That team could beat the lions if the game played wasnt on grand final day
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Can this team beat Brisbane? Yes or No?
- Thread starter sadako1999
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cwood_rules
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Can we beat the brissy lions
i'll give u a HELL YEAH WE CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i'll give u a HELL YEAH WE CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
punkologist
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Guy Richards is going to be a gun in the ruck he has been very good in the preseason intra club matches, and I think he is what we need.
I agree that the problem is physical pressure. Loosing the ruck is not the problem as we have shown we can still be very efeective out of the middle without it, but having fraser, rocca and tarrant in the forward line and richards in the the ruck will really stretch brisbane's backs. The problem with the GF was that we had to rely on fraser in the ruck all day becuase rocca wasn't there to back him up, with fraser and richards alternating, it brings a whole new dimention to the team.
I agree that the problem is physical pressure. Loosing the ruck is not the problem as we have shown we can still be very efeective out of the middle without it, but having fraser, rocca and tarrant in the forward line and richards in the the ruck will really stretch brisbane's backs. The problem with the GF was that we had to rely on fraser in the ruck all day becuase rocca wasn't there to back him up, with fraser and richards alternating, it brings a whole new dimention to the team.
sadako1999
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i understand the point about mental scarring but from apart from beating them twice at night at home in tight contests when we seem to play better for some reason I cannot remember the last time we beat them in the day. My point is were we lucky those 2 nights (Brisbane had their chances in game 1 when tarrant had an idiot on him and we won by 3 points AND in game 2 voss akermanis keating etc were sitting on the bench when didak iced it )? Maybe the grand final at night wouldnt be a bad idea after all!
Piebot 3k
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Great input! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No chance!! Your young players on Saturday night, where woeful. Admittedly you guys were missing players, and as I heard eddies whinge…..”4 weeks behind in preparation”………… I can’t see the pies beating Brisbane when it counts.
On the other hand Brisbane’s win over hawthorn, considering Brisbane was missing 7 of their premiership players, suggests that their depth is much better then Collingswood’s, (unearthed a player in Pratt) and they look much sharper, considering you both started your pre-seasons at around the same time.
I know that preseason form doesn’t mean much…………. But to have only kicked 2 goals in a game of footy would have to be of concern………….. whether you admit it or not.
The incentive in front of Brisbane “4 in a row” will drive them to another premiership, then hopefully they will rest on their Loral’s, and give other teams a chance.
On the other hand Brisbane’s win over hawthorn, considering Brisbane was missing 7 of their premiership players, suggests that their depth is much better then Collingswood’s, (unearthed a player in Pratt) and they look much sharper, considering you both started your pre-seasons at around the same time.
I know that preseason form doesn’t mean much…………. But to have only kicked 2 goals in a game of footy would have to be of concern………….. whether you admit it or not.
The incentive in front of Brisbane “4 in a row” will drive them to another premiership, then hopefully they will rest on their Loral’s, and give other teams a chance.
the ranter
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- Feb 23, 2004
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If the entire back six develop the ability to switch smoothly between man on man and zone, and know when to switch, then
YES.
At the moment they don't know when to go zone and when to switch back to man on man, and when they do switch they do it at the most inopportune time.
So no. They can't beat brisbane. Though the defence in 2002 showed glimmers of going to the next level it just hasn't got there yet.
In 2003 there were matches where they were like blind buffalo.
As I've said elsewhere the back 6 are the foundation stone, they make you competitive. Team with the best defence, 9 times out of 10 wins grand finals, no matter what code we are talking about.
YES.
At the moment they don't know when to go zone and when to switch back to man on man, and when they do switch they do it at the most inopportune time.
So no. They can't beat brisbane. Though the defence in 2002 showed glimmers of going to the next level it just hasn't got there yet.
In 2003 there were matches where they were like blind buffalo.
As I've said elsewhere the back 6 are the foundation stone, they make you competitive. Team with the best defence, 9 times out of 10 wins grand finals, no matter what code we are talking about.
Tas
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TheBrownDog
- Dec 23, 2002
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I think that team listed can beat Brisbane, I do not think Brisbane is as good as people make them out to be.
You can be really good because you have an exceptional team or you can be successful because there is just not a whole lot of competition. In 1999-2001 Kangaroos, Essendon, Adelaide and Carlton took heavy hits to their playing lists due to success, age and having a smaller salary cap (well, except for Carlton's under-the-table payments) and the only consistant finalist team to hold onto a stable list was Brisbane.
Brisbane's strength is really their half-back line, they generate alot of drive from there and will often play a loose man across half-back to create that drive. They will often use a flood in a hope to choke out an opposition team just with a sheer quantity of players in defense. Combined with a very good midfield it makes Brisbane a good team, hardly exceptional but still a very good team. Boring as hell to watch but very effective.
