Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[blue healer]

Imagine yourself as a Carlton player drafted in Dow's position.

You've seen a number of your mates persisted with, given "final" opportunities or outright delisted before being rookie listed. Every time the club does this the player's career is revitalised. The kick up the backside has worked, the additional hard work they've put into doing what the club demands pays dividends.

At the same time you have seen just as many - perhaps even more - depart the club. Some of them given supposedly better opportunities elsewhere. None of them have yet to make the club regret it's decision including the latest one to do this, SPS.

IF you were contracted and saw both of these scenarios being played out simultaneously you'd want to stay too.

It's clearly a case of the player wanting the club more than the club wanting the player and it's very easy to see why.

That's not to say we won't eventually get stung by delisting the wrong player but it hasn't happened recently.

I'm afraid I disagree that you'd want to stay and, if he were my son or brother, I'd definitely be advising him to explore his options.

During the debate about sacking Teague last year, one of primary criticisms on this board was that we had failed miserably in developing our young players and this very conveniently overlooked the fact that throughout his tenure there was no VFL which, oddly, is the development league. But this isn't about Teague, it's about what has happened this season re Dow.

The coach made no bones about Dow at the beginning of the year when he stated (paraphrasing) that Paddy wasn't competing for any position in the seniors, he was competing for one. It seems that this led to him playing exclusively on the ball in the twos with no attempt whatsoever to add another string to his bow.

He obviously had 5 players ahead of him and given that he won our VFL B&F and finished 6th in the Liston Medal (only one player above him is on an AFL list) it seems, from a distance, that he upheld his side of the bargain. Yet we had 14 games with at least one of the big 5 out and he was selected twice. In fact we had 3 of them out for the last 2 matches and he still couldn't get a jumper. In the two games he did play he averaged about 65% of game time, sat on the bench for the first 16 minutes of the second, attended 9 centre bounces out of a possible 33 and had 3 centre clearances. In his first game against Collingwood he was a long way from our worst with 21 disp, 5 cc's, 5 tackles and 5 score assists at 76% DE. After that game the coach was quite disparaging of his performance...way to lift a player.

In short, if I were Paddy I would certainly be looking elsewhere if I actually wanted a career in the AFL and the only thing that would sway me toward staying is if I'd been promised a different development program in end of season interviews. If not I think he is selling himself short by staying as it's very difficult to see anything different next year with our 5 on ballers.

It's nice to want to stay with friends but it's better if you're actually playing with them and I'd be asking myself what the odds are of that if all things are equal next year.

I know none of this will be popular but I think he has been subjected to a very poor development year and the bar seems to have gotten higher for him than it has for others.

BTW in his first year he played 20 games on the ball in a team that finished 2 wins behind the second last team with a percentage of 59 and I thought he was going to be a gun, so I do have a little bias cause I hate being wrong.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I'm afraid I disagree that you'd want to stay and, if he were my son or brother, I'd definitely be advising him to explore his options.

During the debate about sacking Teague last year, one of primary criticisms on this board was that we had failed miserably in developing our young players and this very conveniently overlooked the fact that throughout his tenure there was no VFL which, oddly, is the development league. But this isn't about Teague, it's about what has happened this season re Dow.

The coach made no bones about Dow at the beginning of the year when he stated (paraphrasing) that Paddy wasn't competing for any position in the seniors, he was competing for one. It seems that this led to him playing exclusively on the ball in the twos with no attempt whatsoever to add another string to his bow.

He obviously had 5 players ahead of him and given that he won our VFL B&F and finished 6th in the Liston Medal (only one player above him is on an AFL list) it seems, from a distance, that he upheld his side of the bargain. Yet we had 14 games with at least one of the big 5 out and he was selected twice. In fact we had 3 of them out for the last 2 matches and he still couldn't get a jumper. In the two games he did play he averaged about 65% of game time, sat on the bench for the first 16 minutes of the second, attended 9 centre bounces out of a possible 33 and had 3 centre clearances. In his first game against Collingwood he was a long way from our worst with 21 disp, 5 cc's, 5 tackles and 5 score assists at 76% DE. After that game the coach was quite disparaging of his performance...way to lift a player.

In short, if I were Paddy I would certainly be looking elsewhere if I actually wanted a career in the AFL and the only thing that would sway me toward staying is if I'd been promised a different development program in end of season interviews. If not I think he is selling himself short by staying as it's very difficult to see anything different next year with our 5 on ballers.

It's nice to want to stay with friends but it's better if you're actually playing with them and I'd be asking myself what the odds are of that if all things are equal next year.

