Roast Cardinal George Pell retains honorary role at Richmond

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Goldust said:
If a player was on murder charges, would we stand him down?
Click to expand...

Depends

Is he a.player earning a wage, or an honorary position?

What roles and functions would we be standing him down from?
 
telsor said:
So you're punishing people due to an allegation, based largely on a group that has clearly been driving an agenda for some time...


So if we made the grand final, and some group made an accusation against Dusty in the week leading up to it, would you think he should stand aside until cleared?

We're talking a guy who has several accusations against him already, that have been shown not just unprovable, but clearly made up (as in, he hadn't been in that location for over a year...), and even the accusers have admitted it wasn't true...but which the ABC still alludes to it being true....

I'm not a Catholic (I'm an atheist), but the witch hunt against Pell has been appalling. If he sued the ABC over it, I dare say he'd have a better chance of succeeding that the current case against him has.
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At the risk of starting world war three .... a group driving an agenda??????
Yeah, an agenda that has seen dozens of priests outed, jailed, defrocked and shamed.
As someone who was schooled in the Christian brother -and has actually had a paedophile priest dine (years ago) in my family home, there is nothing sinister about allegations against the Catholic Church nor its officials.
 

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Andrew Krakouer was charged with assault in December 2006 if I recall. He played in 2007 and his charges were upgraded during that year to grievous bodily harm for which he was ultimately jailed. I believe he was delisted at end of 07. May have even played his 100th game during the 2007 year.

Haere Ra
 
Goldust said:
My guess is a player would be suspended from club activities, including on-field if that eventuated.
Click to expand...

Is that player in an honorary position though?
 
telsor said:
So you're punishing people due to an allegation, based largely on a group that has clearly been driving an agenda for some time...


So if we made the grand final, and some group made an accusation against Dusty in the week leading up to it, would you think he should stand aside until cleared?

We're talking a guy who has several accusations against him already, that have been shown not just unprovable, but clearly made up (as in, he hadn't been in that location for over a year...), and even the accusers have admitted it wasn't true...but which the ABC still alludes to it being true....

I'm not a Catholic (I'm an atheist), but the witch hunt against Pell has been appalling. If he sued the ABC over it, I dare say he'd have a better chance of succeeding that the current case against him has.
Click to expand...

I think I know what you're saying but I think you're over simplyfiing a very complex issue with your post that many of us could never fathom, this is a very layered issue and the more you peel it, the more it stinks.

Innocent til proven guilty yeah yeah yeah, but this is a man that stood by and defended one of the worst predators in Australian history in
Gerald Ridsdale.

I would be all for the club to have him step down from this amazingly bullshit role until the case is done.
 
Tiger_4_Life said:
I think I know what you're saying but I think you're over simplyfiing a very complex issue with your post that many of us could never fathom, this is a very layered issue and the more you peel it, the more it stinks.

Innocent til proven guilty yeah yeah yeah, but this is a man that stood by and defended one of the worst predators in Australian history in
Gerald Ridsdale.

I would be all for the club to have him step down from this amazingly bullshit role until the case is done.
Click to expand...
And his answers when questioned by a royal commission show that he is a shit human being with a complete lack of empathy for those abused under his watch.
 
telsor said:
So you're punishing people due to an allegation, based largely on a group that has clearly been driving an agenda for some time...


So if we made the grand final, and some group made an accusation against Dusty in the week leading up to it, would you think he should stand aside until cleared?

We're talking a guy who has several accusations against him already, that have been shown not just unprovable, but clearly made up (as in, he hadn't been in that location for over a year...), and even the accusers have admitted it wasn't true...but which the ABC still alludes to it being true....

I'm not a Catholic (I'm an atheist), but the witch hunt against Pell has been appalling. If he sued the ABC over it, I dare say he'd have a better chance of succeeding that the current case against him has.
Click to expand...

As I posted somewhere, else unless you were a catholic that went through their schools & churches as I did, you don't really have a sense of how predatory, creepy & evil this organisation was. Have a read about Brother Weston. Now he was not convicted of anything while I was at secondary school, just at a the school he was at prior to moving a bit west.

This organisation was overseen by Archbishop Pell in the 1990s. & his organisation's treatment of victims of sexual abuse by clergy was appalling in my book.
For that I would've severed his connection with the club.

On the latest charges bringing Pell back to Melbourne I must admit it is strange, I mean there have been 235 charges & convictions of priests/brothers since 1993.

See the attached list.

http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/235

here's the first 10 or so.
  1. Fr Michael Aulsebrook

    In the Melbourne County Court on 22 August 2011, Father Michael Scott Aulsebrook (a member of the Catholic religious order Salesians of Don Bosco) was sentenced to two years' jail (with 15 months suspended, serving nine months behind bars) for indecent assaults of a boy, aged 12, at Salesian College "Rupertswood" (a boarding school) in Sunbury, Victoria, in 1983. This boy was not Aulsebrook’s only victim. See more from Broken Rites here.

