[BartSimpson]

Will they go into recess or at 18s and reserves like Kyneton did ?

If indeed this news is true I rally hope they keep reserves and 18’s afloat as well as netball which seems to be in good condition in my opinion it’s seemed to have worked at Kyneton with them keeping 2 football sides going sure they haven’t had finals success since returning but they’ve finished top 5 I feel it would much a much longer road back from no football teams than it would from still having 2 teams running around.
I might be living in fantasy land but someone like Darryl Wilson is who Castlemaine should move heaven and earth to try and get on board as coach to get them in the right track it might take a bit of coin to lure him but the return on investment in the longer term would make it worth it.

 

[ringo1]

If indeed this news is true I rally hope they keep reserves and 18’s afloat as well as netball which seems to be in good condition in my opinion it’s seemed to have worked at Kyneton with them keeping 2 football sides going sure they haven’t had finals success since returning but they’ve finished top 5 I feel it would much a much longer road back from no football teams than it would from still having 2 teams running around.
I might be living in fantasy land but someone like Darryl Wilson is who Castlemaine should move heaven and earth to try and get on board as coach to get them in the right track it might take a bit of coin to lure him but the return on investment in the longer term would make it worth it.

if it is true they need to land a high profile coach that begins plans for 2024 straight away. No use waiting until the end of 2023. There are many issues but a high profile coach who can unite the past player groups, community and remaining club people is a must. Maybe now, the club can unite the different factions that appear to be crippling any progress.

 

[Forest St End]

Will they go into recess or at 18s and reserves like Kyneton did ?

Just seniors from what I’m hearing, other football and netball will continue to play.

Should stress this is all just rumour, but hearing it a lot.

 

[ringo1]

Just seniors from what I’m hearing, other football and netball will continue to play.

Should stress this is all just rumour, but hearing it a lot.

I have just spoken to someone in the know. The club had over 30 players on the track last Monday night and will be fielding a team. The club is still sourcing recruits and just really need some experienced players to help develop some young players. It would be awesome if they could get some players to jump on board and continue their progress. It's not all doom and gloom at Camp Reserve! It might actually be a great time for undecided players to join the ranks.