Bluemour Season Blast Off Edition XXXIII

[katmanblue]

The critical thing here (and I don’t want to be dismissive) is that system players require a system..

if they don’t have it what you get is a whipping boy.

#notenoughlove

 

[Lovers]

Don't want him Back. Average coach

You could possibly say the same about Crips, I fear opposition coaches have worked him out, slow and in the second half of the season showed he has less tricks than Kennedy.

mate please, they havent figured cripps out, hes been injured and our midfield coaching was diabolical, we couldnt get a ruck to remotely position the ball to cripps' advantage if their lifes depended on it. Whoever becomes our midfield coach has their work cut out for them since barker and stanton didnt do anything over the past year or 2 but make our midfield go backwards

 

[carlton_99]

Is there any reason for the delay in submitting the Hewett offer?

 

[Ash24]

Well, it's 2pm folks. Anything exciting going to happen today?

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Kennedy did too, actually, I believe - said that his form at the tail end of the year stemmed from a renewed focus on his strengths rather than trying to improve all his weaknesses. I feel like maybe our coaches got a bit carried away trying to round out players instead of playing them to their strengths.

Cripps slimming down to improve his outside play, then bulking back up.
SPS spending a lot of time down back "learning to defend".
LOB spending time in the reserves working on his contested game.
Williams playing as a full time mid until it became painfully clear he needed to go back.
Setterfield to the wing

Think we'll see things simplified a bit under Voss, at least initially. There's always room for a bit of positional experimentation, but we seemed to be playing a bit of musical chairs here when our list has all the pieces if they're put in the right spots.

How about Martin coming back from a long break under done then never recovering for the rest of season and still played .. probably add fish to that aswell ..

 

[Banga19]

Is there any reason for the delay in submitting the Hewett offer?

My guess is Sydney trying to decode the AFL compo pick system, maybe waiting to see what Adelaide get back for J Kelly. I'm sure they wont match, but you'd be careful to make sure the compo is better than what you'll get in a trade given the makey-uppey nature of the whole thing.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

My guess is Sydney trying to decode the AFL compo pick system, maybe waiting to see what Adelaide get back for J Kelly. I'm sure they wont match, but you'd be careful to make sure the compo is better than what you'll get in a trade given the makey-uppey nature of the whole thing.

He is said to be really happy to stay in Sydney so if they match the offer he will most likely stay -- they know this ..

 

[ferrisb]

Lewis Young now? I just don't think it's the right way to address the key talls. Clubs don't let the good ones walk cheaply. Dogs went for years trying to find them via cast offs and came up short. We'd be better off in the long run getting back into the early first round rather than gold panning in cast off creek.

I think key defenders is one area where looking through cast-offs can find more gems (or even foot soldiers) than other positions...

 

[ferrisb]

In what world is it appropriate for more of our fans to be more keen on Lewis Young than Adam Cerra?

There's a huge discrepancy on cost...

Lewis Young is a t-shirt on sale for $5. Cerra is a hand-made suit at full RRP.

The suit is much fancier, but lots of people get more satisfaction from finding the t-shirt on sale...

 

[FlowersByIrene]

He is said to be really happy to stay in Sydney so if they match the offer he will most likely stay -- they know this ..

Sydney can't match the offer without ****ing themselves. I'm surprised it is taking this long, maybe we just are timing the news story.

 

[CrippasHeavyLoad]

Is there any reason for the delay in submitting the Hewett offer?

If the offer has been submitted Sydney have 48hrs to decide if they wish to match


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[btdg]

Richmond would have every reason to offer pick 26, citing inadequate development, lack of size and fitness. Sure, we then proceed to walk away, but if the goal is to maximise his trade value he then walks 12 months later when OOC.

I'm not as big a critic of Dunstan as some, but Dow's ability to find a target improved considerably where his never has. If we trade Dow and LOB while delisting Ramsay and recruiting Dunstan, I am going to be rather irate.

There is not a chance in the world Richmond would give up pick 15 for Dow. Maybe pick 26 but I'd guess he has less value than SPS. Dow is a center square midfielder with shaky disposal who only had more than 20 touches three times in 17 games and who has been hopeless when tried in any other position on the ground.

If Dow (and to a lesser extent O'Brien) hadn't played well against juniors 4 years ago and been top 10 draft picks, we'd be clamouring for them to be delisted.

Both are probably worth keeping on our list because I don't think any of our mids (except Walsh) showed their potential under Teague, and becuase of the disruption of the last 2 years. Both seem good clubmen and worth another year. But I think it's crazy to expect other clubs to put any worth in them simply because they were highly rated draft prospects half a decade ago.

Dunstan - he's a meh prospect to me. We know he can get the ball at least but it is hard to see him going toe to toe with the Bulldogs/Melbourne midfield and offering anything more than we already have...

