Best midfield ever?

[PhatBoy]

Detective Falcon/tallandbald/carboot/cleany on the case.

“Just one more thing…”

 

[Macca19]

No I haven’t. I’ve shown you Aker’s stats for the peak years, and I’ve shown you Johnson and Chapman’s stats for peak years.

Chapman averaged 20+ disposals every season 07-11. Akermanis only did it twice 00-04.

Johnson did it 2 times 07-11 and his ‘down’ years were still more prolific. Oh, and he always managed to kick more goals too….

So again I’m struggling to see a) that you actually do factor in statistics and b) how these guys have less of a claim at being considered midfielders as what Jason Akermanis did.

You cant really base much off raw disposal numbers. The game changed dramatically from 01-04 to 07-11 in terms of disposal rates.

But, Johnson and Chapman should be included as they were part of the mid rotation, particularly the back end of their dominant era

 

[PhatBoy]

You cant really base much off raw disposal numbers. The game changed dramatically from 01-04 to 07-11 in terms of disposal rates.

But, Johnson and Chapman should be included as they were part of the mid rotation, particularly the back end of their dominant era

At any rate those players had careers which crossed over significantly time wise and there is no doubt that all three played very similar roles for their respective clubs and even at the time of Akermanis’ prime commentators and panelists were often quick to note that his ‘position’ was different to the other three

 

[Cleansweep17]

But we can remember him playing live? How hard is it to remember something from when you were 13?

The stats say nothing of the sort. Which ones are we talking about, the ones that don’t exist?

Bro keeps increasing his age to sound more legit and thinks you can accurately remember something almost 30 years ago when he was in primary school. On top of that you only saw him play when he was old fart. The whole situation is just sad, makes sense why you guys are so bitter.

COPE.

 

[PhatBoy]

Bro keeps increasing his age to sound more legit and thinks you can accurately remember something almost 30 years ago when he was in primary school. On top of that you only saw him play when he was old fart. The whole situation is just sad, makes sense why you guys are so bitter.

COPE.

Bitter about what? Again, what makes it hard to remember something you saw at 13?
Do you not remember you times tables? I can still remember the track listing from the first CD I ever had. I was given it when I was 10. The first song on it was The Floor by Johnny Gill, followed by the immortal Sweat by Inner Circle and the classics kept rolling from there before concluding with the heart wrenching Wendy Matthews ballad The Day You Went Away. I’m not really sure why you struggle so hard to recall stuff from that age but I don’t and I’m guessing most people don’t either.

 

[Mr Meow]

I’m not the Geelong supporter that didn’t even see GAS play then talk him up as the GOAT. That’s as sad as it gets.

You still haven’t given me your age? I wonder why.

What on Earth are you on about?

a) seen him play
b) never argued him as the GOAT

I, unlike you, comment on players I've seen.. Fascinating, mind blowing concept, I know.

But just so that everybody is once again aware, you have not seen a kick from any of the midfields discussed in here that you then pretend to know about.

 

[Mr Meow]

Detective Falcon/tallandbald/carboot/cleany on the case.

“Just one more thing…”

We've truly sent him up the deep end on this one.

The thing is, any youngster who is a footy tragic can actually hunt the archives and watch all these players. He's too lazy to even do that.

Instead it's simply a starting position of obsessed anti-Geelong troll and then he starts making up stuff from there.

He wasn't even aware that Chappy and Johnson rolled through midfield like Aker did for Brisbane. Or that Enright was a wingman the first half of his career and a hybrid a couple of years after that.

This is all really, really easy stuff to find out by popping on exactly one Geelong replay from 2004-2013.

 

[Cdog71]

At any rate those players had careers which crossed over significantly time wise and there is no doubt that all three played very similar roles for their respective clubs and even at the time of Akermanis’ prime commentators and panelists were often quick to note that his ‘position’ was different to the other three

Always thought Richmond played Martin the way they did based on Chapmans game.

 

[PhatBoy]

Always thought Richmond played Martin the way they did based on Chapmans game.

