Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[Blue and Silver]

Leaky board has tightened up

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[RoyalBlues]

This Year . . .

 

[RoyalBlues]

Leaky board has tightened up

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“6 months in a leaky board” - there’s a song in that . . .

The Enz justifies the memes?

 

[Wickzki]

See this is where I disagree. I think very few players have the ability to only play one position and deserve a chance to show this. Liam Jones would have been lost to AFL before he was tried in the backline. Look at Dan Rioli and Leon Davis to name just two that have reinvented themselves by moving positions.

They tried to play Dow forward at times in the VFL.

He demonstrated that he just doesn't have the ability to do so.

Your response to mine was a good post but I'm still yet to hear the last player we traded or delisted that has made us regret that decision. All the while the list of players we've perservered with and have come good continues to grow.

 

[SurreyBlue]

What the * is going on?
In the good old days we could expect 10 new rumours after the B&F .
This year, not a dickie bird !!!

IMO - the list is here now. We don’t need to do anything, except go to the draft.
I think the club agrees. I know Sayers does!!

 

[Blues_1864]

They tried to play Dow forward at times in the VFL.

He demonstrated that he just doesn't have the ability to do so.

Your response to mine was a good post but I'm still yet to hear the last player we traded or delisted that has made us regret that decision. All the while the list of players we've perservered with and have come good continues to grow.

Well... I don't want to open the perpetual can of worms, but as a 12-month proposition, Casboult is the most obvious recent example. I understand the meritorious arguments raised by many in support of developing younger players, but I also think it is possible to say he would have enjoyed opportunities in 2022 in the key positions at both ends, regardless.

Going back, there is a case to say we delisted Nick Holman prematurely, but it could also be argued that he needed that kick up the backside to become the player recalled by the Suns to good effect. I guess I view it in terms of the players we retained instead (Nick Graham et al.).

Mitch Robinson is in a different category again... but he did win a share of Brisbane's Best and Fairest in his first year there. Clearly we'd have been better as a playing group if there had been a way to keep him.

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

There are multiple clubs interested in Dow. Although his preference is to stay, it would appear the club is looking to keep one of Dow or Setterfield. Depending on who could land us the best trade.

This is a pretty disappointing outcome for us if true. Setterfield after being out of sorts for better part of 2 years really fnished strong. Maybe the penny has finally dropped, I still have belief if he plays to his potential he would be better than Kennedy for us who we just gave a 3 year contract to.

And Dow....all has been said before but there is still hope and a flickering flame there. Worth a shot to keep persisting as he gives us something a little different to our other mids, hence multiple clubs are interested.

We just moved on a high pick in Stocker and SPS last year. I wouldn't really want to be doing that too many times for the sake of a pick in the 30's or 40's, especially in this draft.

I'd even make the more brutal decision to delist a contracted Fogarty and pay out his contract, as harsh as it would be but we know he has severe limitations unfortunately.

If we were on the other side of the equation and players like Dow or Setterfield were on the market we'd be exploring the possibility and be quite happy to get them in for a 40's pick, or cheaper.

 

[Blue Bloods]

Well... I don't want to open the perpetual can of worms, but as a 12-month proposition, Casboult is the most obvious recent example. I understand the meritorious arguments raised by many in support of developing younger players, but I also think it is possible to say he would have enjoyed opportunities in 2022 in the key positions at both ends, regardless.

Going back, there is a case to say we delisted Nick Holman prematurely, but it could also be argued that he needed that kick up the backside to become the player recalled by the Suns to good effect. I guess I view it in terms of the players we retained instead (Nick Graham et al.).

Mitch Robinson is in a different category again... but he did win a share of Brisbane's Best and Fairest in his first year there. Clearly we'd have been better as a playing group if there had been a way to keep him.

Mitch Robinson was playing good football for us, but got in a fight and lied to the club. Was a hard call for the club but imo a correct call for a young team starting to focus on culture.

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

People keep talking up Dow's burst, think it has become a complete fallacy

Not a fallacy.

Overrated maybe and lack of display more recently (obviously..) but it exists.

More than every single one of our midfielders anyway.

 

[Blue Bloods]

Not a fallacy.

