Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[BartSimpson]

I’m asking who specifically is ranking the player as elite?

The data is stating otherwise.

If you’re sitting 8th or 9th within the club, let alone across the league, you can’t be considered elite in that

Do you consider being 8th or 9th ranked at a club to be at the elite level? My interpretation has always been if you’re considered elite you’re in the top bracket league-wide.

If you’re not - at least - in the top couple of players at your own club in that area you can’t be considered elite.

You can continue deferring back to CD as the authority, but these are some incredibly arbitrary rankings that don’t accurately reflect the reality.

CD rankings (elite, above average etc) are rating players based off stats for all players in the league. Elite is classified as in the top 10% of the league. If, as you say, he’s 8th-9th at the club, it means we have 8-9 elite players in that particular statistic. Assuming your stats are from a credible source of course. I’m happy to defer to the CD stats myself.

I CBF’d going around in circles on this any more. My opinion is clear, I rate his ability to more often than not shut down small forwards first and foremost, and if he gets a few kicks and metres gained and intercept marks and what not along the way, that’s a bonus - so long as it’s not at the expense of having multiple goals kicked against him.
Enjoy the rest of your night!

 

[FRUMPY]

Haven't been here for a while......argument about champion data stats......see you next year

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wickzki]

My two cents on Plow and CD

Plowman - amazing clubman, punches above his talent level more often than not, terrific foot soldier who has been called upon to perform above his ability ceiling for most of his career at the club, frustrating errors at inopportune times, admired by those closest at the club and criticised by everyone else at times (myself included), will slide down the totem pole at the club when we have health but continue to provide valuable depth. Ultimately, one who the club will do well to give a nod to when the current group lift 17 but who will highly unlikely play on the day.

---

Think Champion Data is a pile of wank. There's a statistic for every argument if you go looking for it. My problem with CD is that stats alone lack the context to be worth very much. It doesn't tell you who players are beating in, who is beating them, the important situation context (did he win a one on one when the oppo forward have a laces out pass or was it a contest that screwed the forward, etc.)

Acceptable to use them in isolation but, for example, the annual list of who is and who isn't elite always contains players who clearly are not and omits others who I'd rank as highly as the AA team because their stat weightings are slanted to suit certain types of players at various positions and crucifies others who don't fit the mould regardless of actual ability.

 

[La Dispute]

CD rankings (elite, above average etc) are rating players based off stats for all players in the league. Elite is classified as in the top 10% of the league. If, as you say, he’s 8th-9th at the club, it means we have 8-9 elite players in that particular statistic. Assuming your stats are from a credible source of course. I’m happy to defer to the CD stats myself.

I CBF’d going around in circles on this any more. My opinion is clear, I rate his ability to more often than not shut down small forwards first and foremost, and if he gets a few kicks and metres gained and intercept marks and what not along the way, that’s a bonus - so long as it’s not at the expense of having multiple goals kicked against him.
Enjoy the rest of your night!

I’m using the same stats you are - that’s what makes your assessment and continual deference to some faceless analysts opinion so bizare.

We don’t have 8-9 players who elite at winning defensive contests, or you would also classify O’Brien, Setterfield and Newnes as elite in this area.

For further reference, in terms of mid-sized or small defenders; Dan Houston wins 81% of contests, Starcevich wins 81%, Rampe wins 79%, Sicily wins 76%, Burton wins 67%, Laverde wins 64%…

This is the same faculty that rated Jack Scrimshaw, Lincoln McCarthy, Sam Switkowski, Dylan Moore, Jeremy Findlayson, Sam Menegola and Tom Hickey as elite players.

Their opinion means very little in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Red Bull]

Here’s what stats are best used for …



Use your eyes and trust your judgment …

 

[Robertio]

Here’s what stats are best used for …

View attachment 1556363

Use your eyes and trust your judgment …

Need something to wipe mate

 

[AndyLucimitis]

With the obvious SOS and Ross connection I'm least surprised about this development. Dodo almost got Essendon to go for it because of SOS but the MH hurdle was a no go with others in the club.

What’s ‘MH’ ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ferrisb]

Mental health?

 

[GT619]

With the obvious SOS and Ross connection I'm least surprised about this development. Dodo almost got Essendon to go for it because of SOS but the MH hurdle was a no go with others in the club.

 

[Jimmae]

View attachment 1556239

Ranked elite or above average for spoils and contested defensive one one ones won.

Not pictured above, but also ranks elite in one percenters per game.

Nah, I haven’t said he’s elite in particular areas. Champion Data have. 2022 stats. In the AFL app. You’ve mentioned a lot of stats that again, in my opinion, aren’t relevant to his primary role. His primary role is to shut down dangerous small forwards. And most of the time he does that well. And it’s something I rate highly. Would you rather him get 30, take 10 intercept marks, have 600m gained, and have 5 kicked on him each week?
View attachment 1556243

By who?

He’s ranked 8th at the club for one percenters per game.

He’s ranked 9th at the club for spoils per game.

Wins 56% of contested defensive one one on ones.

