Expansion Can't all the codes just get along??

[littleduck]

They've averaged over 20k once this century.

Yeah, in a 25k capacity stadium.

They sure need that 40k stadium.......

They've just built a new grandstand but it still only holds mid 20's as capacity.

Neither the Knights nor the Jets home and games crowds demand a 40k stadium you're right, but the 3 main reasons why an upgrade to 40k is an issue are:
1. When you make the NRL Finals you can now earn a home final for all except the Grand Final, and they are all guaranteed sellouts.
2. Ditto for the A-League, except you can even host a Grand Final.
3. It's a perfect venue for 2018 World Cup Football pool games.

 

[vinnie]

I don't know where you are getting your figures from. By all means post them if you have them. I live in China. I see plenty of people playing basketball and hope to emulate Yao Ming, and meet plenty of Chinese tell me that soccer is not very popular. Surely if soccer was as popular as you say it is, a country with almost a billion and a half people could do a better job in qualifying for the world cup.

Anyway, I know its comforting for soccer fans to think that everyone outside Australia loves soccer, and if that makes you happy, keep yourself in denial.

But soccer's more popular than AFL in China - that all that matter's for this forum.

Where on earth have people come up with this idea that soccer crowds (and soccer) only started with the A-league?

Study history please -

Soccer clubs have been around in Australia about as long as Aussie rules clubs. So unlike basketball, it's not as though clubs have just sprung up. You need to understand that what the A-league has done is focussed most people's passion (who already followed soccer) to well-organised and marketable teams. Very smart.

Did you know that some NSL games used to get over 20,000 people? Do you know which teams got these crowds? Bet you don't know.

If anything's gonna fizzle - look at Brisbane lions. They have no substance. Losing supporters even though the AFL is pumping so much of your hard earned cash into that club. I'd be livid if I was an AFL fan. Christ, even Melbourne Victory's got more members than that club. And what about North Melb - who says that won't fizzle just like basketball teams....

 

[genghiskhan]

But soccer's more popular than AFL in China - that all that matter's for this forum.

Where on earth have people come up with this idea that soccer crowds (and soccer) only started with the A-league?

Study history please -

Soccer clubs have been around in Australia about as long as Aussie rules clubs. So unlike basketball, it's not as though clubs have just sprung up. You need to understand that what the A-league has done is focussed most people's passion (who already followed soccer) to well-organised and marketable teams. Very smart.

Did you know that some NSL games used to get over 20,000 people? Do you know which teams got these crowds? Bet you don't know.

If anything's gonna fizzle - look at Brisbane lions. They have no substance. Losing supporters even though the AFL is pumping so much of your hard earned cash into that club. I'd be livid if I was an AFL fan. Christ, even Melbourne Victory's got more members than that club. And what about North Melb - who says that won't fizzle just like basketball teams....

Indeed you are right. Soccer is more popular than football in China. It is also more popular in Africa, the US, Europe, and the Virgin islands. I am not disputing that. I just find it interesting that soccer fans find it so important to believe that the entire world outside Australia loves soccer, when it does not. For every one person who soccer matters to, there are 19 people who couldn't give a stuff about it. Some of them might watch the world cup when it comes around, but they really don't care.

The myth of global domination is a big part of soccer's marketing, and judging by posters of your kind trying so hard to defend the myth, it is an effective marketing strategy. However, it is a myth.

 

[The Frederick]

I don't know where you are getting your figures from. By all means post them if you have them. I live in China. I see plenty of people playing basketball and hope to emulate Yao Ming, and meet plenty of Chinese tell me that soccer is not very popular. Surely if soccer was as popular as you say it is, a country with almost a billion and a half people could do a better job in qualifying for the world cup.

Anyway, I know its comforting for soccer fans to think that everyone outside Australia loves soccer, and if that makes you happy, keep yourself in denial.

Football is the most covered sport in the Chinese media, although in recent years basketball has also risen to prominence. National competitions are generally televised on CCTV-5 - the Sports Channel. Guangdong Television reserves rights, however, for the English Premier League and the UEFA Champions League. Since 1996, CCTV-5 has weekly programs televising live games in the Italian Serie A and German Bundesliga, in addition to Soccer Night (足球之夜), a weekday program dedicated to everything football. Shanghai's Dongfang Sports channel also has regular football coverage.
In addition, peer-to-peer sharing programs such as PPLive and PPStream stream football coverage in almost all of the world's major competitions and all major European Leagues, and as a result have become a cheap source of football programming worldwide, even for non-Chinese speaking people.

**

 

[The Frederick]

The myth of global domination is a big part of soccer's marketing, and judging by posters of your kind trying so hard to defend the myth, it is an effective marketing strategy. However, it is a myth.

Assoc. football is a major (read: either biggest or second biggest or something like that) sport in almost every country. The only exceptions are India, the US, Canada, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand.

 

[Subprime]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2254561,00.html

Extract from the article above:

The Premier League's radical announcement yesterday about adding an extra fixture to the calendar that would be staged overseas reflects a growing anxiety about the threat to its popularity in foreign markets, with its reach in China, potentially the greatest mass market, extending to only 0.02% of the population.