Overrated maybe and lack of display more recently (obviously..) but it exists.

More than every single one of our midfielders anyway.

Yep Dow has some speed and think he deserves another year, mainly because we won’t get much anyway in a trade.

Problem with Dow’s speed is it is never used to chase down and tackle others, is there any vision of that?

 

[blue healer]

They tried to play Dow forward at times in the VFL.

He demonstrated that he just doesn't have the ability to do so.

Your response to mine was a good post but I'm still yet to hear the last player we traded or delisted that has made us regret that decision. All the while the list of players we've perservered with and have come good continues to grow.

I don't see the VFL so can only accept that he played some in the forwards but I'm tipping they were only periods, I'd be surprised if he played predominately as a forward in any game. Edit: Although I did notice he kicked 15 goals from 16 games which gives him a goal average better than any of our small AFL forwards.

I didn't even address your query on regretted trades as I'm fully aware that there have been none since 2015 other than, maybe, Touey.

I don't see this, however as any kind of badge of honour. Talking about the draft only, in the first 5 years of our rebuild we drafted 23 players. Of that 23 we have moved on 11 including Stocker who could well be the first one we're forced to regret. SPS is the only one of those 11 that we got anything at all for and whilst we turned it in to Young it still was a packet of crisps.

I'm not sure that is something to be super proud of, in fact, it indicates there was a lot of very bad draft choices in that time. I'd say that's closer to bad drafting than good list management, considering we still have 12 players drafted between 2015 and 2019 and are still yet to play finals 7 years later.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I'd say that's closer to bad drafting than good list management, considering we still have 12 players drafted between 2015 and 2019

What's the AFL average?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Well... I don't want to open the perpetual can of worms, but as a 12-month proposition, Casboult is the most obvious recent example. I understand the meritorious arguments raised by many in support of developing younger players, but I also think it is possible to say he would have enjoyed opportunities in 2022 in the key positions at both ends, regardless.

Going back, there is a case to say we delisted Nick Holman prematurely, but it could also be argued that he needed that kick up the backside to become the player recalled by the Suns to good effect. I guess I view it in terms of the players we retained instead (Nick Graham et al.).

Mitch Robinson is in a different category again... but he did win a share of Brisbane's Best and Fairest in his first year there. Clearly we'd have been better as a playing group if there had been a way to keep him.

Robbo ran our of chances here, and I know many Carlton fans were upset we got rid of Jeffy as well, but he had 2 good years at the Dees and then faded away.

Now granted we probably should have handled their departures from the club a bit better, bur we didn't really lose all that much long term letting them go

Grigg was the one we let go over the years that hurt the most (aside from Kennedy) but he wanted to go, unfortunately we got an absolute Poo Poo return from Richmond in the trade.

That's footy though. No point looking back really.

 

[Arr0w]

Not a fallacy.

Overrated maybe and lack of display more recently (obviously..) but it exists.

More than every single one of our midfielders anyway.

A few times in those highlights, seems like trying to build his tank has effected his burst from the early days

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

See this is where I disagree. I think very few players have the ability to only play one position and deserve a chance to show this. Liam Jones would have been lost to AFL before he was tried in the backline. Look at Dan Rioli and Leon Davis to name just two that have reinvented themselves by moving positions.

Do we class that move as a success? I think that really just prolonged the career of a very average player. It was good for the player but was it good for the club?

 

[blue healer]

What's the AFL average?

Does anybody care?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

IMO - the list is here now. We don’t need to do anything, except go to the draft.
I think the club agrees. I know Sayers does!!

I think that's pretty close to accurate. I think our next step comes from within and some of our what our current best 22 players are, being dropped back to the two's. I'm talking the likes of your JSOS, Fisher, Martin types being replaced in the best 22. Thats where our Premiership push comes from IMO.

 

[blue healer]

Do we class that move as a success? I think that really just prolonged the career of a very average player. It was good for the player but was it good for the club?

Does the measure of success in list management versatility have to always be a premiership?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Does the measure of success in list management versatility have to always be a premiership?