I know none of this will be popular but I think he has been subjected to a very poor development year and the bar seems to have gotten higher for him than it has for others.

BTW in his first year he played 20 games on the ball in a team that finished 2 wins behind the second last team with a percentage of 59 and I thought he was going to be a gun, so I do have a little bias cause I hate being wrong.

One general question. Is poor development always the clubs fault ?

Surely some onus is also on the player ?


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[goreds]

One general question. Is poor development always the clubs fault ?

Surely some onus is also on the player ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is always true…

I think Dow has an ability to play one position and he has flaws in that position. It’s not anyones fault that he was drafted so high in a very poor draft, it’s just that he was a stand out in a bad year for junior footballers.

 

[blue healer]

One general question. Is poor development always the clubs fault ?

Surely some onus is also on the player ?


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I'd think it's very hard to develop yourself if you are given a specific task all the time. But your point is good in that my main criticism of Dow is that he hasn't appeared to have improved his achilles heel of disposal and defence. But the question is that all on him?

If you're on the ball I would think most of your efforts are directed towards getting it unless your in a run with role. Maybe if a player was given this role for a while it might address that weakness?

 

[blue healer]

This is always true…

I think Dow has an ability to play one position and he has flaws in that position. It’s not anyones fault that he was drafted so high in a very poor draft, it’s just that he was a stand out in a bad year for junior footballers.

See this is where I disagree. I think very few players have the ability to only play one position and deserve a chance to show this. Liam Jones would have been lost to AFL before he was tried in the backline. Look at Dan Rioli and Leon Davis to name just two that have reinvented themselves by moving positions.

 

[Sheephead]

One general question. Is poor development always the clubs fault ?

Surely some onus is also on the player ?


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Stocker, Williamson and I’ll even go way back to Stephen Oliver. Some has to be on the player. Great opportunity to succeed awarded to you, do you take it. Sam Mitchell and the drug cheat were given late opportunity and starred. It’s not fully on the club, no way.

 

[Sheephead]

Can we get a Face Palm emoji added to the Like button. I deserve a heap for Howe, but there’s always plenty of posts worthy. Nothing says it quite like a good old open hand to the forehead.


Oh yeah, and a ‘You idiot’ one, just for Ferris. Jokingly of course. Love ya man. Keep ‘‘em coming.

 

[Magical_EddieBetts]

Jayden Hunt

5

Jayden Hunt

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.3

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

4star

MG

78.7

1star

D

5.3

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.0

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

3star

MG

78.7

1star

D

5.3

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

4star

MG

78.7

2star

has joined the Eagles. Random one didn’t expect that

 

[The Bighouse]

Jayden Hunt has joined the Eagles. Random one didn’t expect that

Looking at Q.Narkle as well.
Hunt more than replaces Naish who was delisted.

 

[Arr0w]

Hunt would have been good for us

 

[RoyalBlues]

Dow doesn't have faster reflexes, and his decision making and execution is poor

Multiple clubs being interested, isn't an indication of value

Especially his delivery

 

[RoyalBlues]

Hunt would have been good for us

True, but now we’re the hunted!

 

[SurreyBlue]

Especially his delivery

Dangerfield has made an art form of poor delivery but yet he is a superstar ......

 

[SurreyBlue]

True, but now we’re the hunted!

Agree but the boys showed in the last 2 games that they can be up for the fight being the ‘hunted’. They just needed to finish off their work. I think our best is just as good as anyone, we just need to believe and get the mindset right. One way or another, 2023 is going to be a bloody big year for our club.

 

[RoyalBlues]

Dangerfield has made an art form of poor delivery but yet he is a superstar ......

True, but he’s quick and solid too.

If Dow is to be compared with Dangerfield he’s a long way off.

 

[KnobHead]

One general question. Is poor development always the clubs fault ?

Surely some onus is also on the player ?


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Good question, think it’s a 2 way street.

Development team’s job is to put a great framework in place, and then the player’s job to work hard in that framework and get the best out of themselves.

But think if there’s no framework in place then often it won’t matter how hard the player works.

And there’s always exceptions as some players can excel in any environment.

At carlton, doubt we can say we’ve had great development. Obviously improving now.


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[SurreyBlue]

True, but he’s quick and solid too.

If Dow is to be compared with Dangerfield he’s a long way off.

No. Agree - was just highlighting his kicking. IMO, someone that butchers the ball like that, should not be held in such high regard. Yes, he is a bull winning the hard ball but....

 

[RoyalBlues]

No. Agree - was just highlighting his kicking. IMO, someone that butchers the ball like that, should not be held in such high regard. Yes, he is a bull winning the hard ball but....

