Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[BartSimpson]

I don’t trust Plowman running around in a Home & Away game, let along a ‘crunch moment’ we need him to execute a spoil or take an intercept mark.

Been a good servant for the club, we haven’t had many other consistent contributors, but it’s time to move on from him.

Generally speaking Plow’s role is playing on dangerous small forwards - hence why even at his height he hasn’t/doesn’t fill the stats sheets with spoils and intercepts. That said, stats for 22 show he rated above average for spoils and intercept possessions, and elite in contested possession rate and 1:1’s. I guess whipping boys will always have mistakes magnified to the extent that judgments are made with the negative goggles on, rather than with a holistic view.

 

[La Dispute]

Generally speaking Plow’s role is playing on dangerous small forwards - hence why even at his height he hasn’t/doesn’t fill the stats sheets with spoils and intercepts. That said, stats for 22 show he rated above average for spoils and intercept possessions, and elite in contested possession rate and 1:1’s. I guess whipping boys will always have mistakes magnified to the extent that judgments are made with the negative goggles on, rather than with a holistic view.

Where are these elite stats coming from?

I don’t have any negative agenda with Plow. He’s been solid for us, but he’s not good enough either as a mis-sized defender or a third tall - which we have a bevy of - to continue getting games.

If we are playing him as as effectively the 4th tall, which yes brings him in the frame to take a smaller opponent, then he has to be a much more effective at rebounding and providing drive from the back half.

12 touches a game, which are predominantly safe, conservative options isn’t cutting it.

Plow is as much a sacred cow as he is a whipping boy on this board. He gets a very good run generally.

 

[katmanblue]

Generally speaking Plow’s role is playing on dangerous small forwards - hence why even at his height he hasn’t/doesn’t fill the stats sheets with spoils and intercepts. That said, stats for 22 show he rated above average for spoils and intercept possessions, and elite in contested possession rate and 1:1’s. I guess whipping boys will always have mistakes magnified to the extent that judgments are made with the negative goggles on, rather than with a holistic view.

Can do a thousand things right, but that's just expected. Does one (or three) thing(s) wrong in a game and everyone loses their mind.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wickzki]

Ross's mantra in the past, has been very clear. Wants all his players to be able to run hard both ways and always with a narrow scope of deviation from a gameplan and tactics

A little surprised that Stocker will be training with the Saints, but I do hope he gets on a list again

With the obvious SOS and Ross connection I'm least surprised about this development. Dodo almost got Essendon to go for it because of SOS but the MH hurdle was a no go with others in the club.

 

[bradfisher14]

 

[FanofFev]

Been in a good paddock by the looks of that

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

He's going to go full Jarman isn't he.

 

[BartSimpson]

Where are these elite stats coming from?

I don’t have any negative agenda with Plow. He’s been solid for us, but he’s not good enough either as a mis-sized defender or a third tall - which we have a bevy of - to continue getting games.

If we are playing him as as effectively the 4th tall, which yes brings him in the frame to take a smaller opponent, then he has to be a much more effective at rebounding and providing drive from the back half.

12 touches a game, which are predominantly safe, conservative options isn’t cutting it.

Plow is as much a sacred cow as he is a whipping boy on this board. He gets a very good run generally.

Stats are direct off the AFL website, so Champion Data stats. His role, in general, is as a lockdown small defender. It’s not necessarily his job to be a high possession winner, so in my opinion that’s not high on my agenda as a measurement of success. Yes at times he has to play 4th, 3rd or even 2nd tall. And I acknowledge that’s not a strong point of his when circumstances dictate that’s the roll he has to play. But as a general lockdown player he does an admiral job, but more rather than less (I’m not saying you specifically) pounce on any error like it’s one that no other AFL player has ever made. Does he make some shockers, yes, but who doesn’t! Just my opinion, and I welcome all others, that his good by far outweighs his bad when looking at things with a wide lense.

 

[La Dispute]

Stats are direct off the AFL website, so Champion Data stats. His role, in general, is as a lockdown small defender. It’s not necessarily his job to be a high possession winner, so in my opinion that’s not high on my agenda as a measurement of success. Yes at times he has to play 4th, 3rd or even 2nd tall. And I acknowledge that’s not a strong point of his when circumstances dictate that’s the roll he has to play. But as a general lockdown player he does an admiral job, but more rather than less (I’m not saying you specifically) pounce on any error like it’s one that no other AFL player has ever made. Does he make some shockers, yes, but who doesn’t! Just my opinion, and I welcome all others, that his good by far outweighs his bad when looking at things with a wide lense.

Do you have a link? I’m seeing a series of stats indicating average or below average, but it doesn’t show the stats you are referring to.

If he is going to be playing as the 4th defender then yes he does need to be far more reliable offensively, both in terms of his possession count and in his metres gained. He is currently tracking at a paltry 136 metres gained - he’s moving the ball 12 metres each time he gets it.

