Injury Blue Healers Medical Room - 2023

[Wickzki]

Let’s swap him out and find out, just couldn’t be worse and who knows it could possibly be better.

No point in keeping on flogging the Russell horse, it’s not working period.

I just don’t understand how it’s appropriate to sack coaches Willy Nilly as we do, yet keep resources for inordinate amount of time without any discernible evidence of getting better in areas of the club that are absolutely crucial to success




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You don't want to sack coaches wily nilly but you'd sack someone who is essentially a specialist coach?

There are a lot of people who would argue that Andy Russell has done a lot of good as others have outlined in this thread (e.g. Charlie Curnow, Sam Docherty, etc.).

Does Russell get no credit for helping Docherty back into shape to play a full season of football after his second bout of testibular cancer and getting him on a program that Sam was more than happy to follow to get back by round one? It was a miracle performed by Sam and the coaches of which Russell was a key part

There is zero published evidence to suggest that Russell is at fault for any of it. Lots to prove that he has helped players surpass expectations. Lots to say that other clubs (including at least one with former Carlton people involved during the Russell era chasing his contract, etc.

Russell has a lot of runs on the board. A very well established reputation. Is regularly headhunted yet people who have lauded people for dramatically improving our club (i.e. Cook) have worked to keep him at the club.

Quite honestly, some of the shit in this thread about Russell is bordering on labelling him a saboteur and quite defamatory.

Aside from random Collison injuries (that can't be helped) injuries are very complex things with a great amount contributing to the causation

I trust in the likes of Sayers and Cook to do the right thing for the Carlton Football Club. Their approach in other areas demonstrates their positive intentions for the club. They're the ones with access to the evidence. Until they decide that Russell has to go then I'm going to hretsin my faith in their decision. We're in a better place than we've been for 20 years. They're not going to **** it up if it was that simple.

 

[BigFrizz36]

You don't want to sack coaches wily nilly but you'd sack someone who is essentially a specialist coach?

There are a lot of people who would argue that Andy Russell has done a lot of good as others have outlined in this thread (e.g. Charlie Curnow, Sam Docherty, etc.).

Does Russell get no credit for helping Docherty back into shape to play a full season of football after his second bout of testibular cancer and getting him on a program that Sam was more than happy to follow to get back by round one? It was a miracle performed by Sam and the coaches of which Russell was a key part

There is zero published evidence to suggest that Russell is at fault for any of it. Lots to prove that he has helped players surpass expectations. Lots to say that other clubs (including at least one with former Carlton people involved during the Russell era chasing his contract, etc.

Russell has a lot of runs on the board. A very well established reputation. Is regularly headhunted yet people who have lauded people for dramatically improving our club (i.e. Cook) have worked to keep him at the club.

Quite honestly, some of the s**t in this thread about Russell is bordering on labelling him a saboteur and quite defamatory.

Aside from random Collison injuries (that can't be helped) injuries are very complex things with a great amount contributing to the causation

I trust in the likes of Sayers and Cook to do the right thing for the Carlton Football Club. Their approach in other areas demonstrates their positive intentions for the club. They're the ones with access to the evidence. Until they decide that Russell has to go then I'm going to hretsin my faith in their decision. We're in a better place than we've been for 20 years. They're not going to * it up if it was that simple.

Bravo. Well spoken.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

We are beating teams up and running just as well/better than them. Can't be enjoying and saying how good it's going then turn around and demand the guy who's probably fairly responsible for that ability to do both be fired. Doesn't make sense. Bigger teams don't normally run well. Great running teams don't normally contested ball so well.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

You don't want to sack coaches wily nilly but you'd sack someone who is essentially a specialist coach?

There are a lot of people who would argue that Andy Russell has done a lot of good as others have outlined in this thread (e.g. Charlie Curnow, Sam Docherty, etc.).

Does Russell get no credit for helping Docherty back into shape to play a full season of football after his second bout of testibular cancer and getting him on a program that Sam was more than happy to follow to get back by round one? It was a miracle performed by Sam and the coaches of which Russell was a key part

There is zero published evidence to suggest that Russell is at fault for any of it. Lots to prove that he has helped players surpass expectations. Lots to say that other clubs (including at least one with former Carlton people involved during the Russell era chasing his contract, etc.

Russell has a lot of runs on the board. A very well established reputation. Is regularly headhunted yet people who have lauded people for dramatically improving our club (i.e. Cook) have worked to keep him at the club.

Quite honestly, some of the s**t in this thread about Russell is bordering on labelling him a saboteur and quite defamatory.

Aside from random Collison injuries (that can't be helped) injuries are very complex things with a great amount contributing to the causation

I trust in the likes of Sayers and Cook to do the right thing for the Carlton Football Club. Their approach in other areas demonstrates their positive intentions for the club. They're the ones with access to the evidence. Until they decide that Russell has to go then I'm going to hretsin my faith in their decision. We're in a better place than we've been for 20 years. They're not going to * it up if it was that simple.

What bollocks.

