Brisbane needs help

[Crawb]

Brisbane are above Saints on the ladder.

Port were as bad as both of them 2 years ago and no help was given to them.

lolwut?

 

[MickyG]

Leigh Mathews says let homesick draftees go in the pre-season draft and for Queensland and NSW players earning less than a set amount to get paid extra directly from the AFL.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-24/leigh-lethal-on-gohomers

The extra sounds like a modified COLA and fits in with what I have argued in regards to COLA.

"Statistics show the four northern state clubs are still most at risk of losing players to homesickness, with 96 percent of drafted players coming from outside Queensland and New South Wales.

The Lions have been particularly hammered in recent years, with figures gathered by advocacy group The Lion's Roar showing 10 of their past 19 first round draft picks left for homesickness."

How much evidence do people need to show that something needs to be in place to support retention in Queensland and NSW?

 

[Slax]

I'd definitely want to go Sydney (especially with a nice COLA or rent allowance) over Brisbane, but neither of them would force me to move back to Melbourne.

I know there are issues with traffic like any city but why can't the players live somewhere that puts them close to nice beaches? Is there not somewhere attractive to live in between Brisbane and Gold Coast or Brisbane and Noosa? Guys manage to play in Geelong despite still living in Melbourne. The GWS guys are moving further east to join their Bondi mates and then dealing with the Sydney traffic.

As for the Gold Coast I'm sure the young felllas have a good time there but a tourist town/trouble spot isn't exactly my ideal place to live. Brisbane has the advantage of being a real city even if only just.

I can't help but think Geelong manage to do pretty well in sleepy hollow. Port is now a destination club despite being the little brother of the Adelaide teams. I know both of those benefit from a much better percentage of home town recruits but they don't lose people at all. Where as Adelaide have lost quite a few lately and have at the same time been a badly run club.

I hope Brisbane get help off field. I can't believe just how vital a good President and CEO combination has become to being a good club. Multi million dollar business but the decisions largely come down to a small group - President, CEO, Coach, Recruiter, Fitness chief.

Between Brisbane and Noosa there isn't a lot, best spot would be somewhere like Mooloobah, but realistically not many places worth living.

A few players live between Brisbane and Gold Coast, it was worth noting that Rischitelli was one, so when burnt by Voss, when offered as trade for Fev, despite never being consulted it was an easy move to go to the Suns.

As no doubt you have noticed, now that Melbourne have sorted out their off-field administration problems and appointed a decent coach, unsurpisingly they are playing much better footy. It is also unsurprising to me that a number of players are looking much happier, especially Jack Watts who was constantly singled out by Neeld is back to producing what he was in Dean Bailey final season when he looked like a top 10 draft pick.

 

[chiwigi]

SOMEBODY HAS TO BE BOTTOM AND CRAP! Just as somebody has to be at the top!

As long as the playing field is equal in terms of sharing the joint funds AND money making opportunities then clubs must sort themselves out (Port 2008-2012 INCLUDED).

As for homesickness!!! If living in qld IS UNATTRACTIVE TO SOMEBODY FROM RAINY VICTORIA, THEN THE lIONS ARE DOING A SHIT JOB.

 

[Power Raid]

lolwut?

you will find out in the fullness of time, no help was given

 

[John]

A few players live between Brisbane and Gold Coast, it was worth noting that Rischitelli was one, so when burnt by Voss, when offered as trade for Fev, despite never being consulted it was an easy move to go to the Suns.

Rischa was already gone to the Suns hence the attempt to trade him to Carlton AFTER the fact that this was known. I was told this personally by both the Lions and the Suns CEOs at a private function that they both attended.

 

[Jade]

I remember on two occasions last year being howled down when I suggested that if satisfactory value is not achieved for a player wanting out, that they should be thrown into the preseason draft.

"So you'd lose them for nothing rather than take what is offered?"

"Yes"

"LOL"

Seems Matthews agrees.

FWIW, I think the AFL missed a golden opportunity to help clubs such as Brisbane when FA was introduced. Whilst making it easier for veteran players to move clubs, they should have made it harder for younger players to move.

IMO, the problem of players abandoning clubs after their initial draft period could largely be fixed by implementing one very simple fix - deny access to the Pre-Season Draft for any player of four years or less. They can however re-enter the National Draft.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

I do agree with Matthews that they should go into the PSD unless Brisbane get a good deal.

Once players see they will end up at bottom clubs - possibly in any state - then they are more likely to stay.

 

[Port 2004]

...forget to take your memory tablets?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/30/3257859.htm?site=adelaide

I think that you will find that Port were only getting some of the money that, but for a cra** stadium deal, was theirs in the first instance.

 

[Slax]

Rischa was already gone to the Suns hence the attempt to trade him to Carlton AFTER the fact that this was known. I was told this personally by both the Lions and the Suns CEOs at a private function that they both attended.