I don’t really care for his errors. That’s never been something I particularly focus on when it comes to Plowman - I don’t have a high opinion of him as a player, can acknowledge his athletic deficiencies and expect him to make mistakes along the way.

Doing an ‘admiral job’ just isn’t going to cut it if we’re going to improve as a side. Like Newnes, he’s been a good supporting player to have while we’ve been churning over the list - we know he’s going to give effort and have games he’s up to par - but he’s very replaceable.

If he wasn’t contracted I suspect would have been delisted - just as Newnes was - after playing the majority of the season.

 

[TerryWallet]

With the obvious SOS and Ross connection I'm least surprised about this development. Dodo almost got Essendon to go for it because of SOS but the MH hurdle was a no go with others in the club.

Yep. So incredibly predictable that SOS's mates Dodoro and Lyon have given Setterfield and Stocker further chances. The arrogance of SOS, Ross and Marlon Brando(lol) in believing they are always right has been glaring for years. They drink each others bathwater.

 

[RPCB]

I guess we aren’t drafting Jedd Burgenhausen.

 

[Wickzki]

I guess we aren’t drafting Jedd Burgenhausen.

It's a part time job of about 10-15 hours a week.

He could pull a Billy Slater

 

[RPCB]

It's a part time job of about 10-15 hours a week.

He could pull a Billy Slater

Not many people would take on 2 coaching roles at different clubs. Clubs train on specific days, not around the coaches schedule. That’s just my view anyway,

 

[Wickzki]

Not many people would take on 2 coaching roles at different clubs. Clubs train on specific days, not around the coaches schedule. That’s just my view anyway,

Billy Slater coached St Kilda and had a lot to do with the Storm and in the media at the same time.

Joel isn't going to be a skills coach at the Storm. It's a glorified mentor/leader role with the Storm's leadership group and can be taken independent of skill and fitness based training. Hence the comparison to Billy.

 

[BartSimpson]

Do you have a link? I’m seeing a series of stats indicating average or below average, but it doesn’t show the stats you are referring to.

If he is going to be playing as the 4th defender then yes he does need to be far more reliable offensively, both in terms of his possession count and in his metres gained. He is currently tracking at a paltry 136 metres gained - he’s moving the ball 12 metres each time he gets it.

I don’t really care for his errors. That’s never been something I particularly focus on when it comes to Plowman - I don’t have a high opinion of him as a player, can acknowledge his athletic deficiencies and expect him to make mistakes along the way.

Doing an ‘admiral job’ just isn’t going to cut it if we’re going to improve as a side. Like Newnes, he’s been a good supporting player to have while we’ve been churning over the list - we know he’s going to give effort and have games he’s up to par - but he’s very replaceable.

If he wasn’t contracted I suspect would have been delisted - just as Newnes was - after playing the majority of the season.

Not sure how to do a link sorry, I just went to AFL app, clicked on stats, put Plow in the search and they came up. As I said, I don’t see his role as being offensive, we’ve got others to do that, his primary objective is as a stopper. Anyway, different opinions are what it’s all about.

 

[La Dispute]

Not sure how to do a link sorry, I just went to AFL app, clicked on stats, put Plow in the search and they came up. As I said, I don’t see his role as being offensive, we’ve got others to do that, his primary objective is as a stopper. Anyway, different opinions are what it’s all about.

Plowman currently sits (amongst teammates) -

8th for one percenters per game
7th for intercept possessions per game
22nd for marks per game
16th for contested marks per game
9th for intercept marks per game
25th for tackles per game
30th for pressure acts per game
14th for defensive half pressure acts per game
9th for spoils per game
54% contested defensive win rate, behind Lachie O’Brien and Will Setterfield

Unless you can find some tangible evidence to the contrary he isn’t elite in a single area and lags behind most defensive statistical categories by a long way.

So he’s a actual fairly poor defensively, doesn’t get a lot of the ball, pressure acts are surprisingly low, not great at spoiling, not great at taking intercept marks - all basic requirements of his role.

You’ve said he’s ‘elite’ in contested possession rate, yet he’s ranked 19th at the club.

Does that make any sense to you?

Think you’ve been over egging the pudding.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Plowman currently sits (amongst teammates) -

8th for one percenters per game
7th for intercept possessions per game
22nd for marks per game
16th for contested marks per game
9th for intercept marks per game
25th for tackles per game
30th for pressure acts per game
14th for defensive half pressure acts per game
9th for spoils per game
54% contested defensive win rate, behind Lachie O’Brien and Will Setterfield

Unless you can find some tangible evidence to the contrary he isn’t elite in a single area and lags behind most defensive statistical categories by a long way.

So he’s a actual fairly poor defensively, doesn’t get a lot of the ball, pressure acts are surprisingly low, not great at spoiling, not great at taking intercept marks - all basic requirements of his role.

You’ve said he’s ‘elite’ in contested possession rate, yet he’s ranked 19th at the club.

Does that make any sense to you?

Think you’ve been over egging the pudding.

Ranked elite or above average for spoils and contested defensive one one ones won.