It's a bloody forum.

Entirely reasonable that people question the (high performance) S & C team when, year in year out, our injury list is consistently one of the longest in the competition.

And, notably, at the pointy end of the season.

 

[HarryBeef]

Let’s swap him out and find out, just couldn’t be worse and who knows it could possibly be better.

No point in keeping on flogging the Russell horse, it’s not working period.

I just don’t understand how it’s appropriate to sack coaches Willy Nilly as we do, yet keep resources for inordinate amount of time without any discernible evidence of getting better in areas of the club that are absolutely crucial to success




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Pretty sure he does more than just manage injuries? We seem to run out games pretty well and dominate contested ball, it could definitely be worse.

 

[Jeremias]

What bollocks.

It's a bloody forum.

Entirely reasonable that people question the (high performance) S & C team when, year in year out, our injury list is consistently one of the longest in the competition.

And, notably, at the pointy end of the season.

That post was not in response to questioning the high performance team. It was in direct response to someone wanting to sack the high performance team.

There is a massive difference between the two.

 

[Crippa#9]

Owies clip just put up on CFC website... in the last 20secs, in the background you see SOS just beginning what looks a 400m...appears to be going at about 70%.

Hopefully he's only a week or two away.

 

[thylacine60]

Definitely, I'm putting my hand up as one of those. Unfortunately not playing is not an option as I found out either, did one just kicking grass this year, how pathetic!

 

[Kruezing]

Owies clip just put up on CFC website... in the last 20secs, in the background you see SOS just beginning what looks a 400m...appears to be going at about 70%.

Hopefully he's only a week or two away.

70% ? He’s ready to go then lol

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

That post was not in response to questioning the high performance team. It was in direct response to someone wanting to sack the high performance team.

There is a massive difference between the two.

Semantics.

 

[Garters]

You don't want to sack coaches wily nilly but you'd sack someone who is essentially a specialist coach?

There are a lot of people who would argue that Andy Russell has done a lot of good as others have outlined in this thread (e.g. Charlie Curnow, Sam Docherty, etc.).

Does Russell get no credit for helping Docherty back into shape to play a full season of football after his second bout of testibular cancer and getting him on a program that Sam was more than happy to follow to get back by round one? It was a miracle performed by Sam and the coaches of which Russell was a key part

There is zero published evidence to suggest that Russell is at fault for any of it. Lots to prove that he has helped players surpass expectations. Lots to say that other clubs (including at least one with former Carlton people involved during the Russell era chasing his contract, etc.

Russell has a lot of runs on the board. A very well established reputation. Is regularly headhunted yet people who have lauded people for dramatically improving our club (i.e. Cook) have worked to keep him at the club.

Quite honestly, some of the s**t in this thread about Russell is bordering on labelling him a saboteur and quite defamatory.

Aside from random Collison injuries (that can't be helped) injuries are very complex things with a great amount contributing to the causation

I trust in the likes of Sayers and Cook to do the right thing for the Carlton Football Club. Their approach in other areas demonstrates their positive intentions for the club. They're the ones with access to the evidence. Until they decide that Russell has to go then I'm going to hretsin my faith in their decision. We're in a better place than we've been for 20 years. They're not going to * it up if it was that simple.

Much of the injury list have consistently been made up of players we got on the cheap which were high end injury prone talent. Cheap for a reason.
It has taken 3 years to get Cuningham on the park, hard to protect yourself against drafting a body that has struggled to handle the rigours of footy so not so much a recruiting or S&C issue. Just unluck of the draw there. Martin injury plagued back story. McGov the same.

Going over old ground but I think with many of them it is a recruiting story as much as an S&C story. You look at Curnow and Doc as the alternative cases in point, once right have been fine. Walsh no preseason with serious back issues now tweaks a hammy. Can get that. Sos and Harry impact injuries so got to just take them. Cerra you could argue a mgmt case. Had 'tightness' played him now pinged. Too many moving parts to lay blame solely at one guy that does have track record external to us and also with some of current list coming of serious injury issues. It's f*cking frustrating however needs more of a lense provided to it than just sakc Russell.

Russell just signed a contract extension under Sayers and Cook. They must be seeing something more than what the punter is assuming.

 

[Jeremias]

Semantics.

Huh? No it isn't.

There is a clear and significant difference between the two.

 

[thylacine60]

Much of the injury list have consistently been made up of players we got on the cheap which were high end injury prone talent. Cheap for a reason.
It has taken 3 years to get Cuningham on the park, hard to protect yourself against drafting a body that has struggled to handle the rigours of footy so not so much a recruiting or S&C issue. Just unluck of the draw there. Martin injury plagued back story. McGov the same.

Going over old ground but I think with many of them it is a recruiting story as much as an S&C story. You look at Curnow and Doc as the alternative cases in point, once right have been fine. Walsh no preseason with serious back issues now tweaks a hammy. Can get that. Sos and Harry impact injuries so got to just take them. Cerra you could argue a mgmt case. Had 'tightness' played him now pinged. Too many moving parts to lay blame solely at one guy that does have track record external to us and also with some of current list coming of serious injury issues. It's f*cking frustrating however needs more of a lense provided to it than just sakc Russell.