Likeable fella, seems loyal and hard working. Would love him to stay and improve.

Agree that we shouldn’t trade for the sake of it

Setters is more likely to go and to Essendon (though he doesn’t deserve that!)

 

[FRUMPY]

I wonder if dow not wanting to go elsewhere is due to other clubs not willing to offer a contract extension if he was to be traded.

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[SurreyBlue]

Likeable fella, seems loyal and hard working. Would love him to stay and improve.

Agree that we shouldn’t trade for the sake of it

Setters is more likely to go and to Essendon (though he doesn’t deserve that!)

I will be filthy with the club if they let Setters go.
IMO - these secondary decent players are just as important, if not invaluable during the year.

 

[blue healer]

I wonder if dow not wanting to go elsewhere is due to other clubs not willing to offer a contract extension if he was to be traded.

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If that's the case he should ask himself if he thinks he can earn one by getting plenty of games at that club. If next season mirrors this from his perspective he has very little chance here.

 

[JustaBattler]

blue healer - everyone is entitled to favour particular players for particular reasons. I think Dow was just a drafting error at the place he was taken - a big error- along with SPS/LoB - not the player's fault that SOS and Co were just poor judges. They've all had opportunities to improve over the year(s). Setterfield isn't any better and I'm afraid Philp is heading in the same direction. Stocker for different reasons I'm guessing and he too is now gone.

I think young draftees should play VFL for 2-3 years, develop their bodies and skills and earn a place in firsts. A lot of the blokes above were recruited as teenagers and expected to play in their first year and perform - that was the other part of the problem of the total reset and rebuild - it wasn't managed realistically with player capability in mind.

The CLub is in a different place now- and I suspect that new recruits will be doing their time - unless forcing their way in. Teh list balance is much better and keeping it balanced for age is a huge priority now- so players will be asked to perform and show indications or be moved on - 2-3 years is plenty and 4-5 years is too many.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Dangerfield has made an art form of poor delivery but yet he is a superstar ......

Yes but Dangerfield is surrounded by 20+ players with great disposal. Carlton has the opposite model precluding it from premiership contention. It is ok to take Humphrey if Austin nails the next 4 picks with elite disposal

 

[blue healer]

blue healer - everyone is entitled to favour particular players for particular reasons. I think Dow was just a drafting error at the place he was taken - a big error- along with SPS/LoB - not the player's fault that SOS and Co were just poor judges. They've all had opportunities to improve over the year(s). Setterfield isn't any better and I'm afraid Philp is heading in the same direction. Stocker for different reasons I'm guessing and he too is now gone.

I think young draftees should play VFL for 2-3 years, develop their bodies and skills and earn a place in firsts. A lot of the blokes above were recruited as teenagers and expected to play in their first year and perform - that was the other part of the problem of the total reset and rebuild - it wasn't managed realistically with player capability in mind.

The CLub is in a different place now- and I suspect that new recruits will be doing their time - unless forcing their way in. Teh list balance is much better and keeping it balanced for age is a huge priority now- so players will be asked to perform and show indications or be moved on - 2-3 years is plenty and 4-5 years is too many.

I wouldn't say he was a drafting error as we were looking for engine room mids and there weren't many in that draft (if any) after him that were any better and I totally agree that he, along with LOB and SPS, would have been far better off had we given them 2-3 years in the VFL. As I said earlier he was thrown to the wolves in playing 20 games in his first season playing on the ball in a sh*t side. This continued until Bolton got the heave ho and Teague moved him into the forward line without senior experience in that position either.

Then, when we should have been trying to increase his overall versatility in the VFL there was no VFL for 2 years so any development we may have wished for him was impossible.

My concern is that right from the get-go this year we were shown that there were at least 5 mids in front of him but still persisted in only playing him in the midfield in the VFL and consistently overlooking him as a replacement when one or more of those were out. IMO that did not indicate to him that hard work would be rewarded and it's a credit to him that he didn't chuck it in. LOB and Setterfield are example to me of allowing them what we denied Dow this season. IMO neither are great players but neither can say they weren't given a chance.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he was a favourite of mine but he did look an exciting prospect in his first season ( I don't think he was called Paddy Wow just because it rhymed) but we failed to give him the chance to develop then and I think we also failed to do it this year when we finally got the opportunity.

I don't know if he will make it but I think he deserves a better crack at it than he's had.

 

[passmark]

What the **** is going on?
In the good old days we could expect 10 new rumours after the B&F .
This year, not a dickie bird !!!