Can Sydney rebound after their GF debacle?

[Yellow Feathers]

The general consensus in this thread is that Sydney will be around top 4 but not good enough to go to the whole way.

A few months ago leading into the grand final the general consensus was that Sydney would be unbeatable and Hawthorn were hardly a chance.

So one game changed most of your minds. Do people on Bigfooty actually know anything about football?

 

[MickyG]

The general consensus in this thread is that Sydney will be around top 4 but not good enough to go to the whole way.

A few months ago leading into the grand final the general consensus was that Sydney would be unbeatable and Hawthorn were hardly a chance.

So one game changed most of your minds. Do people on Bigfooty actually know anything about football?

No

 

[JackFlash]

Um, you didn't blow us away in the grand final of 2011. This years was over at 1/4 time, in 2011 at 3/4 time it was anyone's game, even the cats fans around us said the same thing. Unfortunately we blinked. TBH. I was surprised we were there, we should have lost to Hawthorn the week before. And the next year wasn't scarring, it was a game plan that everyone else had caught onto, and a shimozzle of a coach changeover., and players who's careers were over, some with age, some with wear and tear said game plan caused. And far from being humbled, we did bloody well to be there considering.

Back to the topic, the Hawks would have blown anyone out the water on grand final day. Nothing to do with sydney not showing up, unlike Freo last year. Swans will go down because of ageing talent they are hanging onto because they can't trade for more superstars, due to the totally unbiased AFL cracking the shits because with all their efforts, Sydney didn't follow the plan -ie, win!

If hawthorn hang onto that form, God help us all. Luckily he's a fickle bugger. The Hawks were fricken awesome that one day in September, end of story.

Best ever? Well not for mine, the best ever would be two champion teams playing at the top of their game, with no shit umpiring decisions to change the outcome, fighting til the last gasp. And Sydney didn't come close to it.

It wasn't just one game that year, Collingwood were the best team in 2011 and lost only 2 games during the H&A season and the GF, they were all to the one team. The final round of 2011 set the wheels in motion, i knew about half way through the 3rd QTR it was only a matter of time. The Pies have struggled ever since and i suspect the Swans will struggle also, that was a shocker in the GF and it might very well be a last gasp Hawthorn effort who knows?, but the Swans could be psychologically damaged by it. It's a game of percentages most of the time. The Swans will have to work their butts off as challenges come from far and possibly wide again in 2015.

 

[Hawkk]

I still feel Sydney believed their own press somewhat and expected to just turn up to get their medals. This plus Hawks turned on a huge game was all she wrote. I have no doubt that next year, Sydney will have that added advantage that Hawthorn had - revenge for 2012. Swans v Hawks or Port in GF.

What will be more interesting is how North cope with their absolute drubbing in the PF.

Which again is somewhat surprising as Hawthorn had comprehensively defeated Sydney in all matches since the 2012 Grand Final, a match where 6 of Hawthorn's best 18 were absent notwithstanding

In fact Hawthorn had defeated the Swans on 10 of the last 15 occasions (or 7 of the last 10 occasions) leading into the Grand Final

In no certain terms should the Swans have shown any arrogance whatsoever leading into that Grand Final, in fact including the 2012 Grand Final the Swans have only beaten Hawthorn twice at the MCG since 2007 (with Hawthorn winning 7 games at the venue)

 

[Hawkk]

Nope.
Not this team.
GF was massive lesson. They will never go into a game again with any feeling of complacency.
I also think a particular rivalry with Hawks v Swans Is building further and may have several years where each context will be fantastic.

I find it very strange that a team, including Hawthorn 2012, could go into a Grand Final with any complacency whatsoever

Or is that just me?

 

[cryptor]

Trade for more superstars?
Classic example of Melbourne- based inbred ignorance.
We got Buddy on a smart deal that Hawks didn't want to match.
We lost a lot of players to make this happen.
Tippett was a "spud" to 95% of fans - until he joined Sydney, suddenly he's a superstar.