Despite regular claims that Premier League matches reap audiences of 1bn, yesterday's proposals explode the hyperbole. "There is not a big overseas market," said an executive at one leading Premier League club. "People talk about it and the numbers of people interested but, in fact, it is very small. This is a way of driving interest. My view is that the Premier League has to develop to survive."

That accounts for the unanimous support among club chairmen for the plan that bears clear similarities to a proposal by the gridiron organiser, the National Football League. It has mooted the expansion of its season to 17 dates from the current 16 after the National Basketball Association took the Houston Rockets and Sacramento Kings to China to play two pre-season games in Beijing and Shanghai in October 2004 with enormous success.

Very little of the £625m income from the Premier League's three-year overseas deal comes from China and it is fearful enough to sell itself short there in return for long-term growth. In an attempt to build the brand with new partners abroad the league sold its broadcast rights for mainland China to a pay-tv company, Win TV, which has only 300,000 subscribers. Premier League executives hope taking the mountain to Mohammed will help their competition compete with the US leviathans.

 

[The Frederick]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2254561,00.html

Extract from the article above:

The Premier League's radical announcement yesterday about adding an extra fixture to the calendar that would be staged overseas reflects a growing anxiety about the threat to its popularity in foreign markets, with its reach in China, potentially the greatest mass market, extending to only 0.02% of the population.

Despite regular claims that Premier League matches reap audiences of 1bn, yesterday's proposals explode the hyperbole. "There is not a big overseas market," said an executive at one leading Premier League club. "People talk about it and the numbers of people interested but, in fact, it is very small. This is a way of driving interest. My view is that the Premier League has to develop to survive."

That accounts for the unanimous support among club chairmen for the plan that bears clear similarities to a proposal by the gridiron organiser, the National Football League. It has mooted the expansion of its season to 17 dates from the current 16 after the National Basketball Association took the Houston Rockets and Sacramento Kings to China to play two pre-season games in Beijing and Shanghai in October 2004 with enormous success.

Very little of the £625m income from the Premier League's three-year overseas deal comes from China and it is fearful enough to sell itself short there in return for long-term growth. In an attempt to build the brand with new partners abroad the league sold its broadcast rights for mainland China to a pay-tv company, Win TV, which has only 300,000 subscribers. Premier League executives hope taking the mountain to Mohammed will help their competition compete with the US leviathans.

Yes, but see, the Premier League isn't the only league in assoc. football. It's not like AFL.

 

[Subprime]

Yes, but see, the Premier League isn't the only league in assoc. football. It's not like AFL.

Thanks for the insight but the EPL is the major league of soccer.

 

[The Frederick]

Thanks for the insight but the EPL is the major league of soccer.

No it's not. There are five big leagues.

 

[Subprime]

No it's not. There are five big leagues.

Well you may be right but perhaps you could provide some details on an indicator like the value of the TV rights so we can compare them?

 

[The Frederick]

Dunno where I'd find them.

 

[Subprime]

Dunno where I'd find them.

That's surprising, sorry I assumed with your ability to inform us on Chinese TV schedules this request would be a snip.

 

[genghiskhan]

**

So where are the ratings figures ? You wont find them because Chinese TV is not ratings driven.

Almost every night, China also shows a movie about the Chinese military fighting the Japanese but I am not sure how many people watch those movies. In fact, I was on Chinese TV three times a week for two months, but no one ever stopped me on the street. In China, basically anything they can get cheaply they will put on, and repeat it.

As I said before, soccer is much more popular than football, and in most countries, far more popular than any other sport. However, for every person that cares about it, there are 19 who don't. Even Brazil, the world champions, struggle to average 10,000 for their club games. The world does not unite behind soccer. Instead, a minority of people in countries around the world get together and make lots of noise that the entire world stands with them. It doesn't.

 

[Hoops]

Assoc. football is a major (read: either biggest or second biggest or something like that) sport in almost every country. The only exceptions are India, the US, Canada, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand.

You are forgetting that a good part of the world lives in poverty, where trying to survive takes precedence over sport. so in a lot of those countries where soccer is undoubtedly #1, The interest levels there per a capita would be lower than that for Football in NSW and Qld

BTW I thought soccer would be #1 in South Africa

 

[The Frederick]

You are forgetting that a good part of the world lives in poverty, where trying to survive takes precedence over sport. so in a lot of those countrys where soccer is undoubtedly #1, The interest levels there per a capita would be lower than that for Football in NSW and Qld

BTW I thought soccer would be #1 in South Africa

Assoc. football is big among blacks in SA, while whites play cricket and rugby. It probably is the biggest sport in terms of participation and interest.

 

[vinnie]

Thanks for the insight but the EPL is the major league of soccer.

If EPL is the major league, how come NONE of the last 10 players of the year actually play in that league?

Do you know any of these players - KaKa, Cannavaro, Ronaldo, Ronaldino, Figo, Zidane? - you name it.

