Traded Bryce Gibbs [traded to Adelaide] - (cont. in Part 2)

[Kane McGoodwin]

Who is the better player as we speak? Who offers the Crows the best fit during their "window".
It's like saying you would take a 4WD over a sportscar. The Crows need the sportscar while Carlton probably need the 4WD. That's where the value comparisons get skewed!

You realise trade value isn't about who is currently the better player but what value clubs think they have for the remainder of their career. Otherwise Sam Mitchell would have fetched a 1st rounder.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Ask yourself this question again once Mitchell has had a tag at Hawthorn...

Seen him tagged at Sydney so not sure what your point is...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The longer this deal goes on, who does it affect adversely the most?

Probably Gibbs.

 

[bmaurizio]

I think you're right.

I hate how irrelevant contracts have become - but that's the brave new world the AFL has created by Free Agency and their endorsement of some ridiculous contracts.

I understand the Carlton perspective, if I thought he was a gun, I'd be pretty disappointed to lose him - but I do think that pick 13 would be good value for him; and in the context of where Carlton are at, pick 13 should have a lot more value to them.

I actually think #13 is probably a bit over, given his age, and the fact he's a very good player, not a great one (as can be seen by his BF results, lack of invidual honours, inconsistency over the years); again, Mitchell had that value, and everyone except a Carlton few have said they'd take Mitchell - but he's of value to us, so pick 13 might be a bit strong, but it's worth it.

Do you honestly think that Bryce Gibbs is just a very good player and in a team environment you have at the Crows would not produce elite footfall for at least 3 to 4 years?
Crows have gained plenty from trading with the Baggers in the last few years, it's time to be a little magnanimous.

We both know both symbolically, the missed father and son etc ... and practical terms what Bryce would bring to the Crows.
The ball is in Adeliade's court, I think a good deal for all will get done Monday or Tuesday Bryce is in a bit of a bind and he's too big a fish to let go.
Go Baggers

 

[marty36]

Do you honestly think that Bryce Gibbs is just a very good player and in a team environment you have at the Crows would not produce elite footfall for at least 3 to 4 years?
Crows have gained plenty from trading with the Baggers in the last few years, it's time to be a little magnanimous.

We both know both symbolically, the missed father and son etc ... and practical terms what Bryce would bring to the Crows.
The ball is in Adeliade's court, I think a good deal for all will get done Monday or Tuesday Bryce is in a bit of a bind and he's too big a fish to let go.
Go Baggers

I don't, I think let it go to the last 5 minutes if it doesn't happen we move on, it would be great to get him but not if we have to give up the suggested trades.

 

[Theo X]

Crows have gained plenty from trading with the Baggers in the last few years, it's time to be a little magnanimous.

What have they gained? Troy Menzel who's languishing in the SANFL? Betts was not a trade. Who are the others, you'd know better.
Kerridge was a great cheap gift to you from the Crows, time to be magnanimous.

 

[MightyDons4]

13 & Lyons for Gibbs is a fair trade for both parties.

 

[Navara79]

13 & Lyons for Gibbs is a fair trade for both parties.

For the millionth time. Carlton doesn't want Lyons.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What have they gained? Troy Menzel who's languishing in the SANFL? Betts was not a trade. Who are the others, you'd know better.
Kerridge was a great cheap gift to you from the Crows, time to be magnanimous.

They didn't want Kerridge and couldn't sign quick enough for Menzel who we all considered to be a great talent. Why he has seemingly stagnated I don't know.

Kerridge is a stop gap for us. Needs to be cleaner and smarter with the ball.

 

[The Facepainter]

I have read a lot of posts on this thread over the last few days and I think most have good opinions on what should happen.
Personally I think Bryce will end up a Crow and as a fan of his would wish him well after giving us 10 years service.
Once ego's are normally massaged deals can be done something will be finalised.

 

[King Elvis]

Kerridge is a good player - consistent and reliable; I doubt he'll be a star, but he could comfortably play 150 games.

Menzel could be a gun - or he could be a complete bust.

I think that was a reasonable trade (did we give anymore; pick 28 perhaps?); apparently you instigated it, and we went for the gamble.

Do you honestly think that Bryce Gibbs is just a very good player and in a team environment you have at the Crows would not produce elite footfall for at least 3 to 4 years?

He hasn't played elite football in his career (and I'm not talking the odd excellent game; doing it consistently across a season) - even when you had Judd and Murphy next to him; why would that change now?

He's a very good player; but he's never been better than that - let alone elite (I would call Sloane a great player; the level under elite - but elite is Dangerfield, Fyfe etc).

I hope it's a fair deal - and I think pick 13 is that; I actually think that's a bit over.

To put it on context; you're asking for comparable value to J'OM - I'm comparing him to Mitchell.

 

[King Elvis]

They didn't want Kerridge and couldn't sign quick enough for Menzel who we all considered to be a great talent. Why he has seemingly stagnated I don't know.

Kerridge is a stop gap for us. Needs to be cleaner and smarter with the ball.