I never mentioned premiership success. I queried whether this was a success. I dont think it was. For all the hype on here , IMO he was an average AFL defender. As I said, it prolonged and average AFL player's career, but was the investment in his move to defence a success for the club? I lean towards no.

 

[Blues_1864]

Do we class that move as a success? I think that really just prolonged the career of a very average player. It was good for the player but was it good for the club?

I think it is hard to make a judgement without ever knowing what the alternative scenario would have been. Who plays CHB in the Bolton-Teague era, if not Jones? Some draftee, to be chewed up and spat out by the system, because they weren't ready? Seems likely, based on the career trajectories of our contemporaneous centremen, Dow and Petrevski-Seton.

Jones provided some breathing space for the younger, smaller bodies around him, which was important with the ball pouring into our D50 the way it used to. I think he helped us. Even in 2022, he probably would have been our CHB in Round 1.

(Having said that, I think the Dogs are making a mistake - he won't be that same player now. Even before he departed Carlton, he was the second-oldest key backman in the AFL, behind Tarrant, and I think the end will come very quickly for Jones, athleticism or not.)

 

[GT619]

Hunt would have been good for us

Unfortunately we weren’t in the hunt

 

[Bluebag13]

Robbo ran our of chances here, and I know many Carlton fans were upset we got rid of Jeffy as well, but he had 2 good years at the Dees and then faded away.

Now granted we probably should have handled their departures from the club a bit better, bur we didn't really lose all that much long term letting them go

Grigg was the one we let go over the years that hurt the most (aside from Kennedy) but he wanted to go, unfortunately we got an absolute Poo Poo return from Richmond in the trade.

That's footy though. No point looking back really.

You can in laidler as well. Seemed like everyone bar the coach liked him


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[BlueJet]

I never mentioned premiership success. I queried whether this was a success. I dont think it was. For all the hype on here , IMO he was an average AFL defender. As I said, it prolonged and average AFL player's career, but was the investment in his move to defence a success for the club? I lean towards no.

It comes down to how you view him.
Fair enough that you saw him as being average down back, I saw him as being comfortably better than that.

 

[HarryFlashman]

This is a pretty disappointing outcome for us if true. Setterfield after being out of sorts for better part of 2 years really fnished strong. Maybe the penny has finally dropped, I still have belief if he plays to his potential he would be better than Kennedy for us who we just gave a 3 year contract to.

And Dow....all has been said before but there is still hope and a flickering flame there. Worth a shot to keep persisting as he gives us something a little different to our other mids, hence multiple clubs are interested.

We just moved on a high pick in Stocker and SPS last year. I wouldn't really want to be doing that too many times for the sake of a pick in the 30's or 40's, especially in this draft.

I'd even make the more brutal decision to delist a contracted Fogarty and pay out his contract, as harsh as it would be but we know he has severe limitations unfortunately.

If we were on the other side of the equation and players like Dow or Setterfield were on the market we'd be exploring the possibility and be quite happy to get them in for a 40's pick, or cheaper.

I don’t think even at his max potential Setterfield comes close to Kennedy. Kennedy is a better midfielder in all regards, is great mark & good kick at goal. Setters isn’t exactly known for taking a grab or kicking a goal. Setters a better runner but that’s about it.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I don't see the VFL so can only accept that he played some in the forwards but I'm tipping they were only periods, I'd be surprised if he played predominately as a forward in any game. Edit: Although I did notice he kicked 15 goals from 16 games which gives him a goal average better than any of our small AFL forwards.

I didn't even address your query on regretted trades as I'm fully aware that there have been none since 2015 other than, maybe, Touey.

I don't see this, however as any kind of badge of honour. Talking about the draft only, in the first 5 years of our rebuild we drafted 23 players. Of that 23 we have moved on 11 including Stocker who could well be the first one we're forced to regret. SPS is the only one of those 11 that we got anything at all for and whilst we turned it in to Young it still was a packet of crisps.

I'm not sure that is something to be super proud of, in fact, it indicates there was a lot of very bad draft choices in that time. I'd say that's closer to bad drafting than good list management, considering we still have 12 players drafted between 2015 and 2019 and are still yet to play finals 7 years later.

FYI- goals were kicked as a mid fielder, was very impressive how he hit the score board