Blake vs Mumford

[YOTC]

As I said... Blake clearly won the ruck duel. If that's all your basing each players performance on then yes... Blake pantsed him.

Glad we agree.

 

[JUBJUB]

Blake >>>>>>>>>>> Mumford

Nice goal Mumford gave to Varcoe [his 2nd].Drops a sitter under no pressure.Glad we got rid of him

 

[Rilian]

A lot of you are missing the point, Blake came up against a ruck combination with less than 20-30 games between them, yet was still beaten around the ground, and that's been is only ok game in a long time, and he can't be relied on 90% of the time to do the same. Any decent ruckman should dominate all over in games like that, even Ottens on one leg would do more!

How many times could you ever say he was in our best 10 players throughout his career? I can't even think of a handful! It's like having a younger Troy Simmonds in your team... but at least Troy Simmonds was an alright ruckman/player at Blake's age!

 

[CF]

A lot of you are missing the point, .....

you miss the point. Geelong killed Sydney in the Clearances and that is where Blakes value as a ruckman comes through. Geelong are also ranked No. 1 in getting goals from stoppages...again you need a good ruckman to be able to do that consistantly. I have never said Blake is the greatest player ever but he does a job and that is all that matters.

 

[YOTC]

Oh i'm sorry I see you are perfectly right. Mumford is by far better.

Blake should forget about ruckwork and just concentrate on field work. If he can't win you over with his performance today then it's clear you only want a ruckman who can't jump, can't posistion his body, can't tap to advantage of his team mates, gets in the way of his rovers but takes a few extra marks and makes a couple of extra tackles.

Hell why don't we do a Hawthorn and have no ruckmen? How's that working out for them?

 

[Rilian]

you miss the point. Geelong killed Sydney in the Clearances and that is where Blakes value as a ruckman comes through. Geelong are also ranked No. 1 in getting goals from stoppages...again you need a good ruckman to be able to do that consistantly. I have never said Blake is the greatest player ever but he does a job and that is all that matters.

That would be the midfield's work more than Blake's. You could have a sack of potatoes in the ruck and we'd still be able to do that as we have had the best midfield in the comp for a good while now. In fact we do have a sack of potatoes in the ruck come to think of it...

Btw, I'm not saying Mumford is better atm, but he has more potential than Blake, just like almost every other ruckman out there. The fact there's no clear winner in most people's eyes at this stage of their careers says it all. Likewise the fact you're only basing this on one game, as there's no others to compare from this year, as I'm talking in general! Every team has a few rabbits, Blake is ours, but we're good enough to carry him, but he will never be influential enough for us to win a game soley because of him. You can tell by his post-GF interview that he's a dh of a bloke as well, but there's plenty of them out there also!

 

[Brasil2007]

you miss the point. Geelong killed Sydney in the Clearances and that is where Blakes value as a ruckman comes through. Geelong are also ranked No. 1 in getting goals from stoppages...again you need a good ruckman to be able to do that consistantly. I have never said Blake is the greatest player ever but he does a job and that is all that matters.

This.

I see what people see in Mumford but the argument used is like saying Staker is a better around the ground than Scarlett because he kicks more goals. It may be true but it's ultimately irrelevant to the question at hand as to who the better player is for the team you put on the field.

From Sydney's position this whole thing is a huge gamble. If Mumford doesn't improve rapidly, and Seaby remains injured their year is shot because they depend so much on stoppages.

 

[vinum coupe]

Btw, I'm not saying Mumford is better atm, but he has more potential than Blake, !

Ding!!!!

Mate, in 3 years you may very well be right.


But we are a premiership force now, and only a fool would expect (not hope) that we will be one in 3 years.

We need our best team NOW.

 

[winty]

you miss the point. Geelong killed Sydney in the Clearances and that is where Blakes value as a ruckman comes through. Geelong are also ranked No. 1 in getting goals from stoppages...again you need a good ruckman to be able to do that consistantly. I have never said Blake is the greatest player ever but he does a job and that is all that matters.

