Best 22 for the start of 2017?

[caesar88]

On an unrelated topic to the above lunatic's post ^

I'd like to petition for Sir Dane of House Rampe to not play round one.
Because the great man is on track to play his 100th game against the Bulldogs at Etihad Stadium, where they'll unfurl their flag.

Sir Dane deserves better than this.

 

[6yearsold]

Surely that's not in reference to Parker

or josh dunkley!

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Are we forgetting cunningham and Marsh were the emergencies?

 

[6yearsold]

Growing rather tired of the Parker sucks in finals narrative.

Have we forgotten all the other finals games he's either contributed or out-right dominated in?
2013 QF vs Hawks: 26 possessions
2013 SF vs Blues: 3.2, 22 possessions, fantasy score of 96
2013 PF vs Freo: 1.2, 25 possessions, 6 tackles, fantasy score of 106
2016 QF vs GWS: 22 possessions, 6 tackles, 6 hit-outs, fantasy score of 96
2016 SF vs Crows: 1.0, 24 possessions, 12 tackles, 5 hit-outs, fantasy score of 108
2016 PF vs Cats: 2.0, 17 possessions, 6 tackles, fantasy score of 75
2016 GF vs Bulldogs: 1.0, 19 possessions, 9 tackles, fantasy score of 88

Not to mention in 2014 when we reached a grand final on the back of two BOG finals games by Parker who was just 22 at the time.
2014 QF vs Freo: 1.1, 32 possessions, 6 tackles, fantasy score of 119, all the while playing one-on-one against bloody Nat Fyfe most of the game!!
2014 PF vs North: 3.1, 26 possessions, 8 tackles, 8 marks (including that hanger), fantasy score of 133

I don't care what anyone says that is a damn impressive resume for a bloke who played all of those finals before he turned 24. When JPK was 24, he had only just won his first B&F for the Swans and was having his break-out season. The fact that over the past few years we have even been relying on a guy still in his very early 20's to produce his usual performances speaks volumes about the standards he's set for himself so early in his career. He came runner-up in the Brownlow in 2016, is bloody unlucky not to be a dual-All Australian, won the Bob Skilton medal in the year we reached a grand final and finished minor premiers, has had so many BOG performances for us it's ridiculous (which is saying something considering he's part of the most decorated midfield group of the decade).

Yeah he hasn't quite produced his best on the two single occasions when it's mattered the most, but take him out of the side and we'd be up shit creek trying to find a replacement, and he's one of the main contributors to our consistent success since 2012. He's not like Mitchell. He's not a one-paced ball-magnet who can get your 30 touches every week. He's as dynamic as Fyfe, or Dangerfield. He's an absolute bull at the contest, even if his size doesn't allow him the freedom Danger or Fyfe or JPK enjoy. His tackles are brutal, with the kind of mongrel this side was once renowned for in the Roos era. He's got an awesome set of hands on him considering his size, and he at least makes a marking contest even if it's completely unrealistic. The guy's a gun in front of goal, whether it making space as a marking lead-up or just crumbing and snapping freakish goals. His third-man-up work over the past few years has been super under-appreciated, even if it's irrelevant going into this year.

And the one thing most fail to mention is how many times we've seen Parker being walked off the field, limping off the field, carried off the field or stretchered off the field because he's had his head caved in trying to win the ball, or be smacked around from pillar to post with no regard for his safety. The bloke bleeds this club, turned away plenty of opportunities to return to Victoria or seek more $$$. Can't help but rant cause IMO Parker's immune from criticism in my books. What he's done in his career so far has been amazing, and he'll only get better. He'll finish his career as one of the all-time great Swans so I'd rather just appreciate him while he's still young and in his prime rather than dwell on two games that he's not solely responsible for.

the fact remains he went missing in the 2014 gf and was more than underwhelming in the 2016 gf. compare him to fyfe and dangerfield all you like (hilarious) but thats the way it stands with him at present. injuries during the game are one thing but if you are going to play with a preexisting injury its up to you not to come up with an average performance, otherwise it is selfish imo.

 

[caesar88]

the fact remains he went missing in the 2014 gf and was more than underwhelming in the 2016 gf. compare him to fyfe and dangerfield all you like (hilarious) but thats the way it stands with him at present. injuries during the game are one thing but if you are going to play with a preexisting injury its up to you not to come up with an average performance, otherwise it is selfish imo.

Then why aren't we dragging Buddy for the same reason? Went into the GF with a bung shoulder but there's no proof that impacted his performance. Just like there's no proof Parker's injuries impacted his performance. Some seem to cherry pick who cops the flack and who doesn't. Tbh i'm frustrated at both Parker and Buddy's performances in the GF but they are both great players who will be all time great Swans and their careers and talents are way bigger than any individual game.

