News Burning questions for 2012: Collingwood

[TradeDraft]

Will we get to see Jarrod Witts?
Even for a club renowned for the premature over-hyping of its young and relatively untried talent, the buzz in Magpie circles around Jarrod Witts is something special. His is the name on everyone's lips this pre-season.


In case you haven't heard, Witts is a 19-year-old giant who the Pies unearthed through the NSW scholarship scheme. He already stands at around 208cm and seems to still be growing. He's been likened, both in build and ability, to Fremantle's Aaron Sandilands.


Witts played a few games with the Collingwood reserves late last year, spending most of his time forward and managing to kick a few goals while looking every inch an AFL footballer.
He's too under-developed to be spending much time in the ruck at this stage, and there's no doubt that it will be years until we know whether he'll live up to his potential. But don't be surprised to see him get some game time as a forward – probably in the NAB Cup and maybe even during the season proper. If he does, just wait for the buzz in the crowd.

Are they poking Funs at Collingwood Supporters There?

http://www.bigpondsport.com/burning...ollingwood/tabid/91/newsid/83507/default.aspx

 

[Ed D]

Are they poking Funs at Collingwood Supporters There?

http://www.bigpondsport.com/burning...ollingwood/tabid/91/newsid/83507/default.aspx

I think there is a bit of prejudice against Pies fans saying the club is renowned for hyping up it's kids (really us fans are no different to any other club when it comes to young talent) but apart from that the article seems fine to me.

 

[Knightmare]

I hope we don't get to see Witts at AFL level in 2012. Hopefully he spends the next two years at VFL level working on his durability so that he can have a long, quality career. The value in Witts is his long term potential. Not production now. He is training the house down and the signs are good. But I hope we make him work for that position rather than just give it to him.

John Ceglar would be an alternative I'd be open to seeing this year as an alternative to Cameron Wood though or possibly Lachlan Keeffe if training for that no.2 ruck position.

 

[TradeDraft]

I hope we don't get to see Witts at AFL level in 2012. Hopefully he spends the next two years at VFL level working on his durability so that he can have a long, quality career.

John Ceglar would be an alternative I'd be open to seeing this year as an alternative to Cameron Wood though or possibly Lachlan Keeffe if training for that no.2 ruck position.

Witts can also get Injured in the VFL as well.

Ceglar would be a descent chance for AFL next season as I reckon he could do well as 2nd Ruck

 

[rustyg70]

I just hope we don't throw him to the wolves like we did to Josh Frasier.
He was supposed to be a star also but we played him too early in the ruck which is the wrong position for any young inexperienced player.

 

[Quicky]

In all honesty unless he improves a bunch he isn't ready for a senior gig. The hypes nice but thats all it is. His ruck work has a looooong way to go. McNamara and Ceglar are both ahead of him in this aspect of the game. He is too immobile for a permanent spot up forward. I think we will see Witts spend another season in the twos and he'd be doing really well to crack one senior game in the AFL. We may see him McNamara style in the NAB though which would be interesting.

 

[TradeDraft]

In all honesty unless he improves a bunch he isn't ready for a senior gig. The hypes nice but thats all it is. His ruck work has a looooong way to go. McNamara and Ceglar are both ahead of him in this aspect of the game. He is too immobile for a permanent spot up forward. I think we will see Witts spend another season in the twos and he'd be doing really well to crack one senior game in the AFL. We may see him McNamara style in the NAB though which would be interesting.

Well He Improved Heaps last Season and I would not Rule out a Few AFL Games but it would be like 5 Games at the Very Most.

I think he is Quite Mobile

 

[Quicky]

He came in and competed well in the VFL. He only played four games and didn't have any games at a level of competetion to make an accurate comparison to them. At least in terms of saying he improved heaps. It would be wiser to make that judgment this year based off last seasons games. I think it will be a big effort just to see how he carries on with a full season of VFL footy. The hype doesn't justify the reality of the situation which gets conveniently reduced to background noise in the wake of its "rabble".

 

[Ed D]

Considering Witts is a year older than most first year players and has a big body already I'm not too concerned if he plays a few games this season. It's only a problem if he's being played because of a shortage of players and he starts getting knocks or puts his body under too much stress. If he's getting games because the club is developing him it's a good thing.