You're fighting a losing battle there mate. Blake could have 50 hitouts, all of which hit a Geelong midfielder on the chest, yet not get a touch around the ground, while his opponent can't get near it in the ruck, but gets 15-20 touches around the ground, and some people will still be unhappy.

No matter how well Blake plays, the Blake bashers will always find something to whinge about.

We just thrashed the ladder leaders by 67 points, and yet some people still aren't happy.

 

[Patronus]

I really don't know when and why tackles became a convincing argument on who is a better ruckman.

I would have thought the reason Mumford gets so many tackles was because he rucks the ball to his feet (and to the opposition players hands) leaving him in a good position to lay the tackle.

 

[Vdubs]

That would be the midfield's work more than Blake's. You could have a sack of potatoes in the ruck and we'd still be able to do that as we have had the best midfield in the comp for a good while now. In fact we do have a sack of potatoes in the ruck come to think of it...

Btw, I'm not saying Mumford is better atm, but he has more potential than Blake, just like almost every other ruckman out there. The fact there's no clear winner in most people's eyes at this stage of their careers says it all. Likewise the fact you're only basing this on one game, as there's no others to compare from this year, as I'm talking in general! Every team has a few rabbits, Blake is ours, but we're good enough to carry him, but he will never be influential enough for us to win a game soley because of him. You can tell by his post-GF interview that he's a dh of a bloke as well, but there's plenty of them out there also!

Potential? Age difference less than 12 months. Did you see the hitouts to advantage for Ablett etc? Directly causing goals. I went to the game, saw the replay and Blake had an influential game with 33 hitouts, goal of the day, and spent 50% of the game on the bench. As Catman Forever says, he does his job and is a significant part of our team. Mumford is no tool, but he was beaten today. End of argument today.

 

[cynical]

blake was good today, the problem is when he comes up against an A grade ruckman and gets beat in the tap outs he looks ordinary because he cant do anything else

 

[thejester]

This won't put an end to the debate a) because the two sides have completely different standards as to what ruckmen should do, as this thread demonstrates and b) hate of Blake has become so totally ingrained that nothing will satisfy his critics. The fact you still had people lamenting losing King after last year's GF and the start of this season demonstrates that totally.

A lot of you are missing the point, Blake came up against a ruck combination with less than 20-30 games between them, yet was still beaten around the ground, and that's been is only ok game in a long time, and he can't be relied on 90% of the time to do the same. Any decent ruckman should dominate all over in games like that, even Ottens on one leg would do more!

How many times could you ever say he was in our best 10 players throughout his career? I can't even think of a handful! It's like having a younger Troy Simmonds in your team... but at least Troy Simmonds was an alright ruckman/player at Blake's age!

You may refer to me as Nostradamus from now on...

 

[The Cats Teeth]

As an old school ruckman from the '70's ie like Tom Hawkins in the centre square, you have to give it to Mark Blake - his tap work today was first class. He actually appeals to me as the only other ruckman who can go body-body with Sandilands. Around the ground...Oh Well. Nevertless too many afficionados underestimate he effect good tap work has on midfield confidence. I wonder what Gazza, Selwood etc think?

 

[OscarCat]

That would be the midfield's work more than Blake's. You could have a sack of potatoes in the ruck and we'd still be able to do that as we have had the best midfield in the comp for a good while now. In fact we do have a sack of potatoes in the ruck come to think of it...

Bullshit. Our midfield has been beaten many times, regardless of the ruck. The point is that Blake in the ruck gives us more opportunity to win clearences than anyone other than Otto.

Not many ruckmen offer more than that.

 

[Vdubs]

Jester, I seriously doubt any Cat supporter is lamenting losing King. Blake is currently a more effective player.

 

[The Cats Teeth]

In complete agreement with Deadly Outbreak ( soumds like a serous disease ), most of Mumford's tackles ae fairly basic - just create another stoppage. And that's fine if you can more times than not win the clearances or the hit-outs to advantage..but against stronger midfields/ruck set-ups that's going nowhere

 

[True Blue Cat]

I almost had a heart attack when Blake kicked that goal. Almost every Geelong player on the field went up to congratulate him and rightfully so. Was a very nice kick which isn't something we usually expect from him and it will give him bounds of confidence.