 

[carlton_99]

If the offer has been submitted Sydney have 48hrs to decide if they wish to match


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I understand that but doesnt the submission get publicised

 

[Wickzki]

I understand that but doesnt the submission get publicised

You are correct.

 

[btdg]

On a different note, I spoke with a friend who works at a footy club (not ours). He absolutely ripped some of our off-season off-field moves as being '20 years behind the times'.

In particular: Greg Williams, who is very old school, tough love, and doesn't really have much sense of the new fandangled tactics or technical stuff (he also has a chronic brain disorder, not that should preclude people from working but hardly what you want). Voss as a coach is perceived as being a good bloke and motivator, but not so good with the tactical stuff or the development of players. Hamill - similar story there too - a 'motivator' rather than a teacher or

Basically, we're seen to be putting together a great 1990s coaching panel: good blokes, jobs for the boys, guys who keep it simple and call it as they see it etc, but a panel that is miles off in terms of tactical strength, use of data/analytics, and the modern side of things.

I'm not saying I agree necessarily with those sentiments at all - that's just what was conveyed to me. My take is we're hoping to address the cultural side of things first, and that to be honest, that might matter more given where we have been. Will we be better off with a 'roll the ball out and let them play' coaching staff who maybe don't develop the players or game plan? A club philosophy that is just 90s motivation?

With Voss, that actually worked ok with the veteran team he took over. They'd looked to be fading but he coaxed some life out of aging guys and initially had a decent run. But after 5 years, with the young guys notn nreally coming through and the old stars gone, it fell away a bit. For us: I reckon there's some hope there. We aren't a young team any more, and so much of our short-term success is going to be wrapped up in whether the new coach can get the best out of our mid-age players (24-30): Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Docherty, Williams, Saad, Jones, Martin, McGovern, Hewitt (presumably), Pittonet, Newnes, Newman, Silvagni, etc. Throw in Walsh / Cerra as young guys who play with maturity and we really have a mature core that should be playing for premierships - we have very few untested/unproven young guys (and those who aren't on the list below have shown.... very little).

So I'm not doom and gloom about that assessment, nor do I speak about someone who is hugely influential, just an insider take.

 

[Gethelred]

There is not a chance in the world Richmond would give up pick 15 for Dow. Maybe pick 26 but I'd guess he has less value than SPS. Dow is a center square midfielder with shaky disposal who only had more than 20 touches three times in 17 games and who has been hopeless when tried in any other position on the ground.

If Dow (and to a lesser extent O'Brien) hadn't played well against juniors 4 years ago and been top 10 draft picks, we'd be clamouring for them to be delisted.

Both are probably worth keeping on our list because I don't think any of our mids (except Walsh) showed their potential under Teague, and becuase of the disruption of the last 2 years. Both seem good clubmen and worth another year. But I think it's crazy to expect other clubs to put any worth in them simply because they were highly rated draft prospects half a decade ago.

Pick 26 because he's still contracted, OOC at the end of next season.

Beyond that, I think that's a bit of a reductive reading, both of the players themselves and of the way they're considered here. There have been plenty of players that have taken a mite more time than both LOB and Dow to come on, and given the failure of our development over the last 10 years, it is worth spending the next year (in short, a second and third season under Power as development coach) to see if they can improve to AFL level and above.

Where they were taken in the draft is immaterial to their ability. I don't want them delisted, and I didn't want them delisted. To say that the only reason I think there's something to work with there is because they were both first round picks ignores the fact that an awful lot of us watch footy and don't just make decisions based on inanities.

Dunstan - he's a meh prospect to me. We know he can get the ball at least but it is hard to see him going toe to toe with the Bulldogs/Melbourne midfield and offering anything more than we already have...

That's the thing; it's not getting the ball, it's disposing to advantage that's the problem with him. He is worse than Dow is, and Dow has shown marked improvement this year in this area where he's never moved past being a bit turnover prone.

If you're on the edge of delisting Dow, Dunstan's not going to fill you with joy either.

 

[btdg]

Pick 26 because he's still contracted, OOC at the end of next season.

Beyond that, I think that's a bit of a reductive reading, both of the players themselves and of the way they're considered here. There have been plenty of players that have taken a mite more time than both LOB and Dow to come on, and given the failure of our development over the last 10 years, it is worth spending the next year (in short, a second and third season under Power as development coach) to see if they can improve to AFL level and above.

Where they were taken in the draft is immaterial to their ability. I don't want them delisted, and I didn't want them delisted. To say that the only reason I think there's something to work with there is because they were both first round picks ignores the fact that an awful lot of us watch footy and don't just make decisions based on inanities.

That's the thing; it's not getting the ball, it's disposing to advantage that's the problem with him. He is worse than Dow is, and Dow has shown marked improvement this year in this area where he's never moved past being a bit turnover prone.

If you're on the edge of delisting Dow, Dunstan's not going to fill you with joy either.

