News Bradshaw quits the Lions

[parrot]

I'll wait for 2010 to decide, but whose there to stop you. Roll on !!

I guess it's going to be a fear that will be festering away in he back of Brisbane supporters minds over the next few years. Brisbane would have been unstoppable if they got Fev for a bargin basement price, but the escalating cost has changed the equation considerably. Brisbane have effectively replaced Bradshaw with Fev. You're forwardline will be stronger, but not massively so. Problems still exist in defense, and lack of speed through the middle, and a lack of quality outside mids. Don't think the 3 pieces of dead wood you got will improve things. And recruiting Ball would be a face-saving measure, and exactly the type of player your list does not need i.e. another slow inside mid. Vossy got too involved in trade and list management issues i.e. ego and desire the media attention exceeded his capabilities in this area. He should stick to coaching.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Chris Connolly "went for it" as well. And look what happened. Voss is going down the lazy quick-fix top-up path. Might work, but could end in a Freo-type disaster.

not often you get to recruite a Coleman medalist in full flight. I do not think Freo ever managed that. Modra was a has been. Freo never had a Browlow on board. Freo have never had much and continue the trend.

 

[parrot]

So we go from a team that can't win a flag to a team that can't win a flag?...

No, you go from a team that thinks it's close to winning a flag (i.e. misreading the premiership clock), and one that thinks extreme top-up recruiting and trading away draft picks will pinch you a flag, even though you've sold out your future. Freo did exactly the same. Should we expect a different result? Something for you to ponder over the next 1 -2 years.

 

[parrot]

not often you get to recruite a Coleman medalist in full flight. I do not think Freo ever managed that. Modra was a has been. Freo never had a Browlow on board. Freo have never had much and continue the trend.

Fair points. But I still remember the massive media hype over Freo at the time. Many were predicting them to finish top-4 and push for the flag. There are similarities to the current Lions situation IMO. We'll see. There's certainly going to be a heap of pressure on them to perform from round 1.

 

[mpal6]

I guess it's going to be a fear that will be festering away in he back of Brisbane supporters minds over the next few years. Brisbane would have been unstoppable if they got Fev for a bargin basement price, but the escalating cost has changed the equation considerably. Brisbane have effectively replaced Bradshaw with Fev. You're forwardline will be stronger, but not massively so. Problems still exist in defense, and lack of speed through the middle, and a lack of quality outside mids. Don't think the 3 pieces of dead wood you got will improve things. And recruiting Ball would be a face-saving measure, and exactly the type of player your list does not need i.e. another slow inside mid. Vossy got too involved in trade and list management issues i.e. ego and desire the media attention exceeded his capabilities in this area. He should stick to coaching.

Nothing to fear for us. Atleast we know Vossy is having a go before Brown/Black/Power fade away. There will be collateral in these scenarios, but we wont die wondering.

 

[mpal6]

No, you go from a team that thinks it's close to winning a flag (i.e. misreading the premiership clock), and one that thinks extreme top-up recruiting and trading away draft picks will pinch you a flag, even though you've sold out your future. Freo did exactly the same. Should we expect a different result? Something for you to ponder over the next 1 -2 years.

Now that bit, I have to disagree.

We are throwing away picks on a weak draft. Pretty much all teams were doing it this trade period. You gave away Pick 11 for McLean, Hawks did the same and so did we. Sydney even tried a Pick 6 + Pick 14 for Pick 3 with Richmond, Port tried a Pick 8 and 9 for Pick 2 from Melbourne. That's how bad its been rated.

On the other hand, Freo threw away picks on strong drafts. That's where they got it wrong.

 

[parrot]

.... Atleast we know Vossy is having a go before Brown/Black/Power fade away. There will be collateral in these scenarios, but we wont die wondering.

That is exactly what he's doing. He knows these guys will be struggling in the very near future. But is top-up the best approach? It could make your future very bleak in a few years, espcially with the compromised drafts in full swing and another regional Qld team being introduced.

 

[Azul]

Carlton had to offer Chris Johnson a two year contract to get him to leave Melbourne.

We all know how that's working out. Maybe we should develop our own...

 

[krayfesh]

Everyone on BigFooty thought we were stuffed in a few years time anyway, now they talk of us selling away our bright future.

Nobody ever said bright.