I thought it was just Brennan we knew was going before the Fev trade but Carlton had no interest in him.

 

[Mayestro]

Good article:

Homesick factor continues to cripple struggling Lions

Since the Lions' inception in 1996, they've had 19 first-round draft picks – the cream of the draft crop. Astoundingly, 15 of those players finished their careers with other clubs; most moved during or before their prime. Of those, 10 players returned to their home state.

By comparison, over the same period, clubs from traditional footy states lost an average of just two first-rounders to "homesickness".

While the retention challenge is not new, it is, worryingly, intensifying. Last year the exodus of "Go Home Five", Polec, Docherty, Yeo, Longer and Karnezis, was well documented. While some commentators were quick to attribute their departure to off-field dramas, that doesn't explain why the Lions have regularly lost players through good times and bad.

The bolded is the biggest concern- that even when we were winning, had cutting edge facilities and a retention allowance we were still losing players. Now that our facilities are waaay behind everyone else's, we are struggling on field and have no retention allowance it is much worse.

 

[Viceregal]

I do agree with Matthews that they should go into the PSD unless Brisbane get a good deal.

Once players see they will end up at bottom clubs - possibly in any state - then they are more likely to stay.

At which point in time wouldn't most of them end up at the club that everyone knows they want to be at especially since they have just bailed on their last club that they didn't want to be at?

 

[Lensen]

Since it's been quoted about three times since, and on the AFL site and The Age no less, I'm still keen to see where the 10 homesick players comes from.

Who are the 10 first round picks they've lost to the "go home" factor? I've got it as 8:

Rory Hilton
Shane O'Bree
Des Headland
Jason Gram (50/50 given he had played 2 games in 2 years, but will include him)
Jared Polec
Patrick Karnezis
Billy Longer
Sam Docherty

So we've got 3 blokes 10-15 years ago, one who left arguably for more opportunity during a pretty bloody strong Lions era, and four who left when the club was a shambles.

Why did none of their top picks "go home" between Gram and Polec if it's a systemic issue that only a retention allowance can fix?

There are other first round picks that played at other clubs but didn't leave due to the "go home" factor
Cupido - traded whilst under contract
Brennan - went down the road
Spaanderman - delisted then popped up at WC 12 months later
Wood - traded to Collingwood, but is from SA
Clark - went to Melbourne, but is from WA
Henderson - traded for Fevola

 

[Jade]

At which point in time wouldn't most of them end up at the club that everyone knows they want to be at especially since they have just bailed on their last club that they didn't want to be at?

Yeah possibly. As I said earlier, I reckon they need to be denied access to the PSD.

 

[Dynamics]

Leigh Mathews says let homesick draftees go in the pre-season draft and for Queensland and NSW players earning less than a set amount to get paid extra directly from the AFL.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-24/leigh-lethal-on-gohomers

The extra sounds like a modified COLA and fits in with what I have argued in regards to COLA.

"Statistics show the four northern state clubs are still most at risk of losing players to homesickness, with 96 percent of drafted players coming from outside Queensland and New South Wales.

The Lions have been particularly hammered in recent years, with figures gathered by advocacy group The Lion's Roar showing 10 of their past 19 first round draft picks left for homesickness."

How much evidence do people need to show that something needs to be in place to support retention in Queensland and NSW?

I don't doubt that there are player retention issues for some clubs and I wouldn't argue against the AFL putting measures in place to assist them in overcoming the problem.

I think that what many people would argue in relation to schemes like COLA is that a retention problem due to homesickness doesn't therefore mean that some clubs must have ongoing additional funds to put in players' pockets.

(No, I don't have an answer to what would fix the retention problem, but then the onus is not on me to come up with a solution)

 

[Jade]

(No, I don't have an answer to what would fix the retention problem, but then the onus is not on me to come up with a solution)

IMO, the problem of players abandoning clubs after their initial draft period could largely be fixed by implementing one very simple fix - deny access to the Pre-Season Draft for any player of four years or less. They can however re-enter the National Draft.

What do you think?

 

[DST]

If the general consesus is that the AFL world does not want rentention allowances paid to the QLD and NSW clubs, then the only viable option going forward to address the significant imbalance of draftees to the Northern clubs coming from interstate is the academy schemes (however even the academys will be decades away from bearing real fruit to address the imbalance).

What is frightening is that Eddie, having almost removed the retention allowance in all of their previous formats is now going to turn his attention to the academy schemes as well.

Wether you like it or not in VIC/WA/SA, there are inequalities in place with the drafting system due to uneven spread of where the talent comes from and these inequalities need to be addressed (especially with free agency now). Sure from time to time these teams will have periods of success, but that won't be down to the concessions (that comes from getting your administration, drafting/trading and talent development right).

