Can Sydney rebound after their GF debacle?

[Exe Gesis]

We'll know the answer on Friday 29th May, Round nine. We only play each other once.

It could've been twice.....if your Swans didn't fail to make the finals

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Black - proven AFL players who are in no danger of losing form due to age in 2015

Jetta's form has fallen off the face of the earth, Josh Kennedy wasn't playing at his usual standards last year and Jack wasn't close to AA this year as he was the previous year.

 

[swansfan51]

I posted this on the Sydney board a while ago:

I know our team is a special flower that is absolutely different from every other team in the league, but lets look at what has happened the year after a flogging in recent history.

2000 - Melbourne lose by 60. The next year they finish 11th.
2003 - Collingwood lose by 50. The next year they finish 13th.
2004 - Brisbane lose by 40. The next year they finish 11th.
2007 - Port Adelaide lose by 119. The next year they finish 13th.
2010 - St Kilda lose by 56. The next year they finish 6th.

I will add that West Coast came back from a flogging in 1991 to win the next year's Grand Final, though they had some pretty fantastic list concessions and were a new club.
Also Geelong got belted in a Grand Final in 1994 (by that West Coast team) and recovered to get absolutely belted again in the Grand Final in 1995.

 

[Engimal]

Sydney will finish top 6 next year, at the very least.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Hmmm not sure we had a lot go right this year but eerily enough our first and last game ended the same way bullied into submission.

They say you need to finish top 4 (we finished 1st)
They say you need a lot of luck injury wise (we used the least amount of players of any side)
We had 2 home finals.

Is there a difference in being flogged in a prelim than a Grand final?

 

[stevoswan]

From that it seems like losing a tight one can spur you on whereas a flogging can knock a lot of wind out of the group and leave them questioning the future. Although it could just mean that the teams that got flogged weren't that great in the first place. I'd say it's a bit of both.

This point does worry me. I'd be less worried if Roosy was coach and Kirky was captain(is my nostalgia a bit too soon?), but I question whether Horse can be as effective at 'rallying the troops' in this situation, and whether our famed 'culture' will stand up. The nature of the loss bought this into question somewhat.......intriguing days ahead

 

[romeoh]

Nope -no excuses. Not the sort of hard fought loss that inspires you to regroup and rebound. Just an inexplicably weak effort that I see no solace being taken from. Sorry Swannies. ( of course if you could find the form you had the night you flogged us-who knows?)

 

[SydneyPhilly]

Sydney will not finish in the top 8 next season. Mark my words.

Oh boy, get your popcorns ready

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

At this point it's impossible to tell how the defeat will reverberate around the playing group. Richards spent the majority of the game screaming at teammates every time a Hawthorn forward took a mark or kicked a goal.
I hadn't noticed him lose his cool like that before, but I had noticed earlier in the year that he was starting to get beaten more often, so perhaps the frustration had built up over the season and he just started losing it a bit more. Some players didn't look like they wanted to even try after quarter time and were already beaten.

So many of the midfielders were down though, so rather than a bunch of them cracking the shits with 1 or 2 who went missing, the collective might take it all onboard, get together, improve and drive the team for the year.

It's hard to say which way they will go though. There is question marks over their depth, and if theres a few disgruntled guys who think others gave up on the big day, it could hang about for a while and cause a drop off like Swansfan51 has highlighted with other teams who copped a beating in the previous years GF.

Who knows.

 

[master bate]

Hmmm not sure we had a lot go right this year but eerily enough our first and last game ended the same way bullied into submission.

They say you need to finish top 4 (we finished 1st)
They say you need a lot of luck injury wise (we used the least amount of players of any side)
We had 2 home finals.

Is there a difference in being flogged in a prelim than a Grand final?

Has any team rebounded from being flogged in any final to go all the way?

Obviously the later the better as it means you've won 1 or 2 finals (unless you are straight setted), but being flogged in finals can mean you get found out in major areas.

I don't think that will be Sydney. I think the swans will bounce back strong.

I can't see Parker, Kennedy, Hannebery, Jack etc being embarrassed at the contest in a final ever again. I still can barely believe it happened. I think it will be a case of getting back to old school swans footy if things go awry in a big game in the future.

But in terms of run and skill players I still have doubts. You need skilled outside types to hold their own against the leagues best in those spots at Hawthorn and the rising power runners. And from your team Malceski gone, Goodes and Shaw a year older, Cunningham and Lloyd still young and Jetta and Rohan will need to perform on the big stage.

 

[Furn2]

I think the whole idea that previous results can motivate you to perform better or destroy your soul to a point you can't perform is rubbish.