 

[parrot]

Nobody ever said bright.

Exactly. They were viewed as a good, but aging list, with a very good forwardline, but a bit slow. All of a sudden the acquisition of Fev put them in the big league, although the mounting cost of the trade is offsetting that benefit, plus their other weakness are still there. Lots of pressure on the Lions.

 

[Ytoojae]

In reading this dicussion thread over the past hour I don't just see the Fremantle Dockers following their preliminary finals (although the similarities are startling) what I see is Carlton post 1999 GF -- if there's a club that knows all too well what happens when you mortgage the future for a chance at a premiership today then it's Carlton. We're the club that knows all too well what happens when you do that. It may sound like mockery of Brisbane at times, but I have a genuine fear for their future (although with their concessions, well, they wont need to worry about what happened to our club immediately following this era).

Carlton had made it to the 1999 AFL Grand Final which was a big surprise to a lot of football people and the club believed that it was a lot closer to a premiership than what it probably was. (Although to be fair Kouta going out in round 20 with the knee injury screwed up any chance of that happening).

Carlton traded picks #16 and #46 for Stephen O'Reilly and pick #31 for Michael Mansfield. Two players who had been stars in the AFL for many many years, so long in fact that they were past it when Carlton got them. We took ourselves out of a draft in order to win a premiership. In 2001 we made things worse by trading Porter, #14 and #30 to the Kangaroos for Corey McKernan.

The year 2000 was a bad year for the club as we lost Hamill and traded Justin Murphy to Geelong for pick 11. Unfortunately with picks 4, 11 and 15 we picked three players who massively underachieved at the club in Luke Livingston, Trent Sporn and Simon Wiggins. It was huge as the draft was very talented. Instead of those three players Carlton could have had the likes of Shaun Burgoyne, Ash McGrath, Scott Thompson, Daniel Kerr, Kane Cornes (wasn't father/son? - not according to wikipedia), Drew Petrie, Mark Coughlan, Adam McPhee, Mark Williams, Domenic Cassisi, Amon Buchanan, Daniel Cross, Corey Jones and/or Graham Johncock. However, only one of those players remains at the club and he's a fringe (at best) player in our best 22.

Still, the point is that Carlton went into a deep funk after giving up so much for a tilt at a premiership. Had the club not given up so much we may have survived the penalties so much better than what we did.

I can't blame Brisbane for going for it. That was never my argument. My argument is that it has cost them dearly and the cost escalates as they have now lost Bradshaw. No, perhaps he isn't worth 500k per year over three years. However, I believe that had the Lions not treated him as badly as they have he'd not have demanded that much. While he's always taken care of his bottom line in contract discussions what these Lions fans who harp on it fail to mention is that eventually he has ALWAYS taken significantly less to remain at the Lions. I can't fault a player who goes out and looks for what the best value he can get is then taking it back to his club and putting that on the table then negotiating down to a satisfactory level on both counts. That's not being a mercenary that's looking out for the best interests of yourself and accepting the best interests of the club that you play for.

 

[Salaryman]

Brisbane are simply experiencing life with a new coach with a bordelrine narcassistic personality disorder

 

[thylacine60]

I hate borderline narcissistic personality disorders...

 

[DIG]

Does anyone know why Brisbane didn't still try to include Bradshaw in the trade if he was willing to come to Carlton? Seemed he was just put aside when Rischa said no.

A trade of pick 12 + Bradshaw for Fev looks like it favours Carlton but they'd still have Hendersen on their list.

Instead they've now lost all 3.

Good post Ytoojae btw.

 

[parrot]

Does anyone know why Brisbane didn't still try to include Bradshaw in the trade if he was willing to come to Carlton? Seemed he was just put aside when Rischa said no.

A trade of pick 12 + Bradshaw for Fev looks like it favours Carlton but they'd still have Hendersen on their list.

Instead they've now lost all 3.

Good post Ytoojae btw.

I wouldn't be surprised if Swann planned this, or at least knew there was a decent chance he'd get Bradshaw for free in the PSD anyway. If Voss was smart he would have just offered Bradshaw plus pick 12 or Henderson, and that would have limited the damage to the Lions. Vossy's not exactly a skilled negotiator, and Swann took advantage. The Blues had very very little leverage in this trade, and somehow did well, and if they manage to get Bradshaw, the result is probably in our favour.

