Building a Premiership: The Hawthorn Model

[its_all_good1243]

A mate of mine was explaining the way Hawthorn modelled their premiership by drawing up a team sheet and then asking the question, will this player be part of our next premiership?

I believe Hardwick has done the exact same thing and what we are seeing right now is all players (with the exception of Cuz, Simmo & Richo) who were not contracted and not part of the premiership model being traded away or delisted. We will see the exact same thing next year as more players who are not part of the plan come out of contract.

Right now I think our next premiership team looks like this...

FB= Farmer (pick 49), Thursfield (Rookie), BP X
HB= Rance (pick 18), Post (pick 26),HB X
C= Tambling (pick 4), Martin (pick 3), Collins (pick 73)
HF= Connors (pick 58), CHF X, Riewoldt (pick 13)
FF= Morton (FS pick 44), FF X, FP X
Ruck= Vickery (pick 8) Deledio (pick 1), Cotchin (pick 2)

IC= Nahas (Rookie), Foley (Rookie), Mid X, Ruck X

This team requires a quality BP, HB Flanker, CHF, FF, A grade crumbing FP, quality back up ruck and 1 more A grade mid.

It also requires the commitment and dedication of Farmer, Collins, Connors and Nahas to get the most out of their bodies and abilities. It will take at least 3 years for Post to be holding down CHB and Vickery the Ruck. By that stage the midfield will be A Grade with Vickery (pick 8) delivering to picks 1 (deledio), 2 (cotchin), 3 (hopefully martin), 4 Tambling, Foley and 1 more A grader picked up either with our second rounder this year or first round next year.

The only players unlucky to be left out from my list are McGuane who I think we will trade to the Gold Coast as we search for another early pick, Thomson as I think he has the potential but I can not put on this list until he shows something injury free next year and Edwards who I can't find a spot for because taking a look at the recent premiership teams have not had someone of his size or lack of tackling ability.

From a premiership model perspective I think we have at least for the first time in a long time got a core group of players who are capable of delivering success, the major problem is that we still lack approx 8 quality players from the best 22 and our depth is shockingly exposed. Our second tier players are hopeless in comparison to those at other clubs and this is where our rebuild needs to come into effect. We need to have a B+ grade back up for every position and right now we are filling in with C and D Grade AFL players.

What do others think??



What do others think?

 

[Spagman]

I think that after two B&F's in a row, that Deledio should be made skipper and given more longer term responsibilities. He really needs to step up and lead the midfield by example. He'd be the tigers most experienced mid fielder now wouldn't he? (aside from Cousins).

Lids for skipper, Cousins for vice-skipper i say.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Connors and Farmer...lucky to be on AFL lists let alone in a premiership team.

Martin isn't even playing for us yet.

Nahas, as much as I like him, will probably be found out this year.

There are very few players on our list who I would back to make the geelong best 22. In fact, deledio is about the only player atm that would. Cotchin would find it difficult to crack the midfield at the cattery.

Perhaps Richo would still get a birth as a KPF there. Maybe Riewoldt...more because they are weak in terms of tall forwards than the fact that he would deserve to be there. Other than that, none of our boys would have a chance.

 

[coke_zero]

we will never get a team of 22 super stars. thats where players like Polo, Edwards and Gus come in. they wont dominate but can play good footy a fill a hole.

 

[Spluff]

Connors and Farmer...lucky to be on AFL lists let alone in a premiership team.

Martin isn't even playing for us yet.

Nahas, as much as I like him, will probably be found out this year.

There are very few players on our list who I would back to make the geelong best 22. In fact, deledio is about the only player atm that would. Cotchin would find it difficult to crack the midfield at the cattery.

Perhaps Richo would still get a birth as a KPF there. Maybe Riewoldt...more because they are weak in terms of tall forwards than the fact that he would deserve to be there. Other than that, none of our boys would have a chance.

Richo, Riewoldt, Cousins, Nahas, Foley, Cotchin, Newman would all make it in as well. Probably Tambling too.

Richo, Riewoldt > Hawkins, Mooney
Nahas, Cousins > Stokes, Varcoe
Cotchin, Foley > Corey, Kelly (though they wouldn't push them out, they'd probably just move them)
Newman > Hunt/Harley
Tambling > Wojcinski

It's not our top end talent that is the problem, it is the players after the 10 best who let us down.

 

[Almighty tigers]

polo edwards hislop thomson and graham all in and post as CHF and connors out and newman should still have a spot

 

[folester41]

not sure on farmer, collins, connors, nahas, rance, thursfield from those mentined

so we still need atleast 10 quality players to get anywhere

 

[Foley u Legend]

Connors and Farmer...lucky to be on AFL lists let alone in a premiership team.

Martin isn't even playing for us yet.