That's a little revisionist, isn't it? He's a great talent who was lazy and ill-disciplined, that you initiated the trade of?

And included our pick 28 - so presenting it as a straight swap is disingenuous.

Plenty of players have great talent - plenty of them go nowhere.

Menzel apparently came to us with a horrible fitness base, took some time adjusting, and then struggled with concussion and injuries.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

That's a little revisionist, isn't it? He's a great talent who was lazy and ill-disciplined, that you initiated the trade of?

And included our pick 28 - so presenting it as a straight swap is disingenuous.

Plenty of players have great talent - plenty of them go nowhere.

Menzel apparently came to us with a horrible fitness base, took some time adjusting, and then struggled with concussion and injuries.

Wait a second. Did you see the post I responded to?

I never said it was a straight swap. Crows were thrilled to get him and your board did a happy dance when it happened.

 

[SickQwon]

For Bryce to have more BnF's he would've had to be better than Judd. Not exactly an easy feat...

 

[MightyDons4]

For the millionth time. Carlton doesn't want Lyons.

Lyons would be a starting midfielder at Carlton.

Even pick 13 is fair for Gibbs, Lyons is a bonus.

 

[bmaurizio]

Kerridge is a good player - consistent and reliable; I doubt he'll be a star, but he could comfortably play 150 games.

Menzel could be a gun - or he could be a complete bust.

I think that was a reasonable trade (did we give anymore; pick 28 perhaps?); apparently you instigated it, and we went for the gamble.



He hasn't played elite football in his career (and I'm not talking the odd excellent game; doing it consistently across a season) - even when you had Judd and Murphy next to him; why would that change now?

He's a very good player; but he's never been better than that - let alone elite (I would call Sloane a great player; the level under elite - but elite is Dangerfield, Fyfe etc).

I hope it's a fair deal - and I think pick 13 is that; I actually think that's a bit over.

To put it on context; you're asking for comparable value to J'OM - I'm comparing him to Mitchell.

Your comparison to Tom Mitchell's is some what off the mark , if Tom had the kicking and distribution skills of Gibbs he too would be elite.
In a different team environment Gibbs skill will shine.
Even so , Tom Mitchell was traded at pick 14 and he was uncontracted
So how can Bryce Gibbs value be pick 13 ?

 

[Navara79]

Lyons would be a starting midfielder at Carlton.

Even pick 13 is fair for Gibbs, Lyons is a bonus.

If he is that good, why haven't we done the deal yet? If he is that good why doesn't Adelaide keep him?
Circles and all that.....

 

[Theo X]

if Tom had the kicking and distribution skills of Gibbs he too would be elite.

If Gibbs was able to win a contested ball he'd be elite. But he can't and he isn't.

 

[Navara79]

If Gibbs was able to win a contested ball he'd be elite. But he can't and he isn't.

He averages 8 a game over his career. That not bad for for a bloke who can't get contested ball

 

[TheHunterCripps]

Our low offer to Lyons is due to our list situation. He has larger offers from other clubs in front of him but wants to stay in Adelaide. Our situation doesn't define his value on the open market. He's a more than handy player, but certainly no Rockliff. But it was posted on our board from a Carlton poster that your club had turned down Rocky for a 2nd rounder. Which effectively values him not disimilarly to Lyons. Could be bullshit though, been plenty around.

What a load of rubbish.

There is one objective way to see how a club values a player, and that is by the salary they are willing to offer.

Your club is offering him well below the average AFL player wage of 300K. That means your club rates him well below average.

 

[gandaal]

If Gibbs was able to win a contested ball he'd be elite. But he can't and he isn't.

He averages 8 a game over his career. That not bad for for a bloke who can't get contested ball

LOL

 

[Jeremias]

He averages 8 a game over his career. That not bad for for a bloke who can't get contested ball

LOL

Funnily enough, it's not the first time Theo has pulled out that gem. It became pretty clear a while back that he hasn't watched Gibbs for a couple of years now.

 

[TheHunterCripps]

Lyons would be a starting midfielder at Carlton.

Even pick 13 is fair for Gibbs, Lyons is a bonus.

Doesn't matter.

The only reason for trading Gibbs (contracted) is to find players who will be part of our next premiership team. Lyons is not that player.

Adelaide have decided that Lyons is not part of their next premiership team by wanting him out / offering him below market wages.

 

[Navara79]

Funnily enough, it's not the first time Theo has pulled out that gem. It became pretty clear a while back that he hasn't watched Gibbs for a couple of years now.

Theo does remind me of the cab driver from the 12th man....

 

[philthy05]

What's the hold up? What are Carlton asking for ? Could understand them not wanting Lyons. They really need to move away from fringe types and have a crack at introducing quality players, even if that means gambling say pick 28 may not turn out.

Pick 13 and a pick under 30? Adelaide trade their 2nd and a player to move their 2nd rounder earlier? 2017 2nd rounder with the pick 13?

Are Carlton looking for something to satisfy gws for Pickett and marchbank. Would pick 13 and a second from Adelaide do that ?