Can Sydney keep Warner and avoid more trade bans?

[CharlieMortdecai]

No it wasn't, it's on the club's page now and it's been linked in this very thread. Even if that's a bit overwhelming for you, googling "QBE sponsorship Swans academy" answers your question pretty quickly.

Hmm. Not sure what google results you're getting but that didn't answer my question at all. No numbers, no idea of the split between the foundation and QBE. Just a lot of articles from last time the sponsorship was renewed.

 

[Back One Out]

Yeah let's just pretend the zoning advantages bestowed upon Hawthorn in the 70s and 80s never happened.

Victorian clubs take the severe recruiting advantages they have for granted because it's just the norm across most of the competition.

Yeah, nice deflection. A zoning advantage from the mid 1960's which was scaled back in the mid 70's and then handed to St Kilda in the late 70's & 80's (which didn't seem to help them much). Country zones was not a special rule designed to help Hawthorn either - It was a league-wide rule where every VFL team was given a country zone to develop their own players. Other clubs had just as much talent from their recruiting zones as the Hawks (e.g Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, North, Fitzroy, Footscray, Geelong)

But hey... Let's just ignore how the Swans have received ongoing AFL/Channel 7 favouritism for the past 25 years as the television ratings fodder for the millions of AFL fans living in Victoria, Tassie, Adelaide and Perth. ... and let's deflect from the fact the Swans still continue to maintain their leg-ups over the WA, SA and Vic clubs in the 2020's.

("Yay Swannies, my second favourite team! Smash those cocky Cats! Beat those filthy Magpies scumbags!")

Maybe one day the mollycoddled Swans can move past being an AFL plant and a Channel 7 tv ratings mechanism and finally win a premiership by playing by the same rules as everyone else.

 

[Back One Out]

Victorian clubs take the severe recruiting advantages they have for granted because it's just the norm across most of the competition.

Talking about advantages which the mollycoddled Swans receive over the "stand alone" clubs... I didn't even address the way Swans players always get off scott free at the tribunal & MRO for incidents which Victorian players receive automatic bans.

e.g. James Rowbottom tackling the Giants kid and slamming him on the back of his head. Not even cited
e.g. Chad Warner raising his elbow & striking Marc Pittonet in the face - his 2nd offence in 2024, yet another small fine
e.g. Barry Hall free to play in the winning 2005 Grand Final after the tribunal decided him dropping Matt Maguire 100m away from the ball with a punch to the solar plexus actually occurred "in the play".

So many more examples I could use... Literally 2 or 3 every month... People don't even raise their eyebrow or question it anymore. We've all been conditioned to accept the Swans free pass from the MRO while the stooges in the AFL media say nothing.

One of the best ways to compare the discrepancy is the number of times Buddy Franklin was suspended at Hawthorn (8,9 times) compared to his time in Sydney when he was given the green light to go around bumping opponents in the head or belting them with "clumsy high tackles" and was hardly ever held to account. He literally played by different rules... and did you notice how he went from being Mr Public Enemy No.1 as a Hawk and was basically hounded out of Melbourne... to becoming a media darling and everyone's favourite player as a Sydney Swan? That's the power of the AFL media machine... Vic bias, my arse...


--------------------


We can also discuss the way the Swans have been able fill their key defensive posts over the past 3 decades with a steady stream of B-grade full backs & CHBs and have them playing like All Australians due to the AFL umpires looking the other way while they're permitted to systemically bend and break the rules.

• Rod Carter and Andrew Dunkley constantly and blatantly scragging opponents and getting away with it.
• Craig Bolton and Ted Richards illegally tunneling opponents under the ball for the best part of 3 seasons.
• Heath Grundy and Dan Rampe illegally blocking opponents out of every marking contest, often laying blocks for each other before the ball had even been kicked inside fifty. (What 5 metre rule???)

 

[Wolfgang West]

We havent won anything...?

Meanwhile you had a 3 peat just a decade ago i dont see the comparison.

Not to mention the 80’s and 90’s where they pretty much recruited whoever they wanted. Brown paper bags very much in vogue when it come to winning flags back then.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I say again. I'd be happy for the AFL to fund the Northern Academies to develop football in the Northern States and have an open draft. And....the father/son and NGA to also go and the AFL to reimburse the Swans the minimum $1mill pa that the club has been funding for their Academy. How much have the other clubs been funding for their father/son free hits?

It was $1mill in 2014, it will be three times that at least.
But given that is funded by QBE and coteries, and outside the soft cap, not sure why you should be getting that money from the AFL.
100% with you on ditching father-son and NGAs.

 

[Back One Out]

Not to mention the 80’s and 90’s where they pretty much recruited whoever they wanted. Brown paper bags very much in vogue when it come to winning flags back then.