And IMO there's nothing hilarious about comparing Parker to Dangerfield and Fyfe. There's aspects to Parker's game that the other two are lacking, and vice versa. The only reason Parker hasn't won a Brownlow like they have is because he has two other elite mids and the best forward in the game in his team.

 

[6yearsold]

Then why aren't we dragging Buddy for the same reason? Went into the GF with a bung shoulder but there's no proof that impacted his performance. Just like there's no proof Parker's injuries impacted his performance. Some seem to cherry pick who cops the flack and who doesn't. Tbh i'm frustrated at both Parker and Buddy's performances in the GF but they are both great players who will be all time great Swans and their careers and talents are way bigger than any individual game.

And IMO there's nothing hilarious about comparing Parker to Dangerfield and Fyfe. There's aspects to Parker's game that the other two are lacking, and vice versa. The only reason Parker hasn't won a Brownlow like they have is because he has two other elite mids and the best forward in the game in his team.

it was the ankle injury during the game that hobbled buddy.

 

[Punts]

Then why aren't we dragging Buddy for the same reason? Went into the GF with a bung shoulder but there's no proof that impacted his performance. Just like there's no proof Parker's injuries impacted his performance. Some seem to cherry pick who cops the flack and who doesn't. Tbh i'm frustrated at both Parker and Buddy's performances in the GF but they are both great players who will be all time great Swans and their careers and talents are way bigger than any individual game.

And IMO there's nothing hilarious about comparing Parker to Dangerfield and Fyfe. There's aspects to Parker's game that the other two are lacking, and vice versa. The only reason Parker hasn't won a Brownlow like they have is because he has two other elite mids and the best forward in the game in his team.

Parker refused to have a scan after the cats game
I know for a fact

He couldn't run at times

 

[melbournehammer]

Parker has a problem in his game which he cant actually overcome and this is his lack of speed. It means that when teams win possession and spread quickly he just cant go with opponents. In both of the gfs we were chasing tail for large parts of the game and thats just not his go. but the issue against the dogs last year really was this - for all of parker, kennedy and mitchell skill inside the dogs won the clearances more often (and that was without wallis who arguably is their best clearance player).

I thought parker played all right in the grand final. Like the rest of the swans we played all right and about where we might have expected.

The dogs just played better for longer and absent hanners we just didnt have the capacity to run with them on the outside.

I wish we would move on.

 

[J_Moore]

the fact remains he went missing in the 2014 gf and was more than underwhelming in the 2016 gf. compare him to fyfe and dangerfield all you like (hilarious) but thats the way it stands with him at present. injuries during the game are one thing but if you are going to play with a preexisting injury its up to you not to come up with an average performance, otherwise it is selfish imo.

That is just, empirically, not true.

 

[6yearsold]

That is just, empirically, not true.

parker averaged 26.9 possessions and 3.5 marks in the grand final 19 and 1. he had a few more tackles than his average because he was playing inside and couldn't spread (because he had a pre-existing injury but also because he is just slow). i guess your definition of empirical is different to the dictionary or maybe you just don't realise that our observations (including mine) are distorted by our pre-existing perceptions.

 

[J_Moore]

parker averaged 26.9 possessions and 3.5 marks in the grand final 19 and 1. he had a few more tackles than his average because he was playing inside and couldn't spread (because he had a pre-existing injury but also because he is just slow). i guess your definition of empirical is different to the dictionary or maybe you just don't realise that our observations (including mine) are distorted by our pre-existing perceptions.

I'm not a massive Parker fan, I don't have a subconscious need for him to be good. That mental space is reserved for Kurt Tippet

He was a bit below average by his standards, but a reasonable contributor in the context of the overall game. I just reckon a guy with a PCL injury that still managed to be one of our more effective players overall isn't close to the front of the line for people that should be potted for playing shit a grand final.

 

[6yearsold]

i don't think he was the worst, i'm just saying it cost us. mcglynn, tippett, laidler, mcveigh, mills, rohan and richards were all probably worse. mcglynn, tippett and rohan were even worse again imo, because they are repeat offenders.

 

[BloodySwan]

Why are we arguing on whether Parker is amazing, average or poor on big games in the best 22 thread? Is anyone suggesting we drop him? He's easily in the team, I'm more interested on whether Cameron or Florent will be in

 

[swansfan51]

Great to see lots of good discussion here!

Of course the best way to get a great audience for your points of view is to sign up to do a match preview this year, there are still 6 great games available! https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/match-previews-2017.1156352/

 

[6yearsold]

Why are we arguing on whether Parker is amazing, average or poor on big games in the best 22 thread? Is anyone suggesting we drop him? He's easily in the team, I'm more interested on whether Cameron or Florent will be in

i don't think you can have naismith, tippett and cameron in the one team unless either one of them or buddy or reid are out injured. at this stage i wouldn't have florent in either. he needs to earn his spot.