There’s certainly a lot of similarities there. Chapman had lots of elements of ‘break glass’ when we really needed something to happen in a particular part of the field in a big game in much the same way Richmond and Martin did

It’s slightly ironic that within our actual club Johnson and Chapman played such similar roles because it’s no secret that they didn’t like each other or at the very least, Chapman didn’t particularly like Johnson anyway

 

[Cdog71]

That was a great midfield and the amount of different types that could be fwd transition players.
Having high fwds that intimidated because of scoring ability and the physical stuff.
I remember Bomber Thompson saying that through that period and before it Kelly was his favourite player.
Pretty stacked team

 

[Ancient Tiger]

IMHO, it would be hard to beat Voss, Aker and Black. Toughness, ridiculous kicking skills with speed and a bloke that could set up play beautifully. At their peak, they ruled supreme.

 

[PhatBoy]

IMHO, it would be hard to beat Voss, Aker and Black. Toughness, ridiculous kicking skills with speed and a bloke that could set up play beautifully. At their peak, they ruled supreme.

The toughness of that whole Brisbane midfield in general is what makes them possibly #1.

Medals etc are fairly irrelevant imo. They have the weakest ruckman in Keating and I don’t think they have quite the depth in class that the Cats have but they do have a good tagging option like us, in Copeland, and their general toughness with the guys that rotated through there with Brad Scott, Hart, Pike, Ashcroft, Luke Power was young but he was an excellent player. That level of hardness makes them an extraordinary group

 

[Cleansweep17]

The toughness of that whole Brisbane midfield in general is what makes them possibly #1.

Medals etc are fairly irrelevant imo. They have the weakest ruckman in Keating and I don’t think they have quite the depth in class that the Cats have but they do have a good tagging option like us, in Copeland, and their general toughness with the guys that rotated through there with Brad Scott, Hart, Pike, Ashcroft, Luke Power was young but he was an excellent player. That level of hardness makes them an extraordinary group

Can I ask why you think medals are irrelevant?

Brownlow means was they were the best player (or one of) in a season. Lions had 3 of those in the teams. You only had 2. That is a significant different you can’t just brush off.

 

[caveman72]

If it’s easier for you to dismiss my comments by using my age as a disqualifier go for it. It just looks weak.

Would you rather he comments on your intelligence?

 

[PhatBoy]

Can I ask why you think medals are irrelevant?

Brownlow means was they were the best player (or one of) in a season. Lions had 3 of those in the teams. You only had 2. That is a significant different you can’t just brush off.

Yeah well I just did. Sorry, but this isn’t the Supreme Court.


Same reason I’ve told you the other 400000 times and you still can’t wrap your head around it. A player can win a medal for being mediocre in year X relative to a player in year Y who was twice as good but didn’t win the medal because someone else happened to be 0.1 per cent better. Player Y has had easily a better season but has no medal to show for it. So when the teo
Players go hypothetically head to head, the medal doesn’t do their kicking and hand passing for them does it. Their kicking and hand passing does their kicking and hand passing. The medals mean jack shit.

Medals also depend on the system in which they are awarded and are often given in imperfect systems whereby a player can have 6 goals and 30 touches in a game and get 2 votes in a losing game because an opponent in the winning team had 35 and 3, meanwhile someone else in a winning team in another game has 22 and 2 and gets 3 votes.

It’s a shit system.

 

[PhatBoy]

I can and you should agree with me especially since GAJ is considered by most as one of the best of all time because of those exact awards he is saying doesn’t matter.

PB doesn’t like it here because it shows that Lions mids are better than the Geelong ones.

Who wouldn’t pick a midfield with more Brownlow medalists in it like seriously?

I’m literally saying in this thread that I think the lions midfield is the best

What is it I don’t like, exactly

 

[Macca19]

Its really close imo.

West Coast probably had the most complete midfield and they batted really deep. Their second string midfield was pretty good. But their peak was also fairly short lived compared to Geelong and Brisbanes.

Geelongs was just a total powerhouse. Many outstanding footballers.

Brisbane's was the first truly great midfield of the AFL era and they just had a grunt and toughness that was unmatched.