 

[Quicky]

Considering Witts is a year older than most first year players and has a big body already I'm not too concerned if he plays a few games this season. It's only a problem if he's being played because of a shortage of players and he starts getting kocks or puts his body under too much stress. If he's getting games because the club is developing him it's a good thing.

Absolutely. If he's at the level play him. Be careful about it but play him. I question whether he is at the level though. He might have a year on most ruckman entering the system but it typically takes some time before the big boys settle into the game. And the ones that make it early on are usually the athletic types as opposed to the units. Fraser is an example. Naitanui another. How many brawlers have made it as ruckman in the current game as 19yo's?

 

[Swooop]

He has heaps of promise, no question, but he appeared like he had a bit fo developing to go from what he showed in the VFL last year.

The signs were very good for sure. He showed good mobility including below his knees and I recall one passgae where he ran back with the flight of the ball, so he certainly didn't appear to lack cohunas.

But his bodywork was raw and to me, it appeared he didn't always know where he was meant to be, which is very understandable for a kid who's only played a handful of games.

One thing we know for sure is that he is a mega prospect and that the coaches will put no end of work into him.

He also looked a kid who was very eager to listen and learn, and appeared a very humble, sensible and nice guy.

All in all, I'm sure he'll do very well, but will need to be given time as others above have said.

 

[Scodog10]

I'd like to provide my own burning question for 2012, where is Harry O'Brien at?

We all know what he's capable of at his best, but his 2011 was, in a word, indifferent. He played 24 of a possible 26 games in 2011 so injury shouldn't be used as a reason. The most concerning thing was that the turning point seemed to be relatively early in the season when Crameri got ahold of him both physically and mentally on ANZAC day, so he had plenty of opportunity from there to turn things around.

I think our best defensive structure in 2012 should play out similar to Geelong's which I am a massive fan of, so it would look like this:

Reid = Taylor (rebounder who takes plenty of marks from opposition kicks)
Brown = Lonergan (dour stopper) and
Tarrant = Scarlett (capable of playing on whomever he is needed to).

That leaves us with 3 other permanent defenders and at this point in time I have both Toovey and Shaw ahead of H and Maxi picks himself as captain. That leaves us with O'Brien, Goldy and Clarke fighting over what I think should be a swingman position or possibly starting as the substitute. Shaw could potentially play a role further upfield this year, but I believe he does his best work in defence.

I realise a percentage of posters may not agree with me on this and I want to make it very clear that I want H back at his best because he's a weapon for us when he's at the top of his game. But if we see the 2011 version of him in 2012 I don't think Buck's will hesitate to swing the axe.....

 

[Ed D]

I'd like to provide my own burning question for 2012, where is Harry O'Brien at?

We all know what he's capable of at his best, but his 2011 was, in a word, indifferent. He played 24 of a possible 26 games in 2011 so injury shouldn't be used as a reason. The most concerning thing was that the turning point seemed to be relatively early in the season when Crameri got ahold of him both physically and mentally on ANZAC day, so he had plenty of opportunity from there to turn things around.

I think our best defensive structure in 2012 should play out similar to Geelong's which I am a massive fan of, so it would look like this:

Reid = Taylor (rebounder who takes plenty of marks from opposition kicks)
Brown = Lonergan (dour stopper) and
Tarrant = Scarlett (capable of playing on whomever he is needed to).

That leaves us with 3 other permanent defenders and at this point in time I have both Toovey and Shaw ahead of H and Maxi picks himself as captain. That leaves us with O'Brien, Goldy and Clarke fighting over what I think should be a swingman position or possibly starting as the substitute. Shaw could potentially play a role further upfield this year, but I believe he does his best work in defence.

I realise a percentage of posters may not agree with me on this and I want to make it very clear that I want H back at his best because he's a weapon for us when he's at the top of his game. But if we see the 2011 version of him in 2012 I don't think Buck's will hesitate to swing the axe.....

