News Brent Renouf traded to Port Adelaide

[missionpossible]

WOW, how can you guys find a negative in this trade.

Pick 33 in this deaft is about equivelant to pick 50 in a normal draft.

It gives us a tandom ruck team of which both ruckmen are completely different ab it like the Lade/Primus combination. If is now going to mean Redden is going to have to earn a game which if he is good enough he will and if he isn't good enough thank god we weren't holding our breath for him.

Looking like getting Ebert and Renouf for 28 and 33. Both of which improves our best 22 and both are young with long careers in front of them.

Geoff Parker would a miracle worker if he could get that much quality through the draft with those picks.

Pick 6 now very very very unlikely to be used on a ruckman which would make most on here happy. A classy mid to come our way so for next year we have 3 players who we can expect to be in out best 22 making our team better. Ebert will give us that big body midfielder, yes he isn't perfect but if he was pick 6 would be gone. Renouf give us another strong body, expect him to be like Brogan as in not the greatest skills but he will have a huge influence on our win loss ratio.

Renouf also puts pressure on Lobbe to continue to improve which can only be a good thing.

Trade period has been successful, we have improved our list. We have been screaming out for a ruckman and a big bodied midfielder and we have them.

The other great thing is it means Trengove can get settled down as a key defender.

We are going to be bloody tall but players like Trengove, Butcher and Westhoff have pace as well

 

[Schulzenfest]

WOW, how can you guys find a negative in this trade.

'Here's my problem with this deal. We've either made our best 22 stupidly top heavy (Lobbe, Renouf, Westhoff, Butcher and Schulz, plus possibly Brett Ebert, all as offensive KPP players) or we've traded an early second rounder for a 23 year old who we don't think is in our best 22.'

Do you disagree with any of that? If not, that's how somebody can find a negative in this trade. We needed a ruck/forward to back up Lobbe, not a pure ruckman. Whichever of Lobbe or Renouf isn't rucking at any given time will be a liability.

 

[missionpossible]

Renouf is considered to be best 22.

Lobbe, Renouf, Schulz, Butcher, Westhoff, Chaplin, Trengove, Carlile.

8 talls, no I think history says that is the right number as long as you dont lose ground speed. Butcher, Westhoff and Trengove have plenty of leg speed.

It does mean that we can have a mid as a sub and any small forward has to run through the midfield as well which I like. I can see Lobbe and Renouf spending most of the time running on the ball together rather than one being parked at full forward all day.

It also means Lobbe doesn't hve to ruck 90% of every game every week of the year which will help both of them get through the season

 

[brogan2motlop]

I am happy for pick 33 Some of you carry on like it was going to be dead set gold choice

I actually think we got slightly ahead in this trade

Now pick 28 for ebert and keep pick 6 I actually don't mind what we would have done this year probably a pass to good outcome in this weak draft

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

I rate Renouf, would of been happy to keep him as a hawk..........
An Injurey ruled him out this year, but not injury proned in my book!

Upside never allows the opp to dominate, strong in the body, moves well and in 2010 added assisting in defence with those last minute marks or punch over the line and in the forward line goal kicking and tackling, quite a strong mark.... Never gives up, keeps trying....To me the guy is set for a break out year...

Room for improvement..... Needs to work on his brain snaps, gives away too many dumb arse free kicks and his kicking skills, particullary over short distance is a concern... Needs some work! Needs to increase his around the ground work, just starting being effective assisting in defence n attack.... Just needs a bit more of it..... Good luck Renouf, thanks for the service and years....

FTR: Pretty fair trade, you guys came a fraction out on top............... How far depends on who we draft and how they go, only time can give us the big answer overall

 

[PJ Power]

Nice posting Missionpossible. Agree with your overall take on our acquisitions.

The question of 8 v 7 talls is one we've debated for many years now. I remember being a heavy proponent of playing Damon White (and Toby Thurstans!) in our 22 during the 2004 finals campaign. At the time I thought Tredders needed more support, especially after he got multi-teamed in a mid-season loss against the Bombers at TD. History shows that 7 talls worked well for us though and that we got the mix right up forward.

The player(s) under most pressure to keep his spot in the 22 will be Westhoff actually. We've finally accepted that to stay competitive in matches for 4 quarters, we need to play two bona fide ruckmen to sustain momentum and keep the pressure on the opposition at stoppages. We probably lost both the Brisbane and Essendon games this year by having just Lobbe who faded after 3/4 time in both those matches. Renouf/Redden and Lobbe both make our best 22. Butcher should be a lock-in, assuming he continues to improve. Schulz is safe if he performs as well as he has the past 2 years, but this may not be a sure thing if Butcher becomes a more dominant focal point up forward. Westhoff probably will need to continue to play as an effective high half-forward tall wingman to make his spot in the side safe. I think he can do that, but he needs to find a new level of consistency. Daniel Stewart becomes pure backup value.

