Wow, that's interesting.
A mate of mine tore his years ago and never had surgery. He's in his early 50s and still playing footy, so it makes sense.
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Injury Blue Healers Medical Room - 2023
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A mate of mine tore his years ago and never had surgery. He's in his early 50s and still playing footy, so it makes sense.
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And "tightness" and "precaution" very often become 3 week injuries.
Sometimes it seems that these are just the new words we are using for "injury"
Brian Cook at conclusion of 2022 talked about looking closely at the fitness, strength and conditioning area.
The shake up, as you put it.
But I cant recall what the actual changes were? Can you help me out and point me to an article or articulate what they did.
Genuine query here
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Truth.
I have been a big supporter of the retention of Marchbank and Cuningham. The prospect of them “coming good” and the resultant upside far outweighs nabbing a couple of speculative guys late in the draft. We adopted a patient and structured program to get them fit for SUSTAINED on field contribution. Seemingly this has not happened. Five weeks in to the season they need to be playing and building. Barring a massive turn around, time has run out. I am disappointed, but it is reality.
Philp had a taste, but could never establish himself in the top team, so will likely join them in “oblivion”.
Williams is long term contracted so doesn’t enter these discussions. He also offers what we desperately need. Run, precise and creative disposal and game awareness. I remain confident he will come good. Will never repay his price tag, but que sera sera on that one.
Martin has another year on his contract, which is distressing as his injuries have also affected his output when “fit”. Was worth the investment, but unfortunately not wired to do the disciplined preparation required to cope with his physical challenges. Similar story for McGovern, who is thankfully out of contract at season’s end. He is a spectacular piece when fit and firing. Like Williams, he adds a layer to the team with the ability to create through precision and dare by foot. I am not a fan of his historically poor preparation, but will be a very hard call. He owes us heaps from a financial aspect when compared to on field output, but could be an important cog in a finals campaign. Must never be given more than a one year contract extension and the offer needs to reflect his output. I suspect the offer we can/should make him will be a deflating reality check for him which may prompt him to seek opportunity elsewhere. Fascinating watching later in the season.
They can at least update the injury list on a weekly basis, as bare minimum.
We dont need a print out of their diet and bathroom habits, granted.
However across the off season, it took them weeks to update on players, whilst twitter accounts of Tom Browne kept us informed.
Additional to this, guys like Cunningham over the course of the last 18mths at one point, completely disappeared from injury list updates.
And now we have Marchbank out for weeks with a mystery calf? Its clearly more serious, isnt it?
Totally agree we dont need blow by blow, but some weekly update and clarity beyond TBC would be nice
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I had a quick google and couldn't find anything. I think the gist of it was they changed some medical staff, whether it was added to or replaced I can’t remember. Sure someone on here will find the article with better skills than me
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why are people hung up over injury reports? what will they do with precise info if it were available?
I think thats fair.
The whole argument around not being transparent, if to not give the opposition an edge.
The thing is, its an 18 team comp. In a small country with low population. The players all use the same doctors and external consultants. Cottage industry.
So opposition clubs tend to have an idea about who will and wont play. Hence why our the blogs and forums get the intel ahead of the surprise omissions or late withdrawals.
The industry leaks like a sieve.
So, if we take the McGovern case. We probably should have left him out of the selected line up v Adelaide, if there was any niggle given his injury history.
And bring to Adelaide suitable replacement - Kemp and actually select a like for like for Doc - Cincotta.
Foxing all the way up to the warm up, is poor really.
Now we could argue, it came out of the blue, his injury. Reality is, in these forums he was rumoured to have an issue, wasnt he? If we are a professional club, they would have known...
Additonally benefit to focusing on placing a fit 22 in the park, is it means the coaches can plan with the talent they have. Not be disrupted by last minute withdrawal
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Can you show me a club that releases weekly updates on every single injured player
Tom Browne, that's your evidence?
Thanks for having a look. I cant locate anything either. I know the club doctor is still there, as a friend uses him as his GP.I had a quick google and couldn't find anything. I think the gist of it was they changed some medical staff, whether it was added to or replaced I can’t remember. Sure someone on here will find the article with better skills than me
We know Russell is still there. What we also know is Russell survived the 2021 review and had his responsibility recast.
So the only potential changes are to the program itself and the underlings?
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Cook publically commented / addressed this in 2022. Yet here we are, 5 rounds in with the same blokes injured or under injury clouds again.
The issue is, and valid to debate, is that should more have been done at end of 2022?
People lamenting the loss of players, and the challenge it brings us to onfield coherency.
You cant plan for Docherty or ZacW injuries, just luck really. But the other guys, Martin, Marchy, Cunners, Gov, Philp all have long term durability issues
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OK we have injury issues again. It's a big question over whether it's the staff such as Russell or is it the players. Let's not forget over the years SOS brought in a lot of talented players who he was able to get mostly because they had not played much AFL footy due to injuries. Some came good. Some have not.
