Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[thylacine60]

locked again..........?

 

[Magruder]

locked again..........?

Consigned to the….

 

[Earls Smother]

need placating regarding the concept of bringing in depth players - don't we create our own as better players at the top push lesser players into the depth zone?

also

Analysis - The D Word

Some posters have been ringing the changes - White out, Byrne in, Buckley out, Daisy in. How will we know when we have enough depth? Or do you ever reach that stage of being able to cover your losses? It does feel good to have options (thanks largely to a shortish injury list) when you consider...

www.bigfooty.com

In an ideal world yes, but we are only likely to have Acres who will definitely push someone out. We need to jump 8 ladder spots, not 2 or 3.

A senior body who could have stepped in for rounds 22 and 23 would have been invaluable. Midfield was down on personnel and we lost running players from the backline. We were forced to play Stocker, who proved he wasn't up to it. One more depth player could have meant finals.

We have had some pretty average players play in premierships after hardly playing all year. Scott Howell, Mario Bortolotto and Warren McKenzie spring to mind. Even in '95 Matt Hogg only played 5 games but was there on the day.

Bortolotto in particular, was brought in from another club just to be depth. Had to step in for the unfortunate Southby twice.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Yeah but check their trajectory since 2017. And now he can’t hold a spot in Mitchell’s rebuild? No thanks.

Not saying we should get him, but the whole "can't get a game with such and such" argument is a bit simplistic.
Lewis Young couldn't get a game at the Dogs (they've just recruited Liam Jones...). He just led the league in average spoils and 1%ers.
Will Brodie couldn't get a game at Gold Coast. He just had a career best year and played 24 games in a side who made finals.
I'm sure there are more examples too.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Yep. Bloke is no good.

Maybe some are putting too much faith in a poster from the Hawks board. There are plenty on there who think that they have a genuinely good list which is clearly not the case.

Also possible that we have a cleaning job at the new facility that he applied for.

Could also be there for the seconds, why does it have to be for a primary list spot?


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[katmanblue]

locked again..........?

Probably need to get the Lock-picking Lawyer on the case.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bletch]

Could also be there for the seconds, why does it have to be for a primary list spot?


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This seems more probable. Offer a VFL spot, with a chance of SSP/MSD in case of an LTI.

 

[Aphrodite]

locked again..........?

 

[Earls Smother]

Could also be there for the seconds, why does it have to be for a primary list spot?


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It could, but it does coincide with opening up an extra primary list spot with the Ed decision.

Do we suddenly like a kid with a pick in the 60's?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

We were forced to play Stocker, who proved he wasn't up to it. One more depth player could have meant finals.

We've got enough depth players on the list now, we could do better than give Howe a precious spot.
I seem to remember the vast majority of BF posters totally adoring Stocker until about 1 week after he was delisted,
then "nah he's sh1t 'ey".

 

[Jeremias]

Re: Howe

Not sure I'd be putting any credence into what that particular poster has to say.

If we did speak with him, I would think it relates to a possible role at VFL level.

 

[Earls Smother]

We've got enough depth players on the list now, we could do better than give Howe a precious spot.
I seem to remember the vast majority of BF posters totally adoring Stocker until about 1 week after he was delisted,
then "nah he's sh1t 'ey".

Even the club are hindsight experts in this case. That's what they do after each game and season.

They give players a chance, assess performance, and make decisions accordingly. We needed a better runner given what we had out. Clubs always react to the most recent loss (not saying they should), you see it all the time with beaten finalists.

I'm not saying we should pick him, but maybe the club feels 4 kids is enough (think we have 5 spots?) and will consider him if there is nothing we like at the relevant pick?

I don't know what has changed that has led to the Ed decision. If it was an obvious decision, why didn't we transparently make it weeks ago?

 

[Earls Smother]

Re: Howe

Not sure I'd be putting any credence into what that particular poster has to say.

If we did speak with him, I would think it relates to a possible role at VFL level.

The guy is 26 and had 24 possessions in the last round versus the Dogs. He is not accepting a VFL position unless it is a last resort. Would be highly unlikely to discuss that until other avenues were exhausted.

 

[Stamos]

I'm not saying we should pick him, but maybe the club feels 4 kids is enough (think we have 5 spots?) and will consider him if there is nothing we like at the relevant pick?

I don't know what has changed that has led to the Ed decision. If it was an obvious decision, why didn't we transparently make it weeks ago?

Ed is the 5th spot, we've only got 4 other picks.
But very strange that the club (and no media that I've seen, prior to him appearing on the draft list) didn't announce it.

 

[Jeremias]

The guy is 26 and had 24 possessions in the last round versus the Dogs. He is not accepting a VFL position unless it is a last resort. Would be highly unlikely to discuss that until other avenues were exhausted.

I would think those discussions can go on concurrently.

The guy is 26 and had 24 possessions in the last round versus the Dogs...but isn't on an AFL club. I reckon if he's keen to give it another crack, he'll meet with any club willing to meet with him.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Who’s Howe????