Not pictured above, but also ranks elite in one percenters per game.

 

[BartSimpson]

Plowman currently sits (amongst teammates) -

8th for one percenters per game
7th for intercept possessions per game
22nd for marks per game
16th for contested marks per game
9th for intercept marks per game
25th for tackles per game
30th for pressure acts per game
14th for defensive half pressure acts per game
9th for spoils per game
54% contested defensive win rate, behind Lachie O’Brien and Will Setterfield

Unless you can find some tangible evidence to the contrary he isn’t elite in a single area and lags behind most defensive statistical categories by a long way.

So he’s a actual fairly poor defensively, doesn’t get a lot of the ball, pressure acts are surprisingly low, not great at spoiling, not great at taking intercept marks - all basic requirements of his role.

You’ve said he’s ‘elite’ in contested possession rate, yet he’s ranked 19th at the club.

Does that make any sense to you?

Think you’ve been over egging the pudding.

Nah, I haven’t said he’s elite in particular areas. Champion Data have. 2022 stats. In the AFL app. You’ve mentioned a lot of stats that again, in my opinion, aren’t relevant to his primary role. His primary role is to shut down dangerous small forwards. And most of the time he does that well. And it’s something I rate highly. Would you rather him get 30, take 10 intercept marks, have 600m gained, and have 5 kicked on him each week?

 

[thylacine60]

do these stat goons have their tables at the game with them so they know who to cheer and who to boo? tragic..........

 

[La Dispute]

View attachment 1556239

Ranked elite or above average for spoils and contested defensive one one ones won.

Not pictured above, but also ranks elite in one percenters per game.

By who?

He’s ranked 8th at the club for one percenters per game.

He’s ranked 9th at the club for spoils per game.

Wins 56% of contested defensive one one on ones.

Compare that to the best 10 in the league:

May - 95%
Jonas - 91%
Taylor - 89%
McCartin - 88%
N. Murray - 88%
Maynard - 87%
Lever - 85%
Gibcus - 83%
Moore - 82%
J. Walker - 81%

Does 56% look comparably good?

 

[La Dispute]

Nah, I haven’t said he’s elite in particular areas. Champion Data have. 2022 stats. In the AFL app. You’ve mentioned a lot of stats that again, in my opinion, aren’t relevant to his primary role. His primary role is to shut down dangerous small forwards. And most of the time he does that well. And it’s something I rate highly. Would you rather him get 30, take 10 intercept marks, have 600m gained, and have 5 kicked on him each week?
View attachment 1556243

Which stats have I listed that aren’t relevant to his role?

Think you’re taking some confused CD analyst’s opinion far too literally - look at how he compares to the rest of the side and that gives you a pretty good indication of where he’s at.

If you lose a higher percentage of defensive contests than O’Brien or Newnes there’s a very good chance you’re not an elite one-on-one defender.

 

[BartSimpson]

By who?

He’s ranked 8th at the club for one percenters per game.

He’s ranked 9th at the club for spoils per game.

Wins 56% of contested defensive one one on ones.

Compare that to the best 10 in the league:

May - 95%
Jonas - 91%
Taylor - 89%
McCartin - 88%
N. Murray - 88%
Maynard - 87%
Lever - 85%
Gibcus - 83%
Moore - 82%
J. Walker - 81%

Does 56% look comparably good?

For the third time…. by Champion Data. Interesting that the top 10 are dominated by key defenders, not small lockdown defenders.

 

[La Dispute]

For the third time…. by Champion Data. Interesting that the top 10 are dominated by key defenders, not small lockdown defenders.

I’m asking who specifically is ranking the player as elite?

The data is stating otherwise.

If you’re sitting 8th or 9th within the club, let alone across the league, you can’t be considered elite in that area.

 

[BartSimpson]

do these stat goons have their tables at the game with them so they know who to cheer and who to boo? tragic..........

Which stats have I listed that aren’t relevant to his role?

Think you’re taking some confused CD analyst’s opinion far too literally - look at how he compares to the rest of the side and that gives you a pretty good indication of where he’s at.

If you lose a higher percentage of defensive contests than O’Brien or Newnes there’s a very good chance you’re not an elite one-on-one defender.

Which stats have I listed that aren’t relevant to his role?

Think you’re taking some confused CD analyst’s opinion far too literally - look at how he compares to the rest of the side and that gives you a pretty good indication of where he’s at.

If you lose a higher percentage of defensive contests than O’Brien or Newnes there’s a very good chance you’re not an elite one-on-one defender.

So your stats are gospel, but CD’s are from a confused analyst?

 

[La Dispute]

So your stats are gospel, but CD’s are from a confused analyst?

Do you consider being 8th or 9th ranked at a club to be at the elite level? My interpretation has always been if you’re considered elite you’re in the top bracket league-wide.

If you’re not - at least - in the top couple of players at your own club in that area you can’t be considered elite.

You can continue deferring back to CD as the authority, but these are some incredibly arbitrary rankings that don’t accurately reflect the reality.