I was a little worried with how Harry was playing last year until I read an article where either he or Malthouse said that he was being instructed to play 5m in front of his oponent to cover space and to go 3rd man up in marking contests. After I read that it made a lot of sense as to why Harry had been playing like he had, and why so many times he was caught out when the ball was kicked over his head and his opponent was there by himself. I think some of that had to do with Maxwell not being 100% (or even playing) so he was covering his role.

So I think a lot of it comes down to the role that he's being given. If he's given a more one on one defensive role with less team responsibility I think he'd play it well and it'd suit him a lot more. He's a good defender and his main asset is running off his opponent. Playing 3rd man up and loose off his opponent didn't quite work for him.

So in saying all that I don't think he struggled last year, I just think the instructions for him weren't a good match. He's still important to the team and a required player.

 

[Swooop]

Great post Scodog, Harry did have some indifferent games.

With Nate back this year and very likely to slot back there, there will be a spill of one.

Personally, I can't wait to see how Bucks decides to go with a number of players, whcih includes Harry.

It may be that Shaw comes up to the wing possibly.

You even wonder if one of the three big backs ( Reid, Taz, or Nate) could be trialled up forward, with perhaps Dawes more in a Leroy role.

Who knows, but you'd think there'll be one or two shocks with regards to Bucks' thinking with game plan, positional changes and personnel choices.

 

[Ed D]

Talking about defenders I think we were lucky to get a full season out of Tarrant in 2011. I don't think it should be expected that he plays every game in 2012, especially as he turns 32 at the end of the season.

 

[TradeDraft]

Talking about defenders I think we were lucky to get a full season out of Tarrant in 2011. I don't think it should be expected that he plays every game in 2012, especially as he turns 32 at the end of the season.

With N Brown Back I doubt Tarrant would be the Number 1 Choice at FV.

I see Tarrant more of a Utility Tall

 

[Knightmare]

I'd like to provide my own burning question for 2012, where is Harry O'Brien at?

We all know what he's capable of at his best, but his 2011 was, in a word, indifferent. He played 24 of a possible 26 games in 2011 so injury shouldn't be used as a reason. The most concerning thing was that the turning point seemed to be relatively early in the season when Crameri got ahold of him both physically and mentally on ANZAC day, so he had plenty of opportunity from there to turn things around.

I think our best defensive structure in 2012 should play out similar to Geelong's which I am a massive fan of, so it would look like this:

Reid = Taylor (rebounder who takes plenty of marks from opposition kicks)
Brown = Lonergan (dour stopper) and
Tarrant = Scarlett (capable of playing on whomever he is needed to).

That leaves us with 3 other permanent defenders and at this point in time I have both Toovey and Shaw ahead of H and Maxi picks himself as captain. That leaves us with O'Brien, Goldy and Clarke fighting over what I think should be a swingman position or possibly starting as the substitute. Shaw could potentially play a role further upfield this year, but I believe he does his best work in defence.

I realise a percentage of posters may not agree with me on this and I want to make it very clear that I want H back at his best because he's a weapon for us when he's at the top of his game. But if we see the 2011 version of him in 2012 I don't think Buck's will hesitate to swing the axe.....

Good post.

Harry O'Brien is one of the players I really have questions over and I very much agree with your view on him.

Didak (The guy couldn't kick last year - after being an elite kick his entire career and just couldn't contribute in any meaningful way) + Wood (Will he ever improve or develop into more than a depth quality ruckman?) are the other two.


The conversation of whether Tarrant, Reid and N.Brown playing together I expect will come up allot this year. I'm not as sure with N.Brown as others are and having just come back from a major injury I don't see him getting straight back into his best footy.
With the way many teams use their resting ruckman as a forward these days I do think having 3 key defenders is entirely possible and with Tarrant's flexibility it is certainly possible to execute.

For me though it comes down to best 22 and who is performing. On last years form Shaw and Toovey are well ahead, Maxwell assuming healthy is an auto in, O'Brien while average at best last year will hopefully rebound with a stronger year and Clarke + Johnson will both be in the mix with probably one of the two in our best side.
With Buckley I don't see us so defensively loaded and probably a little more balanced with perhaps if anything more of a midfield focus if indeed there is one - so less extra man behind the ball.