Brad Ebert is a solid pick-up although I don't share the raw enthusiasm of others here about how high his ceiling can be. For example, I can't see him progressing his game as quickly or as far as Josh Kennedy has done since joining Sydney. If he did, then wow!

The key now is to recruit the right sort of midfielder with pick 6, and then to back that up with the PSD pick and a couple of late main draft picks. I'd favour targeting some ready-made, known quality, young SANFL/VFL players with picks 45 and 51. A key defender would be nice, and a close checking small-medium defender also. PSD pick should be used on another midfielder if we can get the right one to fall to us.

Just a pity we couldn't shake something loose for Motlop.

 

[Quadzilla]

We just recruited a bloke that has a crack and gives his all for 120 minutes. We haven't given up a lot for him and in time this could prove to be a great trade for the club.

Welcome to the Port Adelaide Football Club Brent. Look forward to you giving your all for your new club and home.

/\ this ... welcome aboard Brent!

 

[S.Patrol.G]

So we wouldn't trade pick 34 for Sam Jacobs last year, but this year we'll trade pick 33 for Brent Renouf?

Balme can't replace the ****ing moron that is Peter Rhode fast enough. The people running this club are ****ing idiots.

Also had to do with money.

yea this was a turkey of a decision

Not only does it show we have no forward planning/list management planning at all

by bypassing rucks in the form of Jacobs in trade then Lycett in the draft last year

but then offering our second round draft pick for a "back up" ruck this year?

Money. Cost too much.

Gopower needs to remember maybe we couldn't prOmise what he wanted, which is first choice ruck!!!!

and the money he wanted.

'Here's my problem with this deal. We've either made our best 22 stupidly top heavy (Lobbe, Renouf, Westhoff, Butcher and Schulz, plus possibly Brett Ebert, all as offensive KPP players) or we've traded an early second rounder for a 23 year old who we don't think is in our best 22.'

Do you disagree with any of that? If not, that's how somebody can find a negative in this trade. We needed a ruck/forward to back up Lobbe, not a pure ruckman. Whichever of Lobbe or Renouf isn't rucking at any given time will be a liability.

Yet you go on about not getting Jacobs? How's he gone as a forward?

/\ this ... welcome aboard Brent!

I agree with what you said about what FH07 said.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

WOW, how can you guys find a negative in this trade.

Pick 33 in this deaft is about equivelant to pick 50 in a normal draft.

It gives us a tandom ruck team of which both ruckmen are completely different ab it like the Lade/Primus combination. If is now going to mean Redden is going to have to earn a game which if he is good enough he will and if he isn't good enough thank god we weren't holding our breath for him.

Looking like getting Ebert and Renouf for 28 and 33. Both of which improves our best 22 and both are young with long careers in front of them.

Geoff Parker would a miracle worker if he could get that much quality through the draft with those picks.

Pick 6 now very very very unlikely to be used on a ruckman which would make most on here happy. A classy mid to come our way so for next year we have 3 players who we can expect to be in out best 22 making our team better. Ebert will give us that big body midfielder, yes he isn't perfect but if he was pick 6 would be gone. Renouf give us another strong body, expect him to be like Brogan as in not the greatest skills but he will have a huge influence on our win loss ratio.

Renouf also puts pressure on Lobbe to continue to improve which can only be a good thing.

Trade period has been successful, we have improved our list. We have been screaming out for a ruckman and a big bodied midfielder and we have them.

The other great thing is it means Trengove can get settled down as a key defender.

We are going to be bloody tall but players like Trengove, Butcher and Westhoff have pace as well

What he said.

I'm really happy with how it has turned out. We've added two AFL quality players with picks that would have been more than speculative. And both big strong young bodies that will improve our contested footy.

And we completed our major trading with the weekend to spare.

Primus seems keen to run with 2 rucks next year and as you said Lobbe and Renouf look a good young tandem especially as both have great running power. Redden can develop behind them and should lead a SANFL ruck division.

Ebert's a good AFL player. Sure as you said he has his faults but he's nearly a 100 game player by the time he is 22yo.

If we are finished now I'd be happy with our lot. I reckon Rohde will try and work some low level stuff in the remaining days, maybe off-load Motlop for a draft upgrade ... dunno. They might still be on the lookout without much pressure attached.

 

[Wargreymon90]

Put it this way. Whoever we picked up with picks 28 and 33 would have just ended up playing sanfl all next year anyway

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Brent Renouf is the Matt Thomas of ruckmen.

 

[squinto]

So we wouldn't trade pick 34 for Sam Jacobs last year, but this year we'll trade pick 33 for Brent Renouf?

Balme can't replace the ****ing moron that is Peter Rhode fast enough. The people running this club are ****ing idiots.