So, 1 superstar and suddenly you tag us as trading for superstars.

Meanwhile your Fat Eddie tries to control the AFL to suit his own ego and Collingwood.

You're just a typical blowhard VFL moron who has an anti- Sydney prejudice. But, more importantly, AFL is going down a very dangerous path.

1. Hawks didn't match because it wasn't a smart deal. The quality of depth you've had to give up is precisely what letting Buddy go has allowed the Hawks to retain and grow and ultimately allowed us to stay in the season when we were hit with injuries. Buddy is a superstar player but he is the equivalent of putting most of your eggs in one basket; if he can get stopped then your chances of winning plummet.

2. Tippett is a spud. But his last game before being recruited was uncharacteristically un-spud-like and his contract was desired by a few teams with plenty of cash. He was then offered superstar money by the Swans who ordinarily shouldn't have been able to afford to make such a large offer. The fact it was then followed up with the largest contract ever offered (Buddy) and then allegedly another big one (Ryder) highlights the fact there is a serious problem.

 

[blue harvest]

I find it very strange that a team, including Hawthorn 2012, could go into a Grand Final with any complacency whatsoever

Or is that just me?

No it's not just you.

I think it's just an excuse people use when in fact the real reason they lost was that they just weren't as good.
Players don't rock up with some complacent attitude thinking they already have it won, they're not stupid, they are in the best position to know how good the other team is, and every one of those Swans players would have known they were up against a great side that had beaten them just a month or so earlier at the same ground.

 

[Hawkk]

The general consensus in this thread is that Sydney will be around top 4 but not good enough to go to the whole way.

A few months ago leading into the grand final the general consensus was that Sydney would be unbeatable and Hawthorn were hardly a chance.

So one game changed most of your minds. Do people on Bigfooty actually know anything about football?

Which was completely irrational given the facts.

• Hawthorn and Sydney went into the Grand Final with identical win/loss records
• Hawthorn and Sydney squared their home / away matches 1-1 (with a net for/against +9 in favour of Sydney across both fixtures)
• Hawthorn were 12-1 at the MCG for the season, Sydney were 2-1 (having already lost to Hawthorn at the venue)
• Of the previous 10 Hawthorn / Sydney matches, Hawthorn held a 7-3 advantage

Ultimately the hype around Sydney leading into that Grand Final was completely irrational, there was NO evidence to back it up (sort of like the purple haze crap that dominated the 2013 Grand Final narrative)

With respect to 2015, the Swans are something of an unknown. Working in their favour is the motivation of losing a previous Grand Final (of the last 30 Grand Final losers, 7 won premierships, 11 made GF's, 15 made the top 4). Working against them is the trade ban that hasn't allowed them to revitalise their list + a relatively clean bill of health last season that didn't test their depth. While the Swans haven't changed their list significantly a number of their challenges have...

• Hawthorn added Frawley and O'Rourke
• Port Adelaide added Ryder
• North Melbourne added Waite and Higgins

So it'll be interesting to see how the Swans go, one thing is for sure, there shouldn't be any issues with complacency whatsoever

 

[MagpieJo]

Trade for more superstars?
Classic example of Melbourne- based inbred ignorance.
We got Buddy on a smart deal that Hawks didn't want to match.
We lost a lot of players to make this happen.
Tippett was a "spud" to 95% of fans - until he joined Sydney, suddenly he's a superstar.

So, 1 superstar and suddenly you tag us as trading for superstars.

Meanwhile your Fat Eddie tries to control the AFL to suit his own ego and Collingwood.

You're just a typical blowhard VFL moron who has an anti- Sydney prejudice. But, more importantly, AFL is going down a very dangerous path.

Ok since name calling is now apparently allowed, your just a typical sydney moron who bought into the manufactured team, your team has been propped up, you have to be successful to get supporters, that's been acknowledged publicly by the AFL, who came out and said you cannot be allowed to fall down the ladder. You inbred fool!

 

[Gunstall555]

Is that what it's called? I guess it was a bit dicey.