Guess what - none of them play in the EPL!!!!

Fool.

 

[randyzany]

So where are the ratings figures ? You wont find them because Chinese TV is not ratings driven.

Almost every night, China also shows a movie about the Chinese military fighting the Japanese but I am not sure how many people watch those movies. In fact, I was on Chinese TV three times a week for two months, but no one ever stopped me on the street. In China, basically anything they can get cheaply they will put on, and repeat it.

As I said before, soccer is much more popular than football, and in most countries, far more popular than any other sport. However, for every person that cares about it, there are 19 who don't. Even Brazil, the world champions, struggle to average 10,000 for their club games. The world does not unite behind soccer. Instead, a minority of people in countries around the world get together and make lots of noise that the entire world stands with them. It doesn't.

You have gotta be joking. Mate, you're in denial if you seriously believe all the crap you've just posted. In the Americas it's only in Canada and the US that the beautiful game isn't numero uno. In Africa and Europe the same thing no other game can hold a handle to soccer, it's by far and away the most popular sport. It's only in Asia where soccer popularity differs from country to country but it's guaranteed to be among the top 3 in any given asian country. Don't let your hatred or disdain of soccer blind you from the truth or you risk coming across as a deluded fool.

 

[Subprime]

If EPL is the major league, how come NONE of the last 10 players of the year actually play in that league?

Do you know any of these players - KaKa, Cannavaro, Ronaldo, Ronaldino, Figo, Zidane? - you name it.

Guess what - none of them play in the EPL!!!!

Fool.

I understand that there are cultural reasons why players from a latin background prefer to play in Italy or Spain.

If your suggesting that those leagues are bigger than the EPL I'd like to see some evidence.

 

[genghiskhan]

You have gotta be joking. Mate, you're in denial if you seriously believe all the crap you've just posted. In the Americas it's only in Canada and the US that the beautiful game isn't numero uno. In Africa and Europe the same thing no other game can hold a handle to soccer, it's by far and away the most popular sport. It's only in Asia where soccer popularity differs from country to country but it's guaranteed to be among the top 3 in any given asian country. Don't let your hatred or disdain of soccer blind you from the truth or you risk coming across as a deluded fool.

You should learn to read. "As I said before, soccer is much more popular than football, and in most countries, far more popular than any other sport." Just because because a sport is the most popular doesn't mean it unites the country. Australian football is the most popular sport in Australia, but for every one person who watches the grand final, there are 6 people who don't. It doesn't unite Australia.

As for world domination, there are 1.5 billion Indians who don't care, and who love cricket. That is the population of Europe and Africa combined. There is some interest in China, but from what I've seen there is more interest in basketball. So between these two countries, you have around three billion people not represented at the world cup, and really don't care that much about not being represented.

Then we can go to countries like Brazil with a population of 180 million or so, but can't find enough fans to average more than 10,000 to club games. So I have to question how much Brazilians even care about it. Yes it is more popular than any other sport in Brazil, but really how much do they care if they refuse to attend games.

 

[greenhat]

Andyzany, by saying soccer's not huge across Asia you are feeding into Genghis and Hoops' argument. About 60% of all the world's population is in Asia.

 

[Professor Knowall]

O.K. - I'll willingly concede soccer is overall the worlds most popular sport (though not in all parts of the world). No problems with that.

But what is the point of all this argument - besides nothing???

 

[vinnie]

I understand that there are cultural reasons why players from a latin background prefer to play in Italy or Spain.

If your suggesting that those leagues are bigger than the EPL I'd like to see some evidence.

My view is this:

EPL has higher sponsorship/revenue.

Italy and Spain (probably also France and Germay) has highest quality, and highest player bills.

So where's this all leading? They're all big leagues compared to the rest of the world.

 

[genghiskhan]

O.K. - I'll willingly concede soccer is overall the worlds most popular sport (though not in all parts of the world). No problems with that.

But what is the point of all this argument - besides nothing???

For me, the argument sheds light on sports marketing. I find it interesting that people justify a sport by saying the whole world is watching it. If you challenge that boast by saying the whole world is not watching, they get really defensive and call you a liar.

 

[Hoops]

I just don't like how a lot of people who don't like football, will pull you up when you call football the Australian game and say, How can you call it the Australian game when it's not the most popular sport in 2 states that represent over 1/2 the country? And are at the same time are happy to claim soccer as the world sport where 'X' countries that represent over 1/2 the worlds population show less interest per a capital in soccer than Football does in Qld and NSW.

 

[genghiskhan]

I just don't like how a lot of people who don't like football, will pull you up when you call football the Australian game and say, How can you call it the Australian game when it's not the most popular sport in 2 states that represent over 1/2 the country? And are at the same time are happy to claim soccer as the world sport where 'X' countries that represent over 1/2 the worlds population show less interest per a capital in soccer than Football does in Qld and NSW.

Good point. If football can't be the Australian game because it doesn't dominate in every Australian state, then soccer can't be the world game if half the world's population doesn't give a stuff about it.