Turn it up, mate. Either learn your history or STFU about things you know nothing about.

Before the national draft and salary cap, VFL clubs literally could recruit whoever they wanted, provided they obtained an official clearance for the player after paying a transfer fee to the player's former club. That was the system back then under the old transfer system.

The Hawks spent way less money on player transfers than Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon and North Melbourne. Even the poorer clubs spent vast sums of money on inflated player transfers. The problem was most of them went broke in doing so, whereas the Hawks spent their money wisely (or simply got lucky) with the interstate champions they targeted.

Hawthorn ended up dominating the competition under the old rules. They reached 7 successive Grand Finals (8 GFs in 9 seasons, winning 5 of them.)

The VFL/AFL changed the rules in response to Hawthorn, Carlton and Essendon's domination of the 80's. They decided to adopt a restrictive socialist policy instead having the "free market" system of the previous 100 years. They brought in new rules and manipulated an equalised competition in order to give everyone a go, even the clubs with no money who didn't pay their way.

The VFL only brought in the salary cap in the mid 80's. It was basically a joke for the first 8, 9, 10 years. Everyone knew the VFL was toothless when it came to policing that rule. It was a new rule which nobody respected and it wasn't enforced. The AFL decided to have an amnesty in the mid 90's and almost EVERY club admitted to being over the salary cap at various times.

The Blues got into strife with the AFL because they doubled down and continued on rorting the salary cap with their brown paper bags well into the 2000's after all the other clubs had agreed to play by the rules from mid 90's.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The one thing this thread has taught me is the pain and misery of being a Swans supporter.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Yeah, nice deflection. A zoning advantage from the mid 1960's which was scaled back in the mid 70's and then handed to St Kilda in the late 70's & 80's (which didn't seem to help them much). Country zones was not a special rule designed to help Hawthorn either - It was a league-wide rule where every VFL team was given a country zone to develop their own players. Other clubs had just as much talent from their recruiting zones as the Hawks (e.g Essendon, Carlton, North, Fitzroy, Footscray, Geelong)

St Kilda were given Ballarat and Hawthorn Mornington Peninsula and West Gippsland when country zoning was introduced. Don’t know where you get the idea that somehow St Kilda was given an advantage or that there was some significant change in metro zones.

That zone supercharged Hawthorn. You won 7 of 16 premierships between 76 and 91.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

It is outrageously biased to have Victorian teams face non Victorians on the MCG in a grand final. Beyond logic or reason.

How many interstate venues hold 100k+?

 

[Wolfgang West]

Turn it up, mate. Either learn your history or STFU about things you know nothing about.

Before the national draft and salary cap, VFL clubs literally could recruit whoever they wanted, provided they obtained an official clearance for the player after paying a transfer fee to the player's former club. That was the system back then under the old transfer system.

The Hawks spent way less money on player transfers than Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon and North Melbourne. Even the poorer clubs spent vast sums of money on inflated player transfers. The problem was most of them went broke in doing so, whereas the Hawks spent their money wisely (or simply got lucky) with the interstate champions they targeted.

Hawthorn ended up dominating the competition under the old rules. They reached 7 successive Grand Finals (8 GFs in 9 seasons, winning 5 of them.)

The VFL/AFL changed the rules in response to Hawthorn, Carlton and Essendon's domination of the 80's. They decided to adopt a restrictive socialist policy instead having the "free for all" system of the previous 100 years. They brought in new rules and manipulated an equalised competition in order to give everyone a go, even the clubs with no money who don't pay their way.

The VFL only brought in the salary cap in the mid 80's. It was basically a joke for the first 8, 9, 10 years. Everyone knew the VFL was toothless when it came to policing that rule. It was a new rule which nobody respected and it wasn't enforced. The AFL decided to have an amnesty in the mid 90's and almost EVERY club admitted to being over the salary cap at various times.

The Blues got into strife with the AFL because they doubled down and continued on rorting the salary cap with their brown paper bags well into the 2000's after all the other clubs had agreed to play by the rules from mid 90's.

STFU about things you know nothing about ? You bought premierships when you could. Simple. You and your cohorts are bitter *****s who if Hawthorn are not the be all and end all winning flags nobody else should. 2012 is still stinging your eyes which is ridiculous because your club has been far superior to Sydney after that. GTF Over it. Oh wait ! Buddy !
Back One Out ? Don't bother it comes out of your gob.

 

[skipper kelly]

Swans must be doing well this season.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

How many interstate venues hold 100k+?

Vics love quoting MCG capacity. Why is it relevant?

It’s arguably a better atmosphere at a packed Adelaide Oval. Optus also cranks when it’s full.

There’s no reason a the last game of the year needs to be in the biggest stadium, especially when > 98% of the audience are watching on TV.