Unfortunately people like Eddie do not see this and come to the discussion from a vested interest point of view.

 

[TedDougChris]

Leigh Mathews says let homesick draftees go in the pre-season draft and for Queensland and NSW players earning less than a set amount to get paid extra directly from the AFL.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-24/leigh-lethal-on-gohomers

The extra sounds like a modified COLA and fits in with what I have argued in regards to COLA.

"Statistics show the four northern state clubs are still most at risk of losing players to homesickness, with 96 percent of drafted players coming from outside Queensland and New South Wales.

The Lions have been particularly hammered in recent years, with figures gathered by advocacy group The Lion's Roar showing 10 of their past 19 first round draft picks left for homesickness."

How much evidence do people need to show that something needs to be in place to support retention in Queensland and NSW?

See if you can follow the highlighted section. Article claims that Qld and NSW have a high percentage of recruits from outside QLD and NSW. Article then states that Lions have had a tough time recently, with a high turnover of players. Poster then requests COLA for the Swans....

Typical....

 

[Crawb]

you will find out in the fullness of time, no help was given

No. I think you'll find AFL were very generous in their help. Deny it all you like but you can't change facts....

 

[Slax]

I remember on two occasions last year being howled down when I suggested that if satisfactory value is not achieved for a player wanting out, that they should be thrown into the preseason draft.

"So you'd lose them for nothing rather than take what is offered?"

"Yes"

"LOL"

Seems Matthews agrees.

FWIW, I think the AFL missed a golden opportunity to help clubs such as Brisbane when FA was introduced. Whilst making it easier for veteran players to move clubs, they should have made it harder for younger players to move.

IMO, the problem of players abandoning clubs after their initial draft period could largely be fixed by implementing one very simple fix - deny access to the Pre-Season Draft for any player of four years or less. They can however re-enter the National Draft.

I agree, the trade process makes it too easy for any young player to walk out of a club. I think that until a players has played 4 years the original club that drafts them should be allowed to block them from nominating for the draft if they want to walk out. If a player is really that home sick they'll go home and play in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL for a year before going back into the draft if they weren't happy to trade. This would give clubs like Brisbane/GWS/etc some actual negotiating power rather than be told you get this or nothing. It'd quickly show who is homesick and who is just trying to abuse the system. The AFLPA would be in an uproar over this, but I reckon you'd find all clubs actually don't mind it because they can still trade for young players, just they have to pay market rates.

Of the 5 who left, Polec was probably the only one I reckon would've actually been happy enough to play in the SANFL for a year, he'd had a rotten run with injuries at Brisbane and was just over it.

 

[Jade]

you will find out in the fullness of time, no help was given

Dude really?

I think just about everyone applauds the Power for its efforts the last few years - but trying to deny the AFL basically floated them there for a while?

 

[Dynamics]

What do you think?

My gut reaction is that it might be worth a try. I wonder what the AFLPA would have to say about it though.

 

[Jade]

I agree, the trade process makes it too easy for any young player to walk out of a club. I think that until a players has played 4 years the original club that drafts them should be allowed to block them from nominating for the draft if they want to walk out. If a player is really that home sick they'll go home and play in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL for a year before going back into the draft if they weren't happy to trade. This would give clubs like Brisbane/GWS/etc some actual negotiating power rather than be told you get this or nothing. It'd quickly show who is homesick and who is just trying to abuse the system. The AFLPA would be in an uproar over this, but I reckon you'd find all clubs actually don't mind it because they can still trade for young players, just they have to pay market rates.

Of the 5 who left, Polec was probably the only one I reckon would've actually been happy enough to play in the SANFL for a year, he'd had a rotten run with injuries at Brisbane and was just over it.

I'd still give them access to the draft, just not the preseason (I think in a practical sense you'd have to qualify it by saying they can ONLY enter the PSD if they were also nominated for the ND).

It would mean that clubs that are basically not paying fair compensation would actually have to part with a valuable draft pick to secure the player. Ie. Not so easy to threaten to let a player walk to the PSD if you may have to use your second round pick in the ND to get him.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see a system where a player can be traded anywhere - however that won't ever happen.

 

[Jade]

My gut reaction is that it might be worth a try. I wonder what the AFLPA would have to say about it though.

I agree. However whilst in negotiation for FA, they may have been able to put it in.

I know it's likely we'll see a reduction of sorts in FA criteria soon; maybe that's an opportunity.

 

[Dynamics]

I agree. However whilst in negotiation for FA, they may have been able to put it in.

I know it's likely we'll see a reduction of sorts in FA criteria soon; maybe that's an opportunity.

Sydney and Brisbane will likely be knocking the AFL's door down so it would be in their interests to at least have something to offer them. If you were particularly callous you could always point the finger at the AFLPA and say "we tried to help you out but THEY wouldn't let us". I'm sure the AFL are above such things, aren't they???