Nahas, as much as I like him, will probably be found out this year.

There are very few players on our list who I would back to make the geelong best 22. In fact, deledio is about the only player atm that would. Cotchin would find it difficult to crack the midfield at the cattery.

Perhaps Richo would still get a birth as a KPF there. Maybe Riewoldt...more because they are weak in terms of tall forwards than the fact that he would deserve to be there. Other than that, none of our boys would have a chance.

Thats why i reckon we should recruit Rhan Hooper in either the pre-season or rookie draft, as his only problem was off the field and he was great on. Also we should pick up another crumber with one of our 3rd or 4th round draft picks

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Honestly I can't believe this thread, any side who hasn't won the flag should be looking at their list and removing any they thought weren't going to play in their next premiership.
Connors being premiership material is a long way from where the bloke currently is, lucky to be still on an AFL list and unable to secure a spot in our 09 side despite being on the list for more than enough time.

 

[Spluff]

Honestly I can't believe this thread, any side who hasn't won the flag should be looking at their list and removing any they thought weren't going to play in their next premiership.
Connors being premiership material is a long way from where the bloke currently is, lucky to be still on an AFL list and unable to secure a spot in our 09 side despite being on the list for more than enough time.

Considering the coaching Connors has had to work with, I'm not surprised he hasn't come on. Wallace has jerked him around, promising a run of games with him in the midfield, and then dropping him back to Coburg after the whole team turned in an insipid performance, and he was far from the worst - not to mention Connors didn't get any time in the midfield where he was promised time.

 

[Crumden]

There are very few players on our list who I would back to make the geelong best 22. In fact, deledio is about the only player atm that would. Cotchin would find it difficult to crack the midfield at the cattery.
.

I never buy this argument. A front runner like Varcoe for instance would struggle to get a kick at Richmond. The difference is that the top teams have 3 or 4 of these types that are swpet along with the better players, whereas the bottom teams have 8-10 and not enough better palyers to bring them into the game.

 

[tugga]

I never buy this argument. A front runner like Varcoe for instance would struggle to get a kick at Richmond. The difference is that the top teams have 3 or 4 of these types that are swpet along with the better players, whereas the bottom teams have 8-10 and not enough better palyers to bring them into the game.

Agree.
Would Raph Clarke get a game for us? I'd spew if he did.
Steven King?
Gardiner?
Both were terrible inthe 2nd half of the season.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

I think that after two B&F's in a row, that Deledio should be made skipper and given more longer term responsibilities. He really needs to step up and lead the midfield by example. He'd be the tigers most experienced mid fielder now wouldn't he? (aside from Cousins).

Lids for skipper, Cousins for vice-skipper i say.

Go to the AFL Richmond Website and watch Deledio's Jack Dyer Medal acceptance speech. It will take you 2 minutes to realise that Brett Deledio will never Captain the Richmond football club.

Not unless he has a labotomy!

 

[Steven Tyler]

Richo, Riewoldt, Cousins, Nahas, Foley, Cotchin, Newman would all make it in as well. Probably Tambling too.

Richo, Riewoldt > Hawkins, Mooney
Nahas, Cousins > Stokes, Varcoe
Cotchin, Foley > Corey, Kelly (though they wouldn't push them out, they'd probably just move them)
Newman > Hunt/Harley
Tambling > Wojcinski

It's not our top end talent that is the problem, it is the players after the 10 best who let us down.

Sorry, couldn't help myself, tell me your joking!

 

[folester41]

individually any of those players mentioned would make it in to the geelong team, but as a group no chance. and i wouldnt say cotchin and foley are better than corey and kelly.

 

[Madtiger2006]

I'd rather stick with Mcguane than a draft pick

 

[Spluff]

individually any of those players mentioned would make it in to the geelong team, but as a group no chance. and i wouldnt say cotchin and foley are better than corey and kelly.

I wouldn't say they are better per se, but that they are more valuable to that specific lineup. Foley would inject a lot of pace into their lineup which they could use, and cotchin would provide the precise kicking skills that corey lacks.

 

[_RT_]

While I don't mind the plan the OP throws up, I have to chuckle at some of the thoughts posted in here. I'm all for supporting the players we have on our list and pumping up their tyres but to suggest that upto 8 of our players could crack a spot in the Cats best 22 is delusional. As mentioned Deledio would be about the only one based on current form and even then he wouldn't walk into their midfield, but would probably be on a flank.

 

[CoggaRules]

**** the Hawthorn model. They fluked the ****er and now its "the model"? Like FFS, they were pinching themsleves, thinking is this for real, and then we get mugs here who suggest that they sat down and said who will be a part of our premisership window? That ****ing window wasnt suppose to happen when it did fools. They got there by default and caght the cats on a bad day for accuracy. If the cats were on target the game was over at big break...as for clarko he will be sacked before to long he wasnt under pressure before they won that flag, because no one expected it....the suck cant handle pressure...and when its on, he comes out and talks BS like we have witnessed.