Williams, Kennedy, McGovern, Kemp, Martin, Marchbank, they probably got to us because their bodies had been unreliable. Some have come good, some have not.
Looking at our injuries this season there are a lot of feet injuries. Seems there have been over the last 20 years at Carlton. Unless we are running on a dangerous surface or using poor footware it's probably not a staff issue.
Docherty's injury is not management related.
Marchbank and Martin. Both have calf injuries. Could be management but I doubt it. According to the report both should be in training which means both should be close to playing. Calf injuries happen.
Williams is an ACL, probably just bad luck.
Owies Hamstring, probably just bad luck, typical footy injury.
Ok so it's not looking too much like mismanagement to me.
What about Injury prevention?
What are we doing in terms of injury prevention exercises? Is our injury prevention program any good?
What I would like to question, are we doing exercises to prevent injury? When you injure ligaments in a joint, such as rolled ankle, ACL rehab etc, you do exercises to strengthen and stabilise the joint and help things heal correctly. Rubber bands, wobble boards, weight bearing etc. Is it worth our players going through these exercises to keep knees, shoulders and ankles stronger and more stable? Are there exercises that prevent foot injuries we could be doing? Exercises to rehab players from Hamstring and Calf injuries, should they be used on a weekly basis? Am I onto something here is is this something we already do or would this not help at all?
Injuries can be the difference between making finals and not or winning the flag and not. Injury prevention should be right up there with fitness and recovery. Players may have done the weights and running, they may be fit and strong but what about injury prevention? Could they be stronger and more stable in the joints? Could they be stronger in the hammies and back etc?
Do AFL clubs do this? If not should they? If not should we be the trailblazing club who begins doing this? Could our players have better joint strength and stability than the rest?
Hamstring, Knee, Ankle, back, quad, calf, shoulder and feet injuries. Every week we could go through injury prevention exercises on these areas to prevent issues here. They would not be strenuous and I am sure we would have the time. Players could do most of it at home. Seeing as our players are professional athletes I don't see why not.
I know if I had my footy career again this is what I would do. Instead of putting all the effort into running and weights, put a lot more into ankle stabilisation, knee strength and back, hamstring and glute strength. Not waiting for the injury to arrive to do these exercises but doing them as part of my training. No doubt I would have played less games injured and missed less games. No doubt I would have had less injuries and got more from my fitness training. So the professionals should be doing the same I would hope.
Does Russell stay or go
We need to figure out whether he's a reason we could be fitter or could have less injuries. How do we do that? Go through high performance candidates, show them our records with training and rehab (if we keep records of this, we should) and see what they have to say? Do we go after someone who thinks they could do better? Do we go with someone who wants to bring change? Is that person going to be legit and bring results or make things worse?
Russell is a proven person in this role. The question is has the game gone past him? Have things changed to a point where his methods are out dated? Do his methods not include enough injury prevention?
Is it the players, the recruitment or the training? If figuring out this was easy then running a footy department would be easy and everyone would be excellent at it.
The main question that needs to be asked is are we up to date or out dated with our fitness training and injury prevention? If so, how do we get better? Is Andrew Russell willing to improve and further his skills or is he stuck in his ways? Does he need to?
Williams, Kennedy, McGovern, Kemp, Martin, Marchbank, they probably got to us because their bodies had been unreliable. Some have come good, some have not.
Looking at our injuries this season there are a lot of feet injuries. Seems there have been over the last 20 years at Carlton. Unless we are running on a dangerous surface or using poor footware it's probably not a staff issue.
Docherty's injury is not management related.
Marchbank and Martin. Both have calf injuries. Could be management but I doubt it. According to the report both should be in training which means both should be close to playing. Calf injuries happen.
Williams is an ACL, probably just bad luck.
Owies Hamstring, probably just bad luck, typical footy injury.
Ok so it's not looking too much like mismanagement to me.
What about Injury prevention?
What are we doing in terms of injury prevention exercises? Is our injury prevention program any good?
What I would like to question, are we doing exercises to prevent injury? When you injure ligaments in a joint, such as rolled ankle, ACL rehab etc, you do exercises to strengthen and stabilise the joint and help things heal correctly. Rubber bands, wobble boards, weight bearing etc. Is it worth our players going through these exercises to keep knees, shoulders and ankles stronger and more stable? Are there exercises that prevent foot injuries we could be doing? Exercises to rehab players from Hamstring and Calf injuries, should they be used on a weekly basis? Am I onto something here is is this something we already do or would this not help at all?
Injuries can be the difference between making finals and not or winning the flag and not. Injury prevention should be right up there with fitness and recovery. Players may have done the weights and running, they may be fit and strong but what about injury prevention? Could they be stronger and more stable in the joints? Could they be stronger in the hammies and back etc?
Do AFL clubs do this? If not should they? If not should we be the trailblazing club who begins doing this? Could our players have better joint strength and stability than the rest?