Their weakness for them is what is a mediocre forward line. Lynch is a great player but he is well past his prime and the others are extremely inconsistant.
Collingwood have a great bunch of running players but at times are too offensive especially across half-forward. That may sound odd, but when there is turn-over the lack of defensive pressure across that line results in Brisbane setting up scoring opportunities.
Brisbane rely on choking an opposition team because they do not have the forward line to shoot-out against oppositions that have had great forward lines.
It has been difficult for Collingwood in the past because they have had a very young team and it is not easy to get consistant perfomances from alot of young players, especially in long seasons but time is on your side.
As time goes by the kids become older, wiser and more consistant. Brisbane is getting older, tired and really were up for the picking in last year's GF which I expected Collingwood to win even without Rocca.
Brisbane will continue to be a fair team as long as they can keep their list together but they are very much beatable. I saw the Eagles destroy Brisbane at home last year and I think that game highlighted just how beatable they are when the pressure is on and their half-back line is taken out of the game. Brisbane ended that game with alot of midfield possession due to great players but where absoultely destroyed on the scoreboard.
They just had no drive across half-back, worsfold was brilliant in disabling and routing that side away from home with a bunch of kids.
Collingwood have the players, they just need to refine their tactics to take out the half-back line. Force them to play wide and man up all their defenders, do not let them run around with loose players there. Man them up, put pressure on them, do not let them setup goals from the half-back line and you have an excellent chance of beating them on any day of the year, anywhere, anytime.
You can be really good because you have an exceptional team or you can be successful because there is just not a whole lot of competition. In 1999-2001 Kangaroos, Essendon, Adelaide and Carlton took heavy hits to their playing lists due to success, age and having a smaller salary cap (well, except for Carlton's under-the-table payments) and the only consistant finalist team to hold onto a stable list was Brisbane.
Brisbane's strength is really their half-back line, they generate alot of drive from there and will often play a loose man across half-back to create that drive. They will often use a flood in a hope to choke out an opposition team just with a sheer quantity of players in defense. Combined with a very good midfield it makes Brisbane a good team, hardly exceptional but still a very good team. Boring as hell to watch but very effective.
Their weakness for them is what is a mediocre forward line. Lynch is a great player but he is well past his prime and the others are extremely inconsistant.
Collingwood have a great bunch of running players but at times are too offensive especially across half-forward. That may sound odd, but when there is turn-over the lack of defensive pressure across that line results in Brisbane setting up scoring opportunities.
Brisbane rely on choking an opposition team because they do not have the forward line to shoot-out against oppositions that have had great forward lines.
It has been difficult for Collingwood in the past because they have had a very young team and it is not easy to get consistant perfomances from alot of young players, especially in long seasons but time is on your side.
As time goes by the kids become older, wiser and more consistant. Brisbane is getting older, tired and really were up for the picking in last year's GF which I expected Collingwood to win even without Rocca.
Brisbane will continue to be a fair team as long as they can keep their list together but they are very much beatable. I saw the Eagles destroy Brisbane at home last year and I think that game highlighted just how beatable they are when the pressure is on and their half-back line is taken out of the game. Brisbane ended that game with alot of midfield possession due to great players but where absoultely destroyed on the scoreboard.
They just had no drive across half-back, worsfold was brilliant in disabling and routing that side away from home with a bunch of kids.
Collingwood have the players, they just need to refine their tactics to take out the half-back line. Force them to play wide and man up all their defenders, do not let them run around with loose players there. Man them up, put pressure on them, do not let them setup goals from the half-back line and you have an excellent chance of beating them on any day of the year, anywhere, anytime.
the ranter
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- Feb 23, 2004
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nice piece
This is a good post, but this part of it especially is very relevant.
A premiership side has got to have a dominant CHB - not just a defensive one but one capable of rebounding and intimidating opponents. Equally they should have a close-to-goal forward who can regularly kick bags of goals (not 2-3, but 5-6).
As a Port supporter, I see similarities between our sides' HB lines and forward lines from last year.
We had Wakelins at FB.
Defensive type CHB (Paxman and Prestigiacomo)
Tredders and Tarrant - both terrific marking forwards but 50-60 goal / season players not 80-90.
Opportunists aplenty (Pickett, Dew, Burgoynes / Didak, Davis)
Cornes and Rocca as the other key forward.
Bishop and Cloke as the other tall back (granted Cloke takes the points there).
What we both lacked was a Lynch and a Leppitsch.