 

[Spluff]

While I don't mind the plan the OP throws up, I have to chuckle at some of the thoughts posted in here. I'm all for supporting the players we have on our list and pumping up their tyres but to suggest that upto 8 of our players could crack a spot in the Cats best 22 is delusional. As mentioned Deledio would be about the only one based on current form and even then he wouldn't walk into their midfield, but would probably be on a flank.

Which one of those players aren't better than their aforementioned counterparts in the Geelong 22?

 

[Madtiger2006]

FB= Farmer (pick 49), Thursfield (Rookie), BP X
HB= Rance (pick 18), Post (pick 26),HB X
C= Tambling (pick 4), Martin (pick 3), Collins (pick 73)
HF= Connors (pick 58), CHF X, Riewoldt (pick 13)
FF= Morton (FS pick 44), FF X, FP X
Ruck= Vickery (pick 8) Deledio (pick 1), Cotchin (pick 2)

IC= Nahas (Rookie), Foley (Rookie), Mid X, Ruck X

Why would we trade Mcguane when we need him? I also have faith in Graham and Edwards too. I have a feeling that Gourdis will be getting games a bit next season either as a forward or back. What about Newman? He probably has another 5 years left

 

[_RT_]

Which one of those players aren't better than their aforementioned counterparts in the Geelong 22?

IMO, on current form, none of them are better. That includes Cousins.

 

[Spluff]

IMO, on current form, none of them are better. That includes Cousins.

You can't seriously tell me Wojcinski who sprays half his kicks under no pressure is better than Tambling, or that Stokes or Varcoe have been more effective than Nahas (or even Cousins in the forwardline)?

 

[_RT_]

You can't seriously tell me Wojcinski who sprays half his kicks under no pressure is better than Tambling, or that Stokes or Varcoe have been more effective than Nahas (or even Cousins in the forwardline)?

Wojcinski had a better disposal efficiency % than Tambling, 80-72%. Wojo averaged 5 possies less but spent 10mins less per game on the ground than Tambling in 09.

Stokes 19 games this year for 29 goals and laid 65 tackles. Varcoe 22 goals and 91 tackles. In comparison Nahas 21 goals & 92 tackles. I'd still take both Geelong players as they have better disposal effciency.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Richo, Riewoldt, Cousins, Nahas, Foley, Cotchin, Newman would all make it in as well. Probably Tambling too.

Richo, Riewoldt > Hawkins, Mooney
Nahas, Cousins > Stokes, Varcoe
Cotchin, Foley > Corey, Kelly (though they wouldn't push them out, they'd probably just move them)
Newman > Hunt/Harley
Tambling > Wojcinski

It's not our top end talent that is the problem, it is the players after the 10 best who let us down.

Richo is slightly ahead of Mooney on ability, but he has 1 year left MAX, Mooney has about 3. And given the way Geelong plays, I think they'd pick Mooney ahead of Richo. Hawkins is showing signs of fullfilling his talent, Riewoldt went backwards this year and needs to work on his kicking if he is to be anymore than a 3rd tall.

Nahas/Cousins vs Stokes/Varcoe? Nahas basically = 0...one decent (first) year does not a career make. Besides, do you really think a guy with his frame would make the Geelong 22? As for Cousins, where would you play him? He'd be way down the pecking order in the mids. A fully fit Geelong has Stokes and Varcoe on the fringe so comparing them to Cousins and Nahas isn't really doing Cousins and Nahas any favours anyway, with regards to them making geelongs 22

Cotchin/Foley vs Corey/Kelly? Far out do you have a different pair of rose coloured glasses for every day of the year? Besides...comparing our 2nd and 3rd best midfielders respectively to Corey/Kelly, who are probably 5th/6th best at geelong...its kind of sad isn't it? Foley might sneak into Geelong, but not in Corey/Kelly's spot...possibly in byrnes' spot...but even then after his grand final performance, and his year in general, Byrnes really has impressed me. Wheareas Foley was ok, but injured most of the year.

Harley is a better leader than Newman and is taller...can't compare. Ditto Hunt...different position. Newman would be up against enright, mackie and milburn. As a player, he's not even fit to polish enright's boots. Tambling and Wojac? Different players once again. Comparing a rebounding defender in Wojac to a guy who is predominantly a midfielder...do you really think that Tambling would get into their midfield? A rotation of Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Kelly, Selwood and Chappy when he pushes through the midfield...the only person who would have a chance of cracking that midfield from the tigers is Deledio.