If the above was gospel, then you’d have the Australian Open final held at Marvel. But we don’t, it’s still held at Rod Laver.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Vics love quoting MCG capacity. Why is it relevant?

It’s arguably a better atmosphere at a packed Adelaide Oval. Optus also cranks when it’s full.

There’s no reason a the last game of the year needs to be in the biggest stadium, especially when > 98% of the audience are watching on TV.

If the above was gospel, then you’d have the Australian Open final held at Marvel. But we don’t, it’s still held at Rod Laver.

Its bad enough as it is with the % of both competing clubs members getting what 30% in total for both of Grand final tickets and the rest going too 1 game per year sponsors and you want to diminish that further by play outside of the G.
FMD you sure you don't barrack for Geelong?

 

[EconomicDecline]

Vics love quoting MCG capacity. Why is it relevant?

It’s arguably a better atmosphere at a packed Adelaide Oval. Optus also cranks when it’s full.

There’s no reason a the last game of the year needs to be in the biggest stadium, especially when > 98% of the audience are watching on TV.

If the above was gospel, then you’d have the Australian Open final held at Marvel. But we don’t, it’s still held at Rod Laver.

Money

 

[Hodgey 15]

STFU about things you know nothing about ? You bought premierships when you could. Simple. You and your cohorts are bitter *****s who if Hawthorn are not the be all and end all winning flags nobody else should. 2012 is still stinging your eyes which is ridiculous because your club has been far superior to Sydney after that. GTF Over it. Oh wait ! Buddy !
Back One Out ? Don't bother it comes out of your gob.

 

[Philhawk]

Vics love quoting MCG capacity. Why is it relevant?

It’s arguably a better atmosphere at a packed Adelaide Oval. Optus also cranks when it’s full.

There’s no reason a the last game of the year needs to be in the biggest stadium, especially when > 98% of the audience are watching on TV.

If the above was gospel, then you’d have the Australian Open final held at Marvel. But we don’t, it’s still held at Rod Laver.

 

[BloodySwan]

Depends how you define success. Hawks last flag was the year Heeney debuted, academies weren't having much of an impact then. They've done **** all since.
Dogs got 2016 flag, done better than Hawks, but really on a par with you 3, ditto Melbourne. West Coast are back down the bottom, definitely sustained success better than them. In fact Richmond have to bottom out now too. Is that prospect facing any of you? Brisbane the most likely in a couple of years maybe?

Swans did bottom out in 19-20

Are we the only team in the comp who has bounced back quickly?

Pies bottomed then we're premiers

Geelong never bottom

Swans have openly said they will not bottom out for a rebuild. The 2 seasons at the bottom were a failure

North were very clear they were working through a rebuild. Other clubs too. Are you now suggesting the Swans need to be punished because of other clubs poor performances?

If you feel the academies is the sole reason the Swans are in their current positions you're mistaken.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Are you now suggesting the Swans need to be punished because of other clubs poor performances?

I don't really see the removal of draft concessions as punishment.

 

[Philhawk]

I don't really see the removal of draft concessions as punishment.

Precisely.

This is the key.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

If you feel the academies is the sole reason the Swans are in their current positions you're mistaken.

Certainly not the sole reason. Heeney, Mills, Gulden, Wicks, Campbell, Blakey is a reasonable proportion of your starting 22 though.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

How many interstate venues hold 100k+?

MCG is always sold out for the GF so how many Victorian venues hold 150k?

 

[BloodySwan]

Certainly not the sole reason. Heeney, Mills, Gulden, Wicks, Campbell, Blakey is a reasonable proportion of your starting 22 though.

Sorry how many draft picks did the Swans use on Wicks? Where did the Swans match Gulden?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Sorry how many draft picks did the Swans use on Wicks? Where did the Swans match Gulden?

Didn't realise Wicks was Cat B. What's his story?

 

[BloodySwan]

Didn't realise Wicks was Cat B. What's his story?

Sydney kid born and raised. Played midfield as a junior. Once drafted we started playing him as a forward and he's been slowly working his way into the team since.

There have been a few stretches when he has been dropped and has yo-yo'd from the 22. Plenty fans don't think he currently deserves his spot but is needed due to his pressure and the defensive efforts he brings to the team. If he scores a goal or two that's just gravy

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

I don't really see the removal of draft concessions as punishment.

Why would you not try and encourage local homegrown talent from continuing into their local AFL team? Especially in non-traditional AFL markets? It’s a typically myopic Victorian view that “interstate” teams be under the same market forces as Victorian.

Discounts are entirely reasonable. Nothing prevents other clubs bidding on these prospects (see Hawthorn rd 5 on Campbell). But NOONE bid on Gulden until (I think Geelong/collingwood) at rd 38.

If clubs value this talent. Bid on them. If not, don’t.