Port are trying to rectify a deficiency at CHB by developing Chad Cornes there. It has drawn alot of criticsm by Power supporters (Porthos no less). It may create a void alongside of Tredrea.
But I reckon it is a step towards being comparable to Brisbane's dominant structure.
Other than a powerful ruckman and a better FF goal-kicker, I reckon this is the other area Collingwood need to be better in.
sadako1999
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We kind of had them or the opportunities at least.
Trading Mal Michael for Jarrod Molloy was the worst thing we ever did along with trading pick 3 for Mckee and Danny Roach (when we couldve got Matthew Pavlich at 3). Also not recruiting an established ruckman in the last 3 years will continue to hurt us.
A star defender and a giant ruckman is all we ever needed. These are the main differences between us and Brisbane.
Trading Mal Michael for Jarrod Molloy was the worst thing we ever did along with trading pick 3 for Mckee and Danny Roach (when we couldve got Matthew Pavlich at 3). Also not recruiting an established ruckman in the last 3 years will continue to hurt us.
A star defender and a giant ruckman is all we ever needed. These are the main differences between us and Brisbane.
GlovemanGayfer
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A ruckman, a defender and a midfielder who stands up on the big day and shuts down a player and then perhaps we might win
Tas
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TheBrownDog
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Four out of the six Brisbane defenders are in the top ten for disposals at the club, I think that highlights just how much possession they derive from the backline.
Collingwood that has a good running backline which generated approximately 1300 disposals for all those listed defenders compared to around 1800 for Brisbane's. It is a massive difference and highlights just how important that backline is. The games they lost they broke down across the backline.
That is their strength. Without that attack from defense the utilisation of their possessions in the midfield drops dramatically in quality and effectiveness and they look beatable.
But they are still a great team with alot of good quality players. I just think Collingwood has the cattle to put the pressure on across your forward line and to restrict their run from defense. In alot of games you have done that for the vast majority of the games. It has usually been very damaging bursts that have broken the game apart.
Collingwood that has a good running backline which generated approximately 1300 disposals for all those listed defenders compared to around 1800 for Brisbane's. It is a massive difference and highlights just how important that backline is. The games they lost they broke down across the backline.
That is their strength. Without that attack from defense the utilisation of their possessions in the midfield drops dramatically in quality and effectiveness and they look beatable.
But they are still a great team with alot of good quality players. I just think Collingwood has the cattle to put the pressure on across your forward line and to restrict their run from defense. In alot of games you have done that for the vast majority of the games. It has usually been very damaging bursts that have broken the game apart.
I believe so, only because of the way we play along with the crowd. If the crowd gives the momentum to the Pies, like the QF last year, then thats where we can beat them. If you don't believe we can beat a side like that you cant believe they can beat any side. Collingwood is very capable.
Tas
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TheBrownDog
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I think as Collingwood wins games they will rise in confidence.
I think one of the only real problems for the side is that after a few years now sides will have more of an understanding of how to cope with the gameplan, have more of an idea of the strengths and weakness of each player.
I do not think the side can afford to become stale or too predictable so Malthouse will have to shake things up a little and at times use alternative game plans, tactics or strategies. Especially against sides they will just choke up the midfield and backline like Brisbane does.
Originally posted by SurreyBlue
No.
Collingwood need to strengthen their back half and midfield (including Ruck) to get close. Sorry guys, but your KP defenders are not going to do the job on Lynch and Brown, then again not many team defences could and your midfielders (depth) are just not in the same class.
There was probably only one team that could have beaten or break even with Brisbane the past couple of years but they seem to "choke" come finals time.
what he said
- Mar 12, 2003
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I want to preface my post with a couple of things. One - I was directed to this thread from the Brisbane board (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101724&goto=nextnewest). Two - I think Brisbane are going to really struggle this year. Everybody forgets that they were 6th with just a couple of rounds to go last year, and it's not going to be any easier this year. By the same token, I think Collingwood will go well. Everybody forgets that they were favourites going into the Grand Final - which implies they were doing something right. The Grand Final was one bad day after a number of good ones throughout the season. Sure, the wrong day to have a bad game but in March 2004 it's hardly anything to be slitting wrists over. Indeed, it wasn't the first time Collingwood was well beaten last year.
Having said all that I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see what a load of rubbish your "Boring as hell to watch but very effective" really is. I don't know what team you have been watching the last 3 years. Maybe you prefer rugby league. What is more astonishing is that such a comment comes from a Collingwood supporter! Somebody who barracks for one of the most boring teams in the competition playing under King Of The Boring himself Mick Malthouse. Collingwood may very well win the premiership this year, but there is little doubt it will be a lot less entertaining than the last 3.
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