Hamstring, Knee, Ankle, back, quad, calf, shoulder and feet injuries. Every week we could go through injury prevention exercises on these areas to prevent issues here. They would not be strenuous and I am sure we would have the time. Players could do most of it at home. Seeing as our players are professional athletes I don't see why not.
I know if I had my footy career again this is what I would do. Instead of putting all the effort into running and weights, put a lot more into ankle stabilisation, knee strength and back, hamstring and glute strength. Not waiting for the injury to arrive to do these exercises but doing them as part of my training. No doubt I would have played less games injured and missed less games. No doubt I would have had less injuries and got more from my fitness training. So the professionals should be doing the same I would hope.
Does Russell stay or go
We need to figure out whether he's a reason we could be fitter or could have less injuries. How do we do that? Go through high performance candidates, show them our records with training and rehab (if we keep records of this, we should) and see what they have to say? Do we go after someone who thinks they could do better? Do we go with someone who wants to bring change? Is that person going to be legit and bring results or make things worse?
Russell is a proven person in this role. The question is has the game gone past him? Have things changed to a point where his methods are out dated? Do his methods not include enough injury prevention?
Is it the players, the recruitment or the training? If figuring out this was easy then running a footy department would be easy and everyone would be excellent at it.
The main question that needs to be asked is are we up to date or out dated with our fitness training and injury prevention? If so, how do we get better? Is Andrew Russell willing to improve and further his skills or is he stuck in his ways? Does he need to?
Beyond Blue
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I think you also need to add Boyd to that list of players with long term durability issues. By the time he is available again he would have missed 2/3rds of the games played in his time at the club.
Of great concern in his case is that the injury seems to be of a similar nature, that is foot related suggesting his feet can’t handle the extra loads required at the higher level.
Not sure why we keep complaining about injuries,it’s a part of the game every team has them some more crucial than others.
You need a squad of 30 ish players to get to the top.We have 6-8 players in the reserves we can call on that would fill those positions.
Unfortunately we for some reason are not gelling as a team right now.Other teams have worked us out so it’s up to the coaching group to come up with another way to combat that.
Two main issues we have are getting smashed in the midfield and teams flooding back to form team defence against our two biggest weapons.
There’s time but we need to reset.
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You need a squad of 30 ish players to get to the top.We have 6-8 players in the reserves we can call on that would fill those positions.
Unfortunately we for some reason are not gelling as a team right now.Other teams have worked us out so it’s up to the coaching group to come up with another way to combat that.
Two main issues we have are getting smashed in the midfield and teams flooding back to form team defence against our two biggest weapons.
There’s time but we need to reset.
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agree but last preseason was the time to do a bit of resetting.…what options we got now 5 rounds into a season. Not a very proactive bunch of coaches It seems.
It's pure psychology. Knowledge gives the illusion of certainty. Certainty gives the illusion of control. Control gives a sense of safety. And if there's one thing the lizard brain wants more than anything else, it's safety.
Possibly could also be that some just want confirmation that their incense sessions are working lol
KohPhi
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Use their University of Google sports science quals to tell everyone how they'd do a better job the Russell me thinks..
thylacine60
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I have mine framed on the wall.
Strange how you are in a discussion thread about injuries and you think it is weird that people would want information, to discuss them.
Weekly injury updates have been provided for year's by many clubs. If you don't like to know that detail, fine, it's weird that you are in here, but fine. You don't really need to pot posters who do want more transparency and detail in this area.
Wait a minute
You had a crack that there wasn't an update on Marchbank, but it was present at the top of this thread
You moaned that there was no info regarding Saad's hammy, but Voss mentioned it in his presser
You are, still, making claims that are false. Again, which club has provided a weekly update on all injured players
I understand that you or others want a more regular updates (still not sure the purpose if there is no change), but why is it inadequate and or a failure by the club, given no other club is doing it
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thylacine60
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why should people demanding more information be seen as ok in this thread and those calling out their entitled efforts be seen as "weird"? there may well be unknown privacy issues, medical ethics, uncertainty in diagnoses, time delays, confidentiality & continual in-house briefings around injuries and rehabilitation plans - or maybe the club thinks the player's health comes before the supporters need to know?
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Stop bumping this thread for no reason.
It gives some of us heart palpitations.
Also quit the point scoring.
Thanks all!
It gives some of us heart palpitations.
Also quit the point scoring.
Thanks all!
There’s a simple reason. Our injury performance has been abysmal for a long time. Worst than most others. If our performance was the same as others then the standard of update could be the same.
But it’s not and so the expected threshold is higher. A bit like if you kept being at the bottom of the ladder the fans would expect more transparency.
If I was a West Coast supporter I would be very keen to get very comprehensive updates. As a Lions supporter I wouldn’t care at all.
That you don’t want the update is fine and up to you. But many others do.
thylacine60
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sorry but this just makes no sense whatsoever.........
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