Russell just signed a contract extension under Sayers and Cook. They must be seeing something more than what the punter is assuming.

please tell me you're not suggesting people here assume things regarding the club, it's practices and policies? you're not suggesting that are you?

 

[Wickzki]

Semantics.

It's perfectly fine to ask questions of the high performance manager. I myself have questions. He would be in a position to know the causation of these injuries.

However, failing that, we have no evidence to condemn him. Therefore, in order to condemn him, you are also condemning other people at the club for not putting the best interest of the club forward. For example, Brian Cook and Luke Sayers. As these other people who would have the information that we seek and to our knowledge have stuck firm with him.

Injuries are frustrating. We have every right to be upset and disappointed. However, we simply do not have the answers that we need to go further than to question what is happening.

It's more than semantics.

 

[JustOneTime]

I think the reason for the injuries in recent weeks is simply the players pushing so hard while playing Vossy's 'hard at it' contested game plan.

When the players played Vossy's chip it sideways plan and go slow 'control/tempo' plan at the start of the season we had no injuries.

Not that I understand internal workings of the club, Russell seems to me bog average for his time at Carlton. Neither great or bad. Basically carry on. I'd only question him if he was on huge money.

 

[HarryBeef]

I think the reason for the injuries in recent weeks is simply the players pushing so hard while playing Vossy's 'hard at it' contested game plan.

When the players played Vossy's chip it sideways plan and go slow 'control/tempo' plan at the start of the season we had no injuries.

Not that I understand internal workings of the club, Russell seems to me bog average for his time at Carlton. Neither great or bad. Basically carry on. I'd only question him if he was on huge money.

You don't think we look fit and strong?

 

[JustOneTime]

You don't think we look fit and strong?

I do. But dont you think all other teams also look fit and strong that are top 8?

 

[HarryBeef]

I do. But dont you think all other teams also look fit and strong that are top 8?

From my viewing we bullied the Pies last week.

But bring back Buttifant you reckon?

 

[JustOneTime]

From my viewing we bullied the Pies last week.

But bring back Buttifant you reckon?

I didnt say sack Russell right? I said carry on. I'm just vanilla on him due to soft tissue injuries. I don't attribute the collision injuries to him though.

When analysing anything, you dont quote one game...in any debate like you have done. You analyse your thoughts based on a long time period for balance of view. Carlton have missed a lot of players over a long period of time while Russell has been here.

Hence, bog average.

 

[Blueboyjay]

I like the fact we no longer look like a team of boys. For years we looked lean and skinny, but now!
Just look at Weiters, he's a man mountain. All our players don't look like they can be rag dolled, even Cotrell!

 

[HarryBeef]

I didnt say sack Russell right? I said carry on. I'm just vanilla on him due to soft tissue injuries. I don't attribute the collision injuries to him though.

When analysing anything, you dont quote one game...in any debate like you have done. You analyse your thoughts based on a long time period for balance of view. Carlton have missed a lot of players over a long period of time while Russell has been here.

Hence, bog average.

So you're vanilla on him for what's a tiny area of his job? He's the Director of High Performance, sure if he was the Director of Injury Prevention then you may have a point.

 

[JustOneTime]

I like the fact we no longer look like a team of boys. For years we looked lean and skinny, but now!
Just look at Weiters, he's a man mountain. All our players don't look like they can be rag dolled, even Cotrell!

They do look much better than years gone by. I'd hope so given we now have a mature age list.

 

[Arr0w]

Wondering if inheriting injury prone players is a consideration when determining high performance by external pundits

Charlie, Doc, Gov and getting Cuners, Martin in get shape

Even with injuries we are either matching or outworking the opposition

Personally, I sense the angst is more which player is out rather than the soft tissue injury

When Walsh went down, people seemed to renew their criticism, if that player was say Cincotta, would people have the same level of frustration?

Anyway, hopefully we start getting players back on the park over the next 4 weeks

 

[JustOneTime]

So you're vanilla on him for what's a tiny area of his job? He's the Director of High Performance, sure if he was the Director of Injury Prevention then you may have a point.

I don't mind if you love him and rate him highly. Go for it. We both cant see inside the club so it is really a glib view by both of us lacking in any real facts. I take a high level view only in that I see him partly 'accountable' for the soft tissue injuries. Maybe someone else is 'responsible' like the coaches game plan or the player himself but still think accountability lies with Russell.

 

[HarryBeef]

I don't mind if you love him and rate him highly. Go for it. We both cant see inside the club so it is really a glib view by both of us lacking in any real facts. I take a high level view only in that I see him partly 'accountable' for the soft tissue injuries. Maybe someone else is 'responsible' like the coaches game plan or the player himself but still think accountability lies with Russell.

I don't know enough to rate him and neither do you. I'm not the one saying he's doing a vanilla job.