 

[Ed D]

The conversation of whether Tarrant, Reid and N.Brown playing together I expect will come up allot this year. I'm not as sure with N.Brown as others are and having just come back from a major injury I don't see him getting straight back into his best footy.

I recently read (forgotten which article) about how Nathan Brown might not play in the NAB Cup as he's still getting himself right, so for all we know he might miss the start of the season too.

 

[ksardog]

would like to see Witts [ if his form is good in vfl ] get opportunities against the likes of Gold Coast, GWS and Port as a forward/ruck role while giving Cloke and Dawes rests during the year just to get a taste of it while also providing our 2 gun forwards with regular freshen ups throughout the year.
As for having Tarrant,Reid and Brown in our backline i personally think it will be great, Taz and Brown as our pure shout down key defenders allowong Reid even more freedom with his booming kicks. With Obrien, Shaw, Johnson and Clarke back i think our balance is near perfect.

 

[daics cousin]

They should have give Wood the number one mantle to see what he has got and only play Jolly intermitently through the year.

That way Jolly can stay as fit as possible then unleash him during the finals with Wood as his back up.

Keefe must learn to play the leigh brown role then nuture Witts,Ceglar and maybe Jackson Paine to play forward roles till they develop.These three should play in the reserves and only get senior time if we get injuries otherwise let them develop naturally.

The 2 main ruck options this year Wood and Jolly only.

 

[cleomenes]

The certainty expressed over the inclusion of Nathan Brown is a surprise. His 2010 grand finals were outstanding, but in many of his other games he has been prone to panic in disposing of the ball. I have yet to be convinced that he is the answer here long term.
Posters reminding us that a resting ruckman will often have to be covered are correct. There will not always be two tall forwards at the same time however.
To me, the burning question is, will our disposal out of the centre to the forwards improve? That was the weakness that developed as 2011 progressed.

 

[entourage]

I get your point about about Brown, however, who would you suggest is the long term answer? At this stage, and his age, he is our best bet by a fair way i would've thought.

 

[kevind]

Good post.

Harry O'Brien is one of the players I really have questions over and I very much agree with your view on him.

Didak (The guy couldn't kick last year - after being an elite kick his entire career and just couldn't contribute in any meaningful way) + Wood (Will he ever improve or develop into more than a depth quality ruckman?) are the other two.


The conversation of whether Tarrant, Reid and N.Brown playing together I expect will come up allot this year. I'm not as sure with N.Brown as others are and having just come back from a major injury I don't see him getting straight back into his best footy.
With the way many teams use their resting ruckman as a forward these days I do think having 3 key defenders is entirely possible and with Tarrant's flexibility it is certainly possible to execute.

For me though it comes down to best 22 and who is performing. On last years form Shaw and Toovey are well ahead, Maxwell assuming healthy is an auto in, O'Brien while average at best last year will hopefully rebound with a stronger year and Clarke + Johnson will both be in the mix with probably one of the two in our best side.
With Buckley I don't see us so defensively loaded and probably a little more balanced with perhaps if anything more of a midfield focus if indeed there is one - so less extra man behind the ball.

Agree with most of your post. WE have several players with question marks going into the season and very little obvious depth to replace them . In addition to your list , I would also add Dawes and Macaffer. Are they any better than the ordinary footballers they looked like last year? Dawes in particular needs to lift his paltry goal average.

Another thing we will miss more than many posters seem to think is Leigh Brown's aggression and physicality. We have no player on the list that can provide that touch of mongrel. His hit on Lewis in the Prelim was a real turning point in that game.

Another player that many posters seem to want on the outer is Ben Johnson. I tend to think that, despite the dependence on the left foot, he adds a strong body , pace and experience that should make him regular in 22.

Will we play Brown, Tarrant and Reid all in the one backline? Well Brown has a long journey back, so it may be a irrelevant. If they are necessay match ups eg against WCE using Kennedy, Darling and Lynch,then fine. We should also be flexible enough to be able to also use one of them up forward. AS all 3 are capable of playing key forward.

 

[DWil6]

If people aren't convinced Brown will be a solid KPD then I can't believe anyone would be convinced he'll be a solid forward. Has shown infinitely more as a back in his career thus far.

 

[DWil6]

Double post