You're either good or your not.

Almost all the sides that lost GFs and came back to win the flag were favorites in the gf they lost and the dominant team over that season, while the teams that lose GFs badly and fall away the next yeAr were usually surprise contenders.

The a Swans are good no doubt but as others have said they are very top heavy talent wise and therir depth is questionable. They cant afford to carry the likes of Reid, Rohan and Jetta most weeks and have Tippett miss half the games and only beat up on teams they are thrashing and are Lready way to reliant on Buddy.

So I guess like most teams they will need a lot to go right and maybe a little to go wrong for the a Hawks.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Has any team rebounded from being flogged in any final to go all the way?

Obviously the later the better as it means you've won 1 or 2 finals (unless you are straight setted), but being flogged in finals can mean you get found out in major areas.

I don't think that will be Sydney. I think the swans will bounce back strong.

I can't see Parker, Kennedy, Hannebery, Jack etc being embarrassed at the contest in a final ever again. I still can barely believe it happened. I think it will be a case of getting back to old school swans footy if things go awry in a big game in the future.

But in terms of run and skill players I still have doubts. You need skilled outside types to hold their own against the leagues best in those spots at Hawthorn and the rising power runners. And from your team Malceski gone, Goodes and Shaw a year older, Cunningham and Lloyd still young and Jetta and Rohan will need to perform on the big stage.

Top of my head Geelong 2010 prelim against Collingwood rebounded the following year and won the flag but they were considered a modern day great we are not.

McVeigh will move back to try and cover Mal which will open up a midfield position for Mitchell/Heeney.

In my opinion Shaw and Goodes were asked to play on for 2015 i think they were ready to pull the pin but with the trade ban to much experience lost all at once.

Shaw will probably finish his career in the NEAFL i can see Jones putting pressure on him to take his position, Goodes is a legend and irreplaceable.

Cunningham/Lloyd/Rampe/Rohan all crumbled under pressure in their first Grand final hard to criticise them when they had no leadership.

 

[MightyHawks]

Has any team rebounded from being flogged in any final to go all the way?

Obviously the later the better as it means you've won 1 or 2 finals (unless you are straight setted), but being flogged in finals can mean you get found out in major areas.

I don't think that will be Sydney. I think the swans will bounce back strong.

I can't see Parker, Kennedy, Hannebery, Jack etc being embarrassed at the contest in a final ever again. I still can barely believe it happened. I think it will be a case of getting back to old school swans footy if things go awry in a big game in the future.

But in terms of run and skill players I still have doubts. You need skilled outside types to hold their own against the leagues best in those spots at Hawthorn and the rising power runners. And from your team Malceski gone, Goodes and Shaw a year older, Cunningham and Lloyd still young and Jetta and Rohan will need to perform on the big stage.

Hawthorn 1985 got flogged in the Grand Final and won 3 of the next 4 Grand Finals

Platten was a more than handy recruit in 1986 and Dunstall had a breakout year

While Heeney sounds like he'll be a gun - not sure he'll have an impact in his first year like Platten did

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

If they persist with their stupid four tall setup they have no chance. If they drop that carbon rod called Reid and use Goodes only against teams where they can't be exposed on the rebound they'll get to the GF though.

This is what I thought early on in the year too, that they had a greedy fwd line. Worked most of the year because they had the best midfield most of the year, but when the midfield didn't rock up, they had Franklin and not much else.

As for topic, I think they will be top 3 for sure, whether or not that takes them all the way I don't know.

 

[Freomaniac]

I'm worried about their defence.
They have lost Malceski who sets their play up.
Richards is 33, Grundy is 28/29.
Rhyce Shaw is done as a player.

Bingo. I was thinking the same thing.

They need to use their 1st or 2nd round pick for a key defender.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Sydney will not finish in the top 8 next season. Mark my words.

Seek Counselling.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Sydney will not finish in the top 8 next season. Mark my words.

Barwick is that you

 

[swansfan51]

I can't see Parker, Kennedy, Hannebery, Jack etc being embarrassed at the contest in a final ever again. I still can barely believe it happened.

They also got flogged by Fremantle last year and it was out of character and will never happen again. When it happens next year it will be out of character and never happen again.

 

[Ian Dunross]

I wrote in the GF post-mortem thread that Sydney's success has been built on team first, hard work and an even spread of output.

Kieran Jack was only ever an AA because of gut running and relentless effort. Josh Kennedy is a bullocking clearance machine who relies on putting head over the ball over and over. These are Sydney's best players, Franklin aside.