For me though, its hard to overlook Geelongs. Only just though.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

But really we all should stop polluting this thread with this sh1t.

Take it to the Richmond hate Geelong thread.

 

[Cleansweep17]

It is explaining to you how someone can miss out on an honour or a medal, and be better or equal to someone else who won it. Using medals as a means to assess players rather than actually assessing the players themselves is perhaps the dumbest way in history to rate anything. As I’ve said to you before, it’s like saying that a film which won Best Film at the Oscars HAS to be better than another movie from a different year that didnt win.

That you even need to ask that question shows that you’re too thick to understand it.

And yes I’ll say it straight out. Peak Steve Steve Johnson is as good as peak Jason Akermanis having seen both of them. Both exceptional players and both walk into any greatest hits team you want to name from recent times. But I sure don’t think Akermanis was better simply because he once won a Brownlow.

Guess what- Johnson once polled 25 Brownlow votes. Aker never did.

What year was peak Aker and peak Johnson respectively?

The 25 votes was in 2013 so I want to see how it relates in this case.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Its really close imo.

West Coast probably had the most complete midfield and they batted really deep. Their second string midfield was pretty good. But their peak was also fairly short lived compared to Geelong and Brisbanes.

Geelongs was just a total powerhouse. Many outstanding footballers.

Brisbane's was the first truly great midfield of the AFL era and they just had a grunt and toughness that was unmatched.

For me though, its hard to overlook Geelongs. Only just though.

Crows were ahead of the Lions. Their midfield as outlined earlier was exceptional. Ahead as in before the Lions.

On the Lions, quite a few posters are not mentioning Lappin. He was an out and out gun. When talking best midfields ever, he absolutely needs to be included as part of the mix. I know he was a wingman but he was certainly a part of the mid mix for years.

And ffs Clean sweep and some of you Catters, just put yourselves on ignore. It’s painful for the rest of us when it becomes a sh1t fight between you blokes.

 

[PhatBoy]

What year was peak Aker and peak Johnson respectively?

The 25 votes was in 2013 so I want to see how it relates in this case.

Take your pick. From 2007-2011 Johnson averaged basically 20 touches and 2.3 goals a game.
Akermanis averaged about 20 touches and 1.4 goals a game from 2000-2004.

He won a medal though so was clearly much better.

And Michael Voss’ Brownlow came 5 seasons before the Lions even made a grand final. So he was clearly well past his peak I’m guessing and his medal was irrelevant by that stage?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Take your pick. From 2007-2011 Johnson averaged basically 20 touches and 2.3 goals a game.
Akermanis averaged about 20 touches and 1.4 goals a game from 2000-2004.

He won a medal though so was clearly much better.

Ah I see, instead of using awards judged by experts based on a players INFLUENCE in a season you use the simple method of disposals and goals during different eras. Explains a lot.

Aker has a much better resume than Johnson and is rightly considered better. The End.

 

[PhatBoy]

Ah I see, instead of using awards judged by experts based on a players INFLUENCE in a season you use the simple method of disposals and goals during different eras. Explains a lot.

Aker has a much better resume than Johnson and is rightly considered better. The End.

Eras? Johnson and his midfield teammates literally played a preliminary final against Aker and his in 2004 and lost to them by 9 points
How different do you think their eras were?

Yeah so Voss’ Brownlow that came in 1996, what was its influence on the 01-04 seasons.

fmd Jock McHale could not coach someone to be this stupid.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Yeah so Voss’ Brownlow that came in 1996, what was its influence on the 01-04 seasons.

fmd Jock McHale could not coach someone to be this stupid.

He got an MVP in 02 and 03 dingus pfff

 

[PhatBoy]

He got an MVP in 02 and 03 pfff

Oh so now MVP awards are important?
That’s an interesting turn of events

I thought Simon Black had to be the best in the league in 02 for starters because he won the Brownlow.
And Aker won it in 2001.

They can’t both be the best. At any rate MVP awards are meaningless based on everything you’ve told us

Really maybe it was just Voss that was the best and the other two should have won nothing.

Then we’d just have a Brisbane team with 1 really decorated player and a couple of other guys with some AA guernseys