Did anyone notice how Lonergan decided to stay and signed on the moment after Christensen was traded?

 

[MagpieJo]

No it's not just you.

I think it's just an excuse people use when in fact the real reason they lost was that they just weren't as good.
Players don't rock up with some complacent attitude thinking they already have it won, they're not stupid, they are in the best position to know how good the other team is, and every one of those Swans players would have known they were up against a great side that had beaten them just a month or so earlier at the same ground.

You smashed them, blew them out the water from the first bounce! No amount of bullshit from their delusional fans can ever take that away! Considering the injuries and your coaches dramas this year, it was an amazing performance. Too good for em? Complacency? They weren't even in the same ball park!

 

[MagpieJo]

It wasn't just one game that year, Collingwood were the best team in 2011 and lost only 2 games during the H&A season and the GF, they were all to the one team. The final round of 2011 set the wheels in motion, i knew about half way through the 3rd QTR it was only a matter of time. The Pies have struggled ever since and i suspect the Swans will struggle also, that was a shocker in the GF and it might very well be a last gasp Hawthorn effort who knows?, but the Swans could be psychologically damaged by it. It's a game of percentages most of the time. The Swans will have to work their butts off as challenges come from far and possibly wide again in 2015.

I knew fom the 1/4 time Mark of the last round! We were gone, I was as shocked as hird to be sitting there on that last week! and kudus to your guys. Struggled since yes, but rebuilding too, we will be back, I have no doubt,and we don't need any coke to do it! Don't wrote the Hawks off, they are far from done. Last gasp? Nope still frighteningly good.

The swans? Well I keep saying you guys are gone but you keep coming back to haunt me, so I ain't giving them any good karma!

 

[MagpieJo]

1. Hawks didn't match because it wasn't a smart deal. The quality of depth you've had to give up is precisely what letting Buddy go has allowed the Hawks to retain and grow and ultimately allowed us to stay in the season when we were hit with injuries. Buddy is a superstar player but he is the equivalent of putting most of your eggs in one basket; if he can get stopped then your chances of winning plummet.

2. Tippett is a spud. But his last game before being recruited was uncharacteristically un-spud-like and his contract was desired by a few teams with plenty of cash. He was then offered superstar money by the Swans who ordinarily shouldn't have been able to afford to make such a large offer. The fact it was then followed up with the largest contract ever offered (Buddy) and then allegedly another big one (Ryder) highlights the fact there is a serious problem.

That's the thing. Just like carlton way back in the day paying Couta so much. It takes far more than 1 player to win a premiership. Too many thought the Hawks were buddy. Just like the cats and Ablett.

 

[Leg End]

Ok since name calling is now apparently allowed, your just a typical sydney moron who bought into the manufactured team, your team has been propped up, you have to be successful to get supporters, that's been acknowledged publicly by the AFL, who came out and said you cannot be allowed to fall down the ladder. You inbred fool!

Nah. Good try - but I'm much better at this than you.

 

[Leg End]

No it's not just you.

I think it's just an excuse people use when in fact the real reason they lost was that they just weren't as good.
Players don't rock up with some complacent attitude thinking they already have it won, they're not stupid, they are in the best position to know how good the other team is, and every one of those Swans players would have known they were up against a great side that had beaten them just a month or so earlier at the same ground.

GF was a one-off.
Swans were off their game and Hawks were very good.
Few things bounce our way in first two quarters - then we have a 20 point deficit at half time. 40 points is game over unless opposition let up - and Hawks never did.

I am hoping other clubs think Sydney will be damaged goods (no pun int.) next year - because The boys will come out firing.

And elbows to the head by Lake on Buddy etc will never be tolerated again.

 

[blue harvest]

Money cant buy heart unfortunately

EFA

 

[Roddy]

What we saw in the GF was one hard, tough, skillful, well drilled side, 120% committed to their goal, absolutely willing to (legally) smash any opposition who got in their way, and a team who were like a dear in the headlights, shellshocked, completely unable to go with them. Simple as that.