Compare that to the best 10 in the league:

May - 95%
Jonas - 91%
Taylor - 89%
McCartin - 88%
N. Murray - 88%
Maynard - 87%
Lever - 85%
Gibcus - 83%
Moore - 82%
J. Walker - 81%

Does 56% look comparably good?

CDOOO just means the number of contested defensive one-on-ones they've been involved in. Dispute is 100% right here: he has rarely had a good number of wins for that.

There's two key sides to this: statistically it's been a weakness of his throughout his career, and you can see that with him never getting above 60% save for one season. The other side is that he's historically been used as either a small defender or a general defender on highly athletic forwards.

Plowman was drafted high on the back of athletic output, versatility and character, but his attacking output was always workman-like. As the game evolved and he couldn't rely on work rate alone to generate possession, he's been relegated to a very average general defender. His intercept game is solid though, but at our club he's just not going to get a look in for those kinds of responsibilties unless it's a very strongly zone-oriented defence.

He should have been traded this year to somewhere that requires his full skillset, and was happy to develop his rebound ability and tidy up his disposal by foot. We have so much cover for his role now it's not even funny.

 

[TENACIOUS]

I don’t trust Plowman running around in a Home & Away game, let along a ‘crunch moment’ we need him to execute a spoil or take an intercept mark.

Been a good servant for the club, we haven’t had many other consistent contributors, but it’s time to move on from him.

I’m no Plowman fan, however…

Plowman is the perfect depth type player…

Cost’s bugger all, is happy to wait his time for an opportunity and has proven afl level ability…

Wouldn’t be surprised at all if he gets an extension next year…

 

[Juice030103]

If stats were the be all end all everyone would think Macrae is a top 5 player in the comp

 

[SurreyBlue]

Plowman is our ‘only true’ defensive shutdown small to mid sized defender.

 

[mrkyuss]

Plowman is our ‘only true’ defensive shutdown small to mid sized defender.

But he can’t shut down anyone.

 

[BlueJet]

But he can’t shut down anyone.

That's not right.

 

[Blue By Blood]

But he can’t shut down anyone.

I’ve said it before but his main issue is that he lacks agility. He’s kind of a tweener height so at his height he really needs to be more mobile and athletic to be effective. He’s too tall to play a shutdown on the smalls, they destroy him on the lead and at ground level. He’s also not tall enough to play on the genuine talls. He’s an awkward player. His tackles seem to get broken an awful lot too. In his defence he’s been asked to play on guys he’s just not suited to manning time and time again but that’s because there’s usually no suitable option for him. Newman or Boyd surely are more effective and better suited to playing a lockdown role.

He’s been a good servant of the club but it’s high time we move past him as a best 22. More to the point, it’s high time we stay injury free and have guys putting their hands up to move well past him in the pecking order.

 

[The Bighouse]

But he can’t shut down anyone.

Pretty good contests with Papley. C.Cameron. R.Gray
Doesn’t shine vs Collingwood

 

[BigFrizz36]

Report in today's Australian that clubs are looking to sign players to their VFL lists whilst dangling the carrot of a potential SSP or mid season draft spot.

Goes on to say that Ben Ronke

25

Ben Ronke

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.7

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.2

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

5.2

5star

G

2.4

5star

and Callum Brown gave both been linked to carltons VFL side

 

[thylacine60]

The Australian? That still a thing?

 

[BigFrizz36]

The Australian? That still a thing?

Yeah, rubbish paper but Saturday issue is o.k. with a good review, travel and weekend magazine.

My only contribution to the evil Murdoch empire.

 

[The Bighouse]

Report in today's Australian that clubs are looking to sign players to their VFL lists whilst dangling the carrot of a potential SSP or mid season draft spot.

Goes on to say that Ben Ronke and Callum Brown gave both been linked to carltons VFL side

That should be the norm, and we’ve done that ourselves with Mirkov & Hayes + others would have been looked at.
Box Hill have developed quite the nursery for promotion to the AFL.

 

[Jimmae]

Plowman is our ‘only true’ defensive shutdown small to mid sized defender.

Saad is great at this, elite really, all while rebounding too. Then you've got Marchbank if you need more aerial presence. And then you've got Newman who has a knack for winning contested 1v1s.

That's not right.

We just went through statistics that show this...

 

[mrkyuss]

I think he lacks competitiveness. But agree no point arguing about traits that not everyone seems to be able to identify.

 

[Lace_Out]

Report in today's Australian that clubs are looking to sign players to their VFL lists whilst dangling the carrot of a potential SSP or mid season draft spot.

Goes on to say that Ben Ronke

25

Ben Ronke

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.7

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.2

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

5.2

5star

G

2.4

5star

and Callum Brown gave both been linked to carltons VFL side

Wouldn't hurt to give Brown a run.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

 

[SurreyBlue]

Saad is great at this, elite really, all while rebounding too. Then you've got Marchbank if you need more aerial presence. And then you've got Newman who has a knack for winning contested 1v1s.

We just went through statistics that show this...

Newman is the other!! Very underrated but that’s it for opposition shutdown small forwards.
Marchy doesn’t play small.