Genuine question: are there any good AFL midfielders who showed as little as Dow/O'Brien in their first 4 years? I don't think either has a game that you can really point to where they had an impact (although I guess Dow did get a Brownlow vote this year in a bit of an odd match vs Freo)

I agree on Dunstan - I don't really see him being the answer.

With Dow and O'Brien, the argument is that both still look like lost little boys when they play, and their development the last 2 yeasr has been stifled/ruined by our club and COVID not letting them get reserves time. I agree completely that another year for both makes sense, definitely more than adding Dunstan to clog the rotations.

I'm actually worried more that like this year we're adding too many guys, and it'll create positional congestion and problems.

In the midfield, we want time for Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, and presumably Hewitt and Cerra. That only leaves 1-2 rotation spots - and yet Williams, Dow, Curnow, Fisher, Cuningham, Gibbons (if re-signed) would all have claims to time there.

Teague got caught in two minds between old stagers and young guys, and I hope the same doesn't happen for Voss. Better to simplify things so guys know where they stand...

 

[La Dispute]

I get the feeling Diesel is going to be pretty hands on in his role. Has a lot of knowledge to pass on, and can see him acting as a pseudo coach to assist with the development of our young midfield. Going to be far more involved now he is on the payroll.

Feels like we are swinging pretty hard in the opposite direction, but Sayers has also brought in Tim Lincoln who has an analytics background and I'm assuming some of the usual performance controls/metrics are going to extend to our coaching and playing group. More a hunch than anything else, but it'd make sense given this has been sorely lacking for some time.

Keep hearing conflicting things about Voss and his tactical nous. His strength at Brisbane was clearly his ability to communicate with players, but Port supporters and the club have been pretty assured in his credentials as a tactician. He's been in the industry long enough to develop his own formulas and his work with the Port midfield group indicates he's got some technical knowledge. Putting aside finals results, Port's gameplan does look phenomenal when they're up and running.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Dow doesn't have far to go at all.

Agree.

Feel he took some big steps this year.

Was finding the ball and winning clearances alot more. Was also using the ball wayyyyy better than previous years.

If Voss can get the defensive side of his game going, and he gets some more midfield minutes, he can have a break out year.

If we can have Walsh average 30 touches, and Cripps Cerra and Dow average 25 ish each. Big year coming up.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Voss as a coach is perceived as being a good bloke and motivator, but not so good with the tactical stuff or the development of players. Hamill - similar story there too - a 'motivator' rather than a teacher or

Basically, we're seen to be putting together a great 1990s coaching panel: good blokes, jobs for the boys, guys who keep it simple and call it as they see it etc, but a panel that is miles off in terms of tactical strength, use of data/analytics, and the modern side of things

Interesting take.
I wonder how much is fact v industry gossip?
However I am still hoping we'll be bringing in someone of the ilk of a Craig Jennings or Rob Harding.
How much we need them to drive the strategy I guess is the question.
Probably isn't too great if we don't get anyone like that regardless of how prominent their role.

 

[carlton_99]

You are correct.

Wonder why then.

 

[jj1978]

Can we ban Scott Lucas

Scott Lucas

Age

47

Ht

192cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

3.1

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

17.2

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.8

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

0.6

3star

G

4.4

5star

or any ex * scum from managing our players! Already sounds like he's wheeling and dealing to ream a big deal from us for Walsh or wouldn't put it past him into getting Walsh to *.

 

[La Dispute]

Genuine question: are there any good AFL midfielders who showed as little as Dow/O'Brien in their first 4 years? I don't think either has a game that you can really point to where they had an impact (although I guess Dow did get a Brownlow vote this year in a bit of an odd match vs Freo)

Karl Amon was a pretty generic outside midfielder and averaged roughly the same number of possessions as LOB in his 4th year. Built very slow and has become (arguably) an elite player. Need to look at that kind of success and model LOB in a similar fashion.

Dow is a little harder, because there are few players with his set of attributes. His biggest focus over the pre-season has to be developing physically and finally increasing his aerobic capacity. He can hunt the ball, but if he doesn't have the body to compete he's not worth starting. Dangerfield was a bit of a slow burn, for a minor comparison, but he bulked up quickly and was built like a brick shithouse 3 years in. He also has the figjam persona, which Dow sadly doesn't possess.

 

[Doro]

I think key defenders is one area where looking through cast-offs can find more gems (or even foot soldiers) than other positions...

Well there's probably been more than key forwards, point being if they're decent then all clubs will try hard to hold onto them.

 

[La Dispute]

I think we will side with wanting Young over Brander. Way more exposed form as a key defender, ridiculous athleticism, and seemingly pretty malleable. Austin's relationship with the guy would surely favour it too.

Also means we receive some picks back for SPS that can be used in the Cerra deal OR it grants us something to take to the draft.