I think it was for Pick 35 but I still agree with your comments (that's if in fact we did offer this). Again it's hard to establish what is fact and fiction with our media. If this was the case we bascially chose Ben Newton over Sam Jacobs?

Renouf was also pick 24 in the 06 draft and a premiership player with plenty of upside so this could also explain us giving up pick 33. I also think the way he goes about the footy and attacking style suits what Port is after.

 

[John Hart Jnr]

**** you Port Adelaide.

Renouf:

Career high disposals: 14
Career high hitouts: 31

Lobbe:

Career high disposals: 19
Career high hitouts: 35

So Lobbe surpassed him in 13 games!

Ugh. Ah well, happy to be wrong.

I think the Essendon fade out made the coaching staff realise that they had to play two Ruckmen. Both Lobbe and Renouf can be used up forward and Renouf is useful down back.

It doesn’t bode well for Daniel Stewart. He wont play unless a few talls get injured.

 

[*PAF]

**** you Port Adelaide.

Renouf:

Career high disposals: 14
Career high hitouts: 31

Lobbe:

Career high disposals: 19
Career high hitouts: 35

So Lobbe surpassed him in 13 games!

Ugh. Ah well, happy to be wrong.

Stats are a silly way of comparing players, even more so for ruckmen.
Jamar was supposed to be the biggest dud of all at one stage.
In his first 13 games

Jacobs:

Career high disposals: 15
Career high hitouts: 28

Does that mean Lobbe >>>> Jacobs?

 

[Natman]

I think it was for Pick 35 but I still agree with your comments (that's if in fact we did offer this). Again it's hard to establish what is fact and fiction with our media. If this was the case we bascially chose Ben Newton over Sam Jacobs?

Renouf was also pick 24 in the 06 draft and a premiership player with plenty of upside so this could also explain us giving up pick 33. I also think the way he goes about the footy and attacking style suits what Port is after.

Carlton accepted pick 33 - so what lower pick and/or players were you going to offer to top that to get Jacobs?

 

[Hellgood]

It doesn’t bode well for Daniel Stewart. He wont play unless a few talls get injured.

I think thats a good thing. Need to start showing he can deliver at AFL, we have seen glimpses of fantastic contested marking and mobility around the ground, but he's not even close to Westhoff's level yet.

 

[Portmanteau]

I think we've forgotten what it's like to have actual depth (and good players in the SANFL every week).

The same philosophy that would have seen us go into next season with just Lobbe and Redden would be the same that saw us go in this year with nothing behind Chaplin, Carlile and Trengove.

If Daniel Stewart needs to kick 40 goals in the SANFL before getting a recall, we shall be a better team. Similarly if Redden has to get in the best for WWT half-a-dozen times.

 

[tealpower]

People can squabble all they like about Brent Renouf and Brad Ebert forgetting there's one question that people need to ask themselves regarding these acquisitions. Do they improve the Port Adelaide Football Club team? In the short term yes in the long term that is yet to be determined.

The success of these trades will be known 3 years down the track. Right now, both service short term needs indicating Primus and his coaching staff have given the list a favourable assessment and will be placing an emphasis on player development rather than broad sweeping changes in 2012.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Stats are a silly way of comparing players, even more so for ruckmen.
Jamar was supposed to be the biggest dud of all at one stage.
In his first 13 games

Jacobs:

Career high disposals: 15
Career high hitouts: 28

Does that mean Lobbe >>>> Jacobs?

That's just silly - Jacobs never had an extended period as no. 1 ruck for Carlton. Plus I'm comparing Renouf's first 52 games to Lobbe's first 13. So please, compare Jacobs first 52 if you want the same comparison.

For what it's worth, Renouf was also Hawthorn's no 1 ruck for the entire 2010 season.

 

[Macca19]

Do you disagree with any of that? If not, that's how somebody can find a negative in this trade. We needed a ruck/forward to back up Lobbe, not a pure ruckman. Whichever of Lobbe or Renouf isn't rucking at any given time will be a liability.

I think we are forgetting that Lobbe was originally drafted as a pseudo-CHF replacement for Tredrea. Thats certainly where he spent the whole of his first year, playing either at CHF or CHB.

I think we are also forgetting that whilst Lobbe had a decent year of improvement and battled manfully, you only have to look at the stats to see he has a long long way to go.

R14 - Lobbe 24 hitouts, Goldstein 53
R15 - Lobbe 22, Leuenberger 37
R16 - Lobbe 25, McEvoy 40
R17 - Lobbe 22, Jamar 37
R19 - Lobbe 17, Jacobs 22 - Maric 17
R20 - Lobbe 22, Collingwood 55
R21 - Lobbe 18, Bailey/Hale 52
R23 - Lobbe 18, Hille/Ryder 45
R24 - Lobbe 19, Jamar 40

Statistically, he was spanked every week except the Dogs game. We NEED genuine Ruck support for him. Hell, we probably need Lobbe to be the 2nd ruck. We lost at least two of those games due to being absolutely smashed in the ruck in the 2nd half. Putting all our eggs in the Redden basket is fraught with incredible danger considering he hasnt played a game and is just SANFL standard. Do we want Trengove/Stewart/Westhoff filling in and doing frick all?