 

[1981]

I wouldn't be surprised if Swann planned this, or at least knew there was a decent chance he'd get Bradshaw for free in the PSD anyway. If Voss was smart he would have just offered Bradshaw plus pick 12 or Henderson, and that would have limited the damage to the Lions. Vossy's not exactly a skilled negotiator, and Swann took advantage. The Blues had very very little leverage in this trade, and somehow did well, and if they manage to get Bradshaw, the result is probably in our favour.

Unless I have missed something, why do you presume Voss did the negotiations on behalf on Brisbane?

That would seem incredibly unlikely.

 

[Go_Blues!]

I am not sure how anyone can say that Brisbane are winners or losers out of this trade right now but if I was a Brisbane supporter, I would be pretty happy with the aggression their football department are showing. They opportunistically got a star FF who is at the top of his game and traded very little to get it. They probably thought that pick 12 was speculative and they have a similar player to Henderson who is about the same age (Cornelius). If they do snare a premiership out of this, then we should all have nothing but respect for the courage they have shown. If they don't, we know they aint gunna die wondering. Of course, Carlton are also happy about this trade, Fev had to go, and this was about the best deal we could have got - less than he is worth but more than we could have expected. I also think, if you look at Brisbane's list, the other trades all add things that Brisbane need. I really think each of those players will strengthen their side and next year Brisbane will be a power.

 

[parrot]

I am not sure how anyone can say that Brisbane are winners or losers out of this trade right now but if I was a Brisbane supporter, I would be pretty happy with the aggression their football department are showing. They opportunistically got a star FF who is at the top of his game and traded very little to get it. They probably thought that pick 12 was speculative and they have a similar player to Henderson who is about the same age (Cornelius). If they do snare a premiership out of this, then we should all have nothing but respect for the courage they have shown. If they don't, we know they aint gunna die wondering. Of course, Carlton are also happy about this trade, Fev had to go, and this was about the best deal we could have got - less than he is worth but more than we could have expected. I also think, if you look at Brisbane's list, the other trades all add things that Brisbane need. I really think each of those players will strengthen their side and next year Brisbane will be a power.

Don't really agree. First up Aggressive trading is not necessary smart trading. Sometimes the best approach is no trades. It depends on the situation i.e. what players are on offer, and the draft pick situation, and how much leverage you have in any trade negotiation. Voss grossly over-traded IMO. Fev could have been an awesome trade, but he coughed up way too much considering the strong negotiating position he was in i.e Blues desperate to get rid of Fev.

Also, did they really address their needs? Their KP forwards were strong, and they've made them marginally better replacing Bradshaw with Fev.

Has their crumbing forward weakness been addressed? Those players they added are hardly superstars. Will Staker improve their defense? Doubt it.

There was a lot of ego in Voss's trade week efforts, but it was not smart trading. They've traded away 2, first round pick players, plus a lot of other draft picks. Chris Connelly did something similar at Freo a few seasons back, and the result was disastrous.

 

[The Toad]

Don't really agree. First up Aggressive trading is not necessary smart trading. Sometimes the best approach is no trades. It depends on the situation i.e. what players are on offer, and the draft pick situation, and how much leverage you have in any trade negotiation. Voss grossly over-traded IMO. Fev could have been an awesome trade, but he coughed up way too much considering the strong negotiating position he was in i.e Blues desperate to get rid of Fev.

Also, did they really address their needs? Their KP forwards were strong, and they've made them marginally better replacing Bradshaw with Fev.

Has their crumbing forward weakness been addressed? Those players they added are hardly superstars. Will Staker improve their defense? Doubt it.

There was a lot of ego in Voss's trade week efforts, but it was not smart trading. They've traded away 2, first round pick players, plus a lot of other draft picks. Chris Connelly did something similar at Freo a few seasons back, and the result was disastrous.

I'm with you Parrot, I think they have taken is up the a#se with the Fev deal. They have effectivly lost 3 Players for Fev. Henderson could be anything, who knows about pick 12, but I trust our guys to get the best possible person and if we happen to land Bradshaw, Voss and the Lions trade people will look like total flogs. The rest of their pick ups - with the exception of Raines who I think is a pretty decent player - are just list cloggers. So I think all these people who are touting how great they did in trade week spoke a bit soon IMO.