What we will see in 2015 is, one way or the other, the true character of the Sydney Swans Football Club. It is a true test of their mettle. I for one hope they rise to the occasion....

 

[Leg End]

Money cant buy heart unfortunately

How would you know? You've never had any money.

 

[Leg End]

What we saw in the GF was one hard, tough, skillful, well drilled side, 120% committed to their goal, absolutely willing to (legally) smash any opposition who got in their way, and a team who were like a dear in the headlights, shellshocked, completely unable to go with them. Simple as that.

What we will see in 2015 is, one way or the other, the true character of the Sydney Swans Football Club. It is a true test of their mettle. I for one hope they rise to the occasion....

Understandable how opponent supporters like to think that Sydney will fold in a heap because of one game. That's why I'm looking forward to next year - it's redemption time.

But you don't lose the talent and culture of a great club in one game. That actually disrespects Hawthorn. They were unbelievable.

 

[MickyG]

What we saw in the GF was one hard, tough, skillful, well drilled side, 120% committed to their goal, absolutely willing to (legally) smash any opposition who got in their way, and a team who were like a dear in the headlights, shellshocked, completely unable to go with them. Simple as that.

What we will see in 2015 is, one way or the other, the true character of the Sydney Swans Football Club. It is a true test of their mettle. I for one hope they rise to the occasion....

Sorry, deliberately elbowing multiple players in the head is not in the rules. I'd rather massive brawls than see my team let that shit happen again.

 

[My North]

Sydney will be strong in 2015

 

[Bloods]

Hard to know. Two hours of footy seems to have changed everything.

Flags are hard to win, GFs are hard to make. I think we'll be alright but it doesn't just happen because you've been stung by a loss. We missed an opportunity and got beaten by an excellent outfit.

 

[B4Bear]

So you agree that the competition has inherent disadvantages for teams from the northern states?

The persecution complex is strong with you Swans supporters.

You are the biggest of two teams in the biggest city and you are whining that you are disadvantaged?

If you are so disadvantaged, then how did you win the premiership in 2012?

Most teams has some form of disadvantage, they deal with it and move on. You lot are just looking for excuses.

 

[ep2018]

I haven't read the entire thread but usually when a team gets smacked in a GF they don't usually win the flag the year after. I have to go back to West Coast winning in 1992 as the last team to win a flag after losing a GF badly. Sydney have loads of talent in their team and I expect them to buck the trend and come close next year.

 

[B4Bear]

Which was completely irrational given the facts.

• Hawthorn and Sydney went into the Grand Final with identical win/loss records
• Hawthorn and Sydney squared their home / away matches 1-1 (with a net for/against +9 in favour of Sydney across both fixtures)
• Hawthorn were 12-1 at the MCG for the season, Sydney were 2-1 (having already lost to Hawthorn at the venue)
• Of the previous 10 Hawthorn / Sydney matches, Hawthorn held a 7-3 advantage

Ultimately the hype around Sydney leading into that Grand Final was completely irrational, there was NO evidence to back it up (sort of like the purple haze crap that dominated the 2013 Grand Final narrative)

With respect to 2015, the Swans are something of an unknown. Working in their favour is the motivation of losing a previous Grand Final (of the last 30 Grand Final losers, 7 won premierships, 11 made GF's, 15 made the top 4). Working against them is the trade ban that hasn't allowed them to revitalise their list + a relatively clean bill of health last season that didn't test their depth. While the Swans haven't changed their list significantly a number of their challenges have...

• Hawthorn added Frawley and O'Rourke
• Port Adelaide added Ryder
• North Melbourne added Waite and Higgins

So it'll be interesting to see how the Swans go, one thing is for sure, there shouldn't be any issues with complacency whatsoever

I think the loss of Malceski will make it a bridge to far for them. Their defence was already suspect, and he for me, was their best player on the day out of the backs. Who/how are they going to replace him will be interesting.

They will be in the eight, but I think that is about it.