 

[J_Moore]

Yeah, I think Cameron's inclusion for the year will be dependent on injuries to Naismith, Tippett, Reid & Franklin. Any of those guys are injured, and I reckon you shuffle the deck a bit (so, say Reid or Franklin is injured - I reckon Tippett goes permanent forward).

So I expect he'll play a fair bit.

 

[caesar88]

parker averaged 26.9 possessions and 3.5 marks in the grand final 19 and 1. he had a few more tackles than his average because he was playing inside and couldn't spread (because he had a pre-existing injury but also because he is just slow). i guess your definition of empirical is different to the dictionary or maybe you just don't realise that our observations (including mine) are distorted by our pre-existing perceptions.

My final comment on the matter but compare where JPK was at the same point in his career that Parker is at. He'd really only had his breakout season and first full season of consistent, quality football. Parker's excelled so much in such a short span of time and at such a young age we should not be relying on a 21 year old (2014) or a 23 year old (2016) to be an anchor behind our victories. It just shows how brilliant he's been so far in his career. We have one of the best players in the comp playing for us yet he's still associated most with either his GF performance or his slowness.

 

[elastic]

On an unrelated topic to the above lunatic's post ^

I'd like to petition for Sir Dane of House Rampe to not play round one.
Because the great man is on track to play his 100th game against the Bulldogs at Etihad Stadium, where they'll unfurl their flag.

Sir Dane deserves better than this.

It's somewhat fitting given that the bulldogs let him go and he has turned into one of the best defenders in the game. Plus I'll have a chance to watch him in his 100th. Gun player.

 

[swansfan51]

It's somewhat fitting given that the bulldogs let him go and he has turned into one of the best defenders in the game. Plus I'll have a chance to watch him in his 100th. Gun player.

They didn't let him go, he was never on their list.

Unless you define that as not drafting anyone from your reserves side, like we did with Breust?

 

[connolly]

They didn't let him go, he was never on their list.

Unless you define that as not drafting anyone from your reserves side, like we did with Breust?

It was a choice between Rampe and Patrick Rose his Williamstown teammate for the Footscray's 2009 No. 68 rookie selection. The Bulldogs went for Rose over Rampe. Anyone ever heard of Patrick Rose? About the same level of incompetence as the decision of Decca Records not to sign the Beatles in 1962 selecting instead Brian Poole and the Tremeloes. Anyone ever heard of Brian Poole and the Tremeloes?

 

[Big Blood]

i don't think he was the worst, i'm just saying it cost us. mcglynn, tippett, laidler, mcveigh, mills, rohan and richards were all probably worse. mcglynn, tippett and rohan were even worse again imo, because they are repeat offenders.

Yes, and Longmire made that point after the game, though sadly without naming names, but you have to have everyone contributing. Buddy was our only forward, to give one obvious example.

 

[The Swans Blog]

I don't see the line up changing much. Reid is an obvious in for Richards, and I would expect Robinson to come in as well. But with Heeney missing, as well as McPointy and Papley, Florent could start the season, along with Marsh and potentially Foote. Cunningham as well should come straight in.

 

[caesar88]

I don't see the line up changing much. Reid is an obvious in for Richards, and I would expect Robinson to come in as well. But with Heeney missing, as well as McPointy and Papley, Florent could start the season, along with Marsh and potentially Foote. Cunningham as well should come straight in.

Cunningham and Foote should not play round 1. Cunningham really didn't do much this pre-season to earn a recall and Foote did even less for his chances. Cunningham might get in on account of the exodus of small forwards we're dealing with so far but otherwise nope

 

[scaryness]

B: Melican - Grundy - Smith
HB: Mills - Rampe - Lloyd
C: Jones - Kennedy - Hannebery
HF: Towers - Reid - K Jack
F: Tippett - Franklin - Florent
R: Naismith - Parker - Hewett

INT: Robinson - Laidler - Cunningham - who cares

 

[caesar88]

What I want:
FB: Smith, Grundy, Melican
HB: Mills, Aliir, Sir Dane
C: Jones, Parker, Lloyd
R: Naismith, Kennebery
HF: K. Jack, Buddy, Reid
FF: Florent, Tippett, Hewett
I/C: Robinson, Marsh, Cameron, god knows

What I think will be the case:
FB: Smith, Grundy, Melican
HB: Mills, Aliir, Sir Dane
C: Jones, Parker, Lloyd
R: Naismith, Kennebery
HF: K. Jack, Buddy, Reid
FF: Florent, Tippett, Cunningham
I/C: Hewett, Robinson, Marsh, Towers