I dont see how this is a disaster trade.

 

[Portia]

I think we've forgotten what it's like to have actual depth (and good players in the SANFL every week).

I find it hard to give a shit about having this level of ruck `depth' when if Butcher or Schulz get injured our backups are Nuff-Nuff and Whodat.

But hey, lets recruit a flanker at pick #6, and then when we hit the superdraft in 2012 lets draft all midfielders again, because we used our picks on `depth' this year.

 

[Natman]

I think we are forgetting that Lobbe was originally drafted as a pseudo-CHF replacement for Tredrea. Thats certainly where he spent the whole of his first year, playing either at CHF or CHB.

I think we are also forgetting that whilst Lobbe had a decent year of improvement and battled manfully, you only have to look at the stats to see he has a long long way to go.

R14 - Lobbe 24 hitouts, Goldstein 53
R15 - Lobbe 22, Leuenberger 37
R16 - Lobbe 25, McEvoy 40
R17 - Lobbe 22, Jamar 37
R19 - Lobbe 17, Jacobs 22 - Maric 17
R20 - Lobbe 22, Collingwood 55
R21 - Lobbe 18, Bailey/Hale 52
R23 - Lobbe 18, Hille/Ryder 45
R24 - Lobbe 19, Jamar 40

Statistically, he was spanked every week except the Dogs game. We NEED genuine Ruck support for him. Hell, we probably need Lobbe to be the 2nd ruck. We lost at least two of those games due to being absolutely smashed in the ruck in the 2nd half. Putting all our eggs in the Redden basket is fraught with incredible danger considering he hasnt played a game and is just SANFL standard. Do we want Trengove/Stewart/Westhoff filling in and doing frick all?

I dont see how this is a disaster trade.

It's noticeable how Lobbe dropped off as the season progressed and that's after only half a season in the AFL. It would have been more difficult without back-up for a full AFL season.

Renouf is a must for that reason, let alone if Lobbe goes down with an LTI. The hybrids are now in that situation by releasing Maric.

 

[Portmanteau]

I find it hard to give a shit about having this level of ruck `depth' when if Butcher or Schulz get injured our backups are Nuff-Nuff and Whodat.

But hey, lets recruit a flanker at pick #6, and then when we hit the superdraft in 2012 lets draft all midfielders again, because we used our picks on `depth' this year.

Hmmm.

I don't think our forward depth is that big of an issue. Certainly no bigger than that of any other club. How do Collingwood look if Cloke and Dawes get injured for example?

Daniel Stewart (and potentially Nick Salter) are not world beaters but certainly comparable to the forward depth of any other club should a random catostrophic injury hit our guns, that could happen to any player at any club.

The trio of Schulz, Westhoff and Schulz was very impressive in the game against Hawthorn late 2010, so if we can replace players structurally and have an improved midfield, that surely improves us.

Secondly, I don't think you can say we have used the trade for 'depth', we have used it to recruit a first 22 player (Renouf) which has in turn created depth which we sorely need. Renouf's recruitment essentially makes Daniel Stewart a full-time forward back-up, who should replace any of the nominal three talls structurally if needed. In your estimations we'd probably use pick 33 on a flanker, so isn't this a good outcome?

I'll ignore the flanker at pick 6 comment as it is purely hypothetical and perhaps unlikely to occur. Obviously we differ in assessment of our list, but I think our #1 glaring need is midfield talent behind Boak, Gray and Harlett (refer to several posts I made last week, I'm not just making this up as I go along). If we load up there at #6 this year and the early picks of 2012, that will be the correct decision in my view.

 

[Portia]

Given Schulz' rate of injury compared to Cloke/Dawes, you would think we have a significantly greater need for a third proper key forward to be on our list, preferably a good one as Schulz enters his 10th year of AFL football. And we saw how well that worked for Collingwood with Dawes having a big layoff during the year and coming into the finals with dubious fitness.

And my hypothetical isn't on both being injured, just one would do. If/when Schulz goes down again, how sensible is it that Butcher is going to be the lone focal point of our forward line? He's got less years on the clock than any of our three ruckmen.

 

[Portmanteau]

OK, so Collingwood, the 2010 premiers and 2011 minor premiers, are unable to adequately replace their key forwards.

I think this may suggest key forward talent is too thin across the AFL in order to have similarly talented back-ups stepping up at even the best clubs.

I do take your point, but we are at least putting quality key position players out on the park every week whereas we have been putting C-grade mids in the first 22 weekly due to a dearth of quality.