 

[BlueTongue]

I certainly wasn't saying "get him".

Hawks have got rid of Mitchell, Gunston and O'Meara too. Are they all s**t?

Even if we did, he wouldn't play in our best side. Would be midfield depth but could potentially be used on blokes like Neale, Petracca, Mills etc. in big finals if we wanted someone to do that job.

O'Meara was part of a trade to get Meek to Hawthorn as they badly needed a ruckman to replace McEvoy, and O'Meara was happy to go back and finish his career in his home state. Gunston is 30, as is Mitchell, and both were part of a process to rebuild ASAP.

Howe is 27, arguably in his Prime, and in most circumstances would normally be retained as a harder body to play his role and also protect the young incoming players, yet he's delisted without a destination club or trade. Much like we did with Stocker.

I'm of the opinion that we need to start replacing our best 22 with players better than we have. Recruiting for 'depth' when the incoming player is no better than someone in our starting 22 is simply recruiting dead wood. We should be aiming to improve our list with every selection, and the player that is forced out of the best 22 becomes depth, who is then forced to battle hard to break back in, rather than a sub-par player languishing in the two's until enough players are injured that they get a recall by default.

 

[Stamos]

I'm of the opinion that we need to start replacing our best 22 with players better than we have. Recruiting for 'depth' when the incoming player is no better than someone in our starting 22 is simply recruiting dead wood. We should be aiming to improve our list with every selection, and the player that is forced out of the best 22 becomes depth, who is then forced to battle hard to break back in, rather than a sub-par player languishing in the two's until enough players are injured that they get a recall by default.

Further to this, although our list is young overall, it is slightly unbalanced with few 2nd and 3rd year players, due to only using 3 ND picks in the past 2 years. We need more draftees to balance our profile, not 27 year olds (especially as depth).

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

O'Meara was part of a trade to get Meek to Hawthorn as they badly needed a ruckman to replace McEvoy, and O'Meara was happy to go back and finish his career in his home state. Gunston is 30, as is Mitchell, and both were part of a process to rebuild ASAP.

Howe is 27, arguably in his Prime, and in most circumstances would normally be retained as a harder body to play his role and also protect the young incoming players, yet he's delisted without a destination club or trade. Much like we did with Stocker.

I'm of the opinion that we need to start replacing our best 22 with players better than we have. Recruiting for 'depth' when the incoming player is no better than someone in our starting 22 is simply recruiting dead wood. We should be aiming to improve our list with every selection, and the player that is forced out of the best 22 becomes depth, who is then forced to battle hard to break back in, rather than a sub-par player languishing in the two's until enough players are injured that they get a recall by default.

We don't really know who our best 22 are given the likely organic growth in many as they hit the 75-100 game mark....

You'd think certain best 22 are (from the FB line forward) - Weiters, Young (probably), Doc, Saad, Williams, McGuv, Marchy, Acres, Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett, Cerra, Walsh, Martin, JSOS, Charlie, Harry.

That's 17 so far.

Hard to upgrade any of them tbh.

The rucks? Pitto or TDK or both? Both = 19 so far.

Both will improve organically with game time....

Small forwards (2) - Durdin & Motlop? That's 21 so far (Honey, Owies both serviceable)

Both Mots and Durds have huge upside imo. Just need to be patient (and get Eddie as their coach, maybe Mots' Dad as a cameo?)

Another genuine winger - LOB or Cotters ...both were retained. (or even Philp). That's the 22.

Will LOB make it? I know Pommy rates him highly based on 'the numbers'....me, far from convinced.

Other potential interchange players - Newman, Kemp, Dow?

Newman and Kemp - pretty solid 20-25 types.

Pretty clear the core is very much in place - can't see upgrades (by trade) in the ruck or SF area.

Of course, there are always injuries...

And I forgot Jack Carroll - reckon he'll have a breakout year in '23.

 

[agro]

Who’s Howe????

 

[La Dispute]

O'Meara was part of a trade to get Meek to Hawthorn as they badly needed a ruckman to replace McEvoy, and O'Meara was happy to go back and finish his career in his home state. Gunston is 30, as is Mitchell, and both were part of a process to rebuild ASAP.

Howe is 27, arguably in his Prime, and in most circumstances would normally be retained as a harder body to play his role and also protect the young incoming players, yet he's delisted without a destination club or trade. Much like we did with Stocker.

I'm of the opinion that we need to start replacing our best 22 with players better than we have. Recruiting for 'depth' when the incoming player is no better than someone in our starting 22 is simply recruiting dead wood. We should be aiming to improve our list with every selection, and the player that is forced out of the best 22 becomes depth, who is then forced to battle hard to break back in, rather than a sub-par player languishing in the two's until enough players are injured that they get a recall by default.

There’s nothing wrong with our best set of inside mids.

Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett, Walsh and Cerra (if played there) can all play to a high standard, but it drops away dramatically after that.

Setterfield was next in line, he’s now gone.

Dow isn’t very good and can’t provide the kind of defensive pressure that’s expected of a player in his position.

So if we lose a couple of players in there all of a sudden we’re pretty light on for personnel, which was the reason Setterfield and Dow were getting games toward the end of last season.

I’d say Howe and Setterfield are roughly on the same level. Setterfield is probably more naturally talented and his ceiling is slightly higher, but Howe is better defensively and slightly more versatile.

I think we’re in a position we can add depth players in potential areas of need. Even Melbourne went after Dunstan at the end of last year despite having a really strong inside midfield group. He played a couple of games, but it’s handy having another senior body ready to go if any of the first choice group break down.

Howe doesn’t have to be on the list long term either. We don’t many young inside mids developing. Carroll and potentially Kemp might be it, so we can always add a player like Howe temporarily while we look towards the draft to add another mid and/or Carroll or Kemp come on and play that role. The club won’t prioritise Howe if Carroll is ready to go.

The Townsend to Richmond is a good example. Came in, hardly played, but impacted at the right time. He was then off the list a few years later.

We’re in a better position than before for role players to come in and get the most out of themselves. Think we’re all still mentally scarred from watching 10-15 discards come and go without a lot of success, but the squad is now stronger and we can afford to fill temporary gaps with proven role players.

I’m not a major proponent of Howe, but I understand the thinking if we decide to bring him in on a baseline contract.

 

[Earls Smother]

O'Meara was part of a trade to get Meek to Hawthorn as they badly needed a ruckman to replace McEvoy, and O'Meara was happy to go back and finish his career in his home state. Gunston is 30, as is Mitchell, and both were part of a process to rebuild ASAP.

Howe is 27, arguably in his Prime, and in most circumstances would normally be retained as a harder body to play his role and also protect the young incoming players, yet he's delisted without a destination club or trade. Much like we did with Stocker.

I'm of the opinion that we need to start replacing our best 22 with players better than we have. Recruiting for 'depth' when the incoming player is no better than someone in our starting 22 is simply recruiting dead wood. We should be aiming to improve our list with every selection, and the player that is forced out of the best 22 becomes depth, who is then forced to battle hard to break back in, rather than a sub-par player languishing in the two's until enough players are injured that they get a recall by default.

I don't actually disagree with what you are saying. Feel like I'm just playing Devil's advocate now to offer the alternative viewpoint.

Mitchell wants to free up spots to play the kids. They are rebuilding. Howe would likely be a better alternative than the kids initially, but what is the point if they don't see him as part of the next flag? Clubs are always at varying stages of the cycle.

We pushed out some blokes for no return because Malthouse was an idiot. Robinson could play but he had some issues and the coach wanted him gone. Didn't stop him being a handy player at another club. There are always players squeezed out of one club who go on to be successes elsewhere.

We have brought in one player, Acres, who we will create a spot for. That forces one weaker player out in that depth improvement scenario. We have a number of "maybes" on our list. Any youngsters we draft are going to be "maybes" at best (for 2023).

Our window is open now, and we want as many of our list capable of playing senior footy if required. If we see 4 kids that we think are worth drafting, that is fine. But if we only really want 3 in what is a shallow draft, isn't it better that the 4th player can be called upon to play a role in 2023 if needed? That doesn't mean I'm advocating for Howe.

I hope we draft 4 great kids that serve us well. Reading the room suggests there "might" be something else at play.

 

[BigFrizz36]

The guy is 26 and had 24 possessions in the last round versus the Dogs. He is not accepting a VFL position unless it is a last resort. Would be highly unlikely to discuss that until other avenues were exhausted.

Actually the guy is 27 and turns 28 about the start of next season. He played 9 games this season for 1 win and 8 losses in a poor team.

Said poor team decided to delist him.

From memory he broke Zac Fishers ankle and also got weeks for punching our skipper.

He'd be lucky to get a VFL position for mine.

 

[Arr0w]

Further to this, although our list is young overall, it is slightly unbalanced with few 2nd and 3rd year players, due to only using 3 ND picks in the past 2 years. We need more draftees to balance our profile, not 27 year olds (especially as depth).

I don't think adding a 27 year old makes us unbalanced, we have the least number of 29+ year olds next year, our 25 and under is on par with most sides

It's a poor argument for not wanting a player like Howe

 

[Earls Smother]

Actually the guy is 27 and turns 28 about the start of next season. He played 9 games this season for 1 win and 8 losses in a poor team.

Said poor team decided to delist him.

From memory he broke Zac Fishers ankle and also got weeks for punching our skipper.

He'd be lucky to get a VFL position for mine.

He also turns 29 in 2024 if that matters.

He played 20 games in 2021 before they prioritised getting games into blokes like Ward and MacDonald.

Rhys-Jones rule applies to punching our blokes.