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List Mgmt. Cam McCarthy Requests Trade to WA
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I hope a sack of potatoes comes our way containing the likes of another Lachie Neale and Cam Sutcliffe.
Edit:you're quite a gunslinger E Shed. Beat me to it.
freo84
Norm Smith Medallist
What he said!
High Draft picks are over rated.
How many high draft picks are currently in the side?
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I think we should trade away all our first round picks, from now until eternity. Don't need those spuds clogging up our list.
dimesdimesdimes
Senior List
weve def got a few bargains in the draft in recent years, but they dont out weigh the amount of duds
if Bondy and co draft well over the next 2 years then i guess the McCarthy deal is worth it, provided he performs
kickett puches read
Rookie
- Jun 11, 2012
- 49
- 32
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Wasn't Mundy a first rounder? Sheridan was as well
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dimesdimesdimes
Senior List
The reason we are in this situation ( no key forwards ) is our own fault , picking people like jayden pitt and josh simpson in recent times with the first pick instead of a key forward when it was super obvious we only had pav. Wish they would have acted sooner, with the midfield we have , we couldve already won a couple flags with some support for Pav
freo84
Norm Smith Medallist
Drafting isn't the only way to get KPP's. We have tried trading and free agency to lure them. Look at the Hawks list. Most of their talls are via trades and free agency. Getting McCarthy will go a long way to rectifying some of the drafting mistakes.
BUT there are bargins like Alex Pearce just waiting for us later in the draft.
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- Jun 30, 2011
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High picks are most certainly not over rated, the statistics are unarguable. What recruiters do over-rate are the value of picks in some bands with respect to others. For instance low first round picks, above say 12 to 14 become a bit speculative in that it starts to become likely that you'll pick someone who won't make the grade, whereas with top 10 picks its hard to miss (unless you're Melbourne). That's why the academy points system would rank Freo's pick 18 this year and a hypothetical pick 15 next year as worth pick 5.
Also once you get much past pick 30 or 40 the chances of landing an AFL quality player are pretty much the same, which makes all that 3rd and 4th round pick swaps as part of trades pretty pointless.
As for the current side, prior to retirements and delistings, 14 of the senior list were top 30 picks and at least half of our 'best' players are first round, or high second round, picks. Pav, Fyfe, Mundy, Macca, Ballas. Most sides would probably have higher ratios than this, we're the exception the proves the rule (as a consequence of such terrible drafting between 2001 and 2007, a good dose of luck, as well as skill, in our high and rookie picks. Plus the fact that since we have been broadly successful since 2010 we haven't had a top ten pick since 2009 (I.E 'failures' with your first pick become more likely.)
Wizard
Brownlow Medallist
19 for mundy, 2nd round.
kickett puches read
Rookie
- Jun 11, 2012
- 49
- 32
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Ah ok... I think he was our first pick that year, but not a first rounder obviously... I know we have had a lot of guys high second rounders I.e balla, Fyfe, Suban
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Sheridan was technically a first round but actually pick 20 because of free agency compo etc. etc.
So yes our <20 picks on the list were Hill, Pav, McPharlin and Mora - we could lose 3/4 of those this year. It is significant if you get top 15 especially picks into your team.
So yes our <20 picks on the list were Hill, Pav, McPharlin and Mora - we could lose 3/4 of those this year. It is significant if you get top 15 especially picks into your team.
freo84
Norm Smith Medallist
I guess that's why I view high picks as overrated because our staff have done an amazing job of finding talent with later picks.
To me it is a very strange view that some here seem to think we are risking sabotaging our future by trading two first round picks for McCarthy. Statistically if we were to gain one star player from two latish first round picks we would be doing better than average. Most drafts produce only a handful of star players in picks ranging from 15-25. Statiscally I think if you can guarantee one star with two picks in that range you are doing much better than average.
If we can trade two first rounders and one second round for McCarthy and Bennell we are definitely setting up our future as both have an absolute ton of football ahead of them.
If we can trade two first rounders and one second round for McCarthy and Bennell we are definitely setting up our future as both have an absolute ton of football ahead of them.
Benefits to GWS;
Trade
- salary cap space. The chief reason they will lose players now and in the future is that highly rated players need to be paid at market rates.
- points to draft Academy recruits (including a highly rated tall forward). Losing "home sick" players for home grown players is a winning long term strategy, and while McCarthy is not a fresh recruit he has only been developing for 2 years as opposed to being an established best 22 player. He also lingers at a likely 3rd KPP, a position they have options for in Stewart and Thomlinson.
- list space - they do need to delist players with a list reduction
- removes a potentially disgruntled player from the list
- demonstrates a willingness to deal when the trade is fair; sure this is debatable but 2 first round picks must be fairly close to market value.