 

[Catman]

You can tell by his post-GF interview that he's a dh of a bloke as well, but there's plenty of them out there also!

If we're in to making judgements on such things I reckon I could make a similar comment about you from this quote alone.

But I've never met you, as you probably haven't met Blake, so how could you make such a statement?

 

[randyzany]

How's this working out for you?

This.

If you judge football ability and performance over one game, you are deluded.

Wow the bar has been set so low for Blake that a once in a blue moon decent performance has his devout fanboys creaming their pants.

And I never said or insinuated Mumford was going to comprehensively beat Blake on the day, obviously some need to brush up a bit on their reading comprehension skills.

Rather that I wished his fanboys would cease to pull excuses out of their arses and finally smell the coffee if he did lower his colours to a player with significantly less experience.

Considering the number of games Blake has played you’d think that by this his stage inhis career he’d have added more strings to his bow than just his tapping. It’s starting to become painfully clear that a second string ruckman it’s all he’s ever gonna be good for. Thus developing a 1st choice ruckman is of utmost importance to be ready when Ottens retires which sadly can’t be too far off.

As I said... Blake clearly won the ruck duel. If that's all your basing each players performance on then yes... Blake pantsed him.

If we're going to be reasonable and take both players influence on their team into account then it's hardly a 'pantsing'. Mumford was close to BOG for us today. That's probably a sad indictment on the rest of the team but his work around the ground was clearly superior to Blakes.

Just because your team doesn't need Blake to be a Cox style extra midfielder around the ground, it doesn't mean the opposing ruckmans work around the ground counts for naught when comparing their games.

Anyway... I can see it's going to be impossible to discuss this rationally with someone who has such an obviously biased agenda...(ie. proving the Blake detractors on your own board wrong). Well done on a convincing win and best of luck for the rest of your season.

Well said MalceskiFan. I'm starting to think Blake has cast some voodoo spell on these blokes. Blake can do no (or little) wrong in their eyes and with such blatant deficiencies in his game it leaves me a little perplexed to say the least. For mine Blake is very lucky bastard that at this point in time we have such a great midfield that can cover his glaring weaknesses as player.

Surely had he come along 3 or 4 year earlier he would've been shown the door ages ago.

In any event he has cemented his spot on the team now, nothing written by any of his doubters and constructive critics like myself on this board can change that. I just hope that in big pressure cooker games his tendency to fumble and general dopeyness doesn't result in a turnover that could ultimately cost us the match.

 

[YOTC]

Mumford 7 clangers
Blake 1.

 

[CF]

Mumford 7 clangers
Blake 1.

all resulting from his 8 tackles. One of those tackles got him suspended as well.

 

[Schmegg]

Yeah this one is dead in the water men, we just have to play with the cards that have been dealt, Blake won't ever do the things Mumford does around the ground (but he kicked a goal!) but he gets the ball to his teammates enough times to make a difference on the field.

I'm not agreat fan of him, but he knows his limitations and plays his role.

I only hope Rizzo is right about young Dawson Simpson and him being the future. We'll have 7 weeks to test out this theory regardless with Mr September out for 8 weeks with his hot spot.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Mumford was ok around the ground but Blake was too last week. And Blake comprehensively out rucked Mumford. For all this talk about how great young Mummy is he is still hopelessly bad at what his first duty is - rucking!

 

[Byron2008]

ummm.. I gotta agree with Randyzany here. Mumford was more effective around the ground, I place more importance on that then Blake's tap work, which really wasn't that impressive, our midfield just flat outplayed Sydneys and swooped on the taps time and time again..

It looks as though Mumford will be challenging the tribunal on that tackle, as well he should. He should not have been rubbed out for it, it was a hard tackle and that's it, Ablett's fine as well. I hope he wins..