They have been overhyped because: 1) they play for Sydney; and 2) they played in a Premiership. On point 1), I remember Kirk retired the same season as Andrew McLeod. The amount of press Kirk got ahead of McLeod, you'd think he was one of the greatest big game players of the modern era and a player who people went to watch and not a shaggy Kane Cornes with quirky Buddhist leanings.

Sydney lacks quality. If you take away their team first attitude, "Bloods Culture" malarky that they sprout on about, you're left with a middling team.

Lewis Jetta has played one good season of football. Mike Pyke the same (and only when backing up Mumford). Daniel Hannerbury has lost his way since 2012, but could still be an AA again. Kurt Tippett is making Adelaideans feel better about themselves with every match day performance. Grundy is being shown up as a Zac Dawson without the personality disorder. They've just lost their most important defender in Malceski and Ted Richards is catching up on Dustin Fletcher. Their captain isn't fit to polish Luke Hodge's boots as an onfield general. While he can be a useful player, he'll never be a match winner.

Then there are these kids, Cunningham, Lloyd, Derrickx, Nankervis, Reid (yes, I'm still waiting for him to turn 20). I don't know about their prospects. I doubt many of them would find a spot in the Hawks team.

Without Franklin, they probably miss the top 4 in 2014.

Some of these comments may be slight exaggerations upon reflection.

The point remains they've been overhyped and I wouldn't be too surprised to see them miss the GF this year.

 

[CrazyJoeDevola]

Sydney will not finish in the top 8 next season. Mark my words.

Man do Carlton supporters post some bullshit.. Utter bullshit

 

[Exe Gesis]

Man do Carlton supporters post some bullshit.. Utter bullshit

Not udder bullshit?

 

[CrazyJoeDevola]

Not udder bullshit?

Genau

 

[RW]

We're too good a team to simply fall away and I'd expect us to finish top 6 at least, but defence is an issue as Richards is starting to decline which will render his partnership with Grundy less effective, but if Reid can play down back and regain his confidence that would change things, because we need to get him back into form somehow.

We will NOT win the flag next year unless we can improve in two areas: 1) clearances; and 2) decision making. It's a fair point that our midfield's success in the last few seasons has been based to some extent on two-way running and constant effort rather than skill. I think the coaches have realised this by bringing in Jake Lloyd whose decision making and ball use have been very good in the majority of his games since coming into the team, and a FIT Tom Mitchell will undoubtedly improve our clearance work (in case anyone asks, he was injured for most of this year), but further improvement will be needed if we are to contend again.

It'd be nice if the AFL would allow us to trade in players like every other club, though.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Three big issues for mine

1) leadership - McVeigh is good, but Jack is comparable to Murphy imo - not fit to tie the laces of Hodge, Selwood, Watson. Who are the other real leaders? They have a lot of good players, a lot of professional players but other than Buddy they an lack on-field presence - especially with Goodes declining. Who stood up in the 2013 PF? 2014 GF? Who will stand up when it counts in 2015??

2) tall forwards, yes, FORWARDS - this is only if Buddy goes down for a prolonged period. Do not rate Reid, Goodes is an ornament of the game but I think he should have gone out a month ago, and Tippett is overrated - has bad injury woes for a guy of his size, is relatively one-dimensional and just not good enough to beast the cream of the crop of defences imo. If buddy goes down, they have a huge amount of salary cap tied up in a fairly ineffective area - their defence is coverable

3-inside midfield. Guys like kennedy, Parker, Bird are good, but remains to be seen whether 2012 performances from guys like O'Keefe and Jack can be replaced - I doubt Jack's ability to hit his 2012 heights again.

Look out of the top 4 I think Sydney would be actually the most likely (considering draws) to drop out of the 8, but You'd think they have a core 16 or so guys who will be able to get 11-12 wins easy against the easy beat sides for top teams (gws, melb, wb, carl, coll, wc, bris) and then it will be up to guys like Cunningham, Bird, Mitchell, Heeney, Jones, Towers and Rampe as to whether they win say 16-17 (top 4) or around that 13-14 mark (6th or so).

Despite my doubts I have them 3rd at the moment behind Hawks and Port. Should challenge but if they don't no worries with Parker, Hannebery, Mitchell, Heeney, Bird around for the start of newer greater things. But I just think they are carrying 3 big risks in 2015 and so if the worst does happen it will be a big implosion, whereas Hawks/Port/Freo can mitigate that

 

[worthy]

Slightly amused by all this talking down of Sydney based on 1 poor GF, they finished on top, comfortably made their way to the GF but were destroyed by a very impressive Hawk performance on the day.
Should make top 4 in 2015.