Don't trade
- demonstrates a willingness to play hardball to both players and rival clubs.
- gives them the opportunity to show him that he is a genuine part of their plans and a best 22 player for them, not a depth player in case eg Patton is injured.
- potential to get an even higher price in the future should McCarthy demonstrate that he is a genuine 1st or 2nd KPF as opposed to 3rd - depth.
Risks
Trade
- McCarthy becomes a star of the competition playing to the maximum of his demonstrated ceiling.
- drafting is risky and potentially the Academy kids don't work out.
Don't trade
- a disgruntled player has a white ant effect within the squad.
- they are under pressure to select him regardless of other options and form.
- if they do not select him due to good form and fitness of Patton and Cameron then potentially he may lose trade value.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
Trade
- salary cap space. The chief reason they will lose players now and in the future is that highly rated players need to be paid at market rates.
- points to draft Academy recruits (including a highly rated tall forward). Losing "home sick" players for home grown players is a winning long term strategy, and while McCarthy is not a fresh recruit he has only been developing for 2 years as opposed to being an established best 22 player. He also lingers at a likely 3rd KPP, a position they have options for in Stewart and Thomlinson.
- list space - they do need to delist players with a list reduction
- removes a potentially disgruntled player from the list
- demonstrates a willingness to deal when the trade is fair; sure this is debatable but 2 first round picks must be fairly close to market value.
Don't trade
- demonstrates a willingness to play hardball to both players and rival clubs.
- gives them the opportunity to show him that he is a genuine part of their plans and a best 22 player for them, not a depth player in case eg Patton is injured.
- potential to get an even higher price in the future should McCarthy demonstrate that he is a genuine 1st or 2nd KPF as opposed to 3rd - depth.
Risks
Trade
- McCarthy becomes a star of the competition playing to the maximum of his demonstrated ceiling.
- drafting is risky and potentially the Academy kids don't work out.
Don't trade
- a disgruntled player has a white ant effect within the squad.
- they are under pressure to select him regardless of other options and form.
- if they do not select him due to good form and fitness of Patton and Cameron then potentially he may lose trade value.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
With KPPs early draft picks seem to be massively more successful than later picks. In addition, the difference in quality between MacPharlin and Dawson/Silvagni, or Pavlich and Taberner/Dawes/Casboult seems to be a chasm difficult to cross.
Agree with much of that, but the reality is McCarthy's contract for the next 2 seasons would be next to nothing. If he was on any sort of serious coin they would see some merit in cap space and the opportunity to retain others.
It's kind of reverse money ball for them. They would be losing a quality player who is also on low wages, a bit of a double blow.
- Jan 17, 2011
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Think Dennis has hung up the mic - announced earlier this year.
Why couldn't it be ****ing Bruce instead.
Here is media at its best...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-09/dockers-to-offer-two-firstround-picks-for-giant-mccarthy
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-09/dockers-could-seal-bennell-deal-early-next-week-says-manager
1st link has Colin Young (McCarthy Manager) stating freo would offer 2 x 1st round picks - no comment from freo staff
2nd link Colin Young (Bennell Manager) was not confident about McCarthy return home to Western Australia, acknowledging that the Giants have many decisions to make during the trade period.
Link 1 published 10:57am
Link 2 published 5:38pm
So in the space of 6 hrs or so freo has committed to giving 2 x 1st rounders away in a deal that will 100% happen. Then nek minit maybe thats not happening...
Gotta love trade week...
I hope we dont go after McCarthy too hard, not sure one season as a 2nd/3rd tall justifies paying overs to become freos number 1 forward... Aaron Black is a lot cheaper with similar output.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-09/dockers-to-offer-two-firstround-picks-for-giant-mccarthy
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-09/dockers-could-seal-bennell-deal-early-next-week-says-manager
1st link has Colin Young (McCarthy Manager) stating freo would offer 2 x 1st round picks - no comment from freo staff
2nd link Colin Young (Bennell Manager) was not confident about McCarthy return home to Western Australia, acknowledging that the Giants have many decisions to make during the trade period.
Link 1 published 10:57am
Link 2 published 5:38pm
So in the space of 6 hrs or so freo has committed to giving 2 x 1st rounders away in a deal that will 100% happen. Then nek minit maybe thats not happening...
Gotta love trade week...
I hope we dont go after McCarthy too hard, not sure one season as a 2nd/3rd tall justifies paying overs to become freos number 1 forward... Aaron Black is a lot cheaper with similar output.
End of 2016.
Black is 26 next year. McCarthy will be 21. Black is contracted on a chunky salary by reports so wouldn't be an easy trade. His output has been impacted by injury and compared to Black's best, McCarthy has shown a lot more potential.
Ryan Murphy first pick that year. Pick 12 or 13 from memory.
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