  2. Fr Wilfred Baker

    After action by Broken Rites, Father Wilfred James Baker (also known as Father Bill Baker or Fr Billy Baker), Melbourne archdiocese, was sentenced to 4 years jail (eligible for parole after 2 years) for offences against boys. See the Broken Rites story here.

  3. Fr Charlie Barnett

    Charles Alfred Barnett, who ministered for the Vincentian order in Catholic parishes around Australia for 20 years until the mid-1990s, was sentenced in South Australia in August 2010 to at least four years for sexual offences against boys in that state. He is also facing complaints in other Australian states. See more from Broken Rites here.

  4. Father Roger Michael Bellemore

    This Marist priest was sentenced in Tasmania in 2006 to five years' jail (with parole after 3 years) for offences against schoolboys. After he had spent nine months in jail, the appeal court granted him a re-trial. In February 2008, another jury found Bellemore guilty and he was sentenced to four years' jail. See the Broken Rites story here.

  5. Br Robert Best

    Christian Brother Robert Charles Best (also known as Brother Bob Best) was convicted in Melbourne in 1996 for sexual offences committed against one of his schoolboy victims. On 8 August 2011, after being convicted again for multiple offences (including buggery) against some more of his victims, he was sentenced (at the age of 70) to 14 years and nine months (eligible for parole after serving 11 years and three months). See the Broken Rites story here.

  6. Fr Tony Bongiorno

    The Melbourne Catholic archdiocese commissioner on sexual abuse, Mr Peter O'Callagahan, QC, has upheld complaints that Father Anthony Salvatore Bongiorno sexually abused boys who were under his supervision. And, furthermore, the Victorian government's Crimes Compensation Tribunal has awarded compensation to at least one of Bongriorno's victims. When he was training for the priesthood, Bongiorno was in the same seminary group as George Pell and Denis Hart, both of whom eventually became archbishops. See the Broken Rites story here.

  7. Warren Booth


    Warren Douglas Booth was training to become a priest when he sexually assaulted a 12-year-old boy in the showers at a public pool in Campbelltown in Sydney's south-west. Booth was sentenced in 1996 to 12 months jail.
  8. Fr Tom Brennan, Newcastle, NSW

    In August 2012, police charged Father Thomas Brennan (of the Maitland-Newcastle diocese) with 10 counts of sexually assaulting a young male while Brennan was the parish priest (in the early 1980s) at Waratah, in Newcastle, north of Sydney. He was also charged with having failed to report the sex-crimes (in the 1970s) of another priest who was under Brennan's supervision. Brennan was ordered to appear in court on 25 September 2012 on all these charges but he failed to appear and he died five days later. See more from Broken Rites here.

  9. Fr Desmond Brown

    Father Desmond Joseph Brown, Redemptorist order, Victoria and NSW, non-custodial sentence, for indecent assault of a female.

  10. Fr Rex Brown

    Father Paul Rex Brown (once a senior priest in the Lismore Catholic diocese in New South Wales) was convicted in Queensland in 1996 for possessing child pornography. Police could have charged Brown with serious child sexual-assault offences but he chose to plead guilty to the lesser charge of child pornography. See the Broken Rites full story here.

  11. Fr Neil Byrne


    In Brisbane on 7 March 2012, the Very Rev Dr Neil Joseph Byrne was sentenced to nine months in jail (suspended for two years) after he pleaded guilty to possessing and making child-exploitation material. As a lecturer in a seminary, Byrne has been involved in the training of Australian Catholic priests. See more from Broken Rites here.
 
Goldust said:
If a player was on murder charges, would we stand him down?
Click to expand...

I would think so. But thats a player. As if they are going to perform while being investigated for murder? Completely different.
What about if Trent Cotchin gets arrested tomorrow on suspicion of murder. Do we sack him? Or do we put him on leave pending an outcome?
 
tora tora tora said:
As I posted somewhere, else unless you were a catholic that went through their schools & churches as I did, you don't really have a sense of how predatory, creepy & evil this organisation was. Have a read about Brother Weston. Now he was not convicted of anything while I was at secondary school, just at a the school he was at prior to moving a bit west.

This organisation was overseen by Archbishop Pell in the 1990s. & his organisation's treatment of victims of sexual abuse by clergy was appalling in my book.
For that I would've severed his connection with the club.

On the latest charges bringing Pell back to Melbourne I must admit it is strange, I mean there have been 235 charges & convictions of priests/brothers since 1993.

See the attached list.

http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/235

here's the first 10 or so.
  1. Fr Michael Aulsebrook

    In the Melbourne County Court on 22 August 2011, Father Michael Scott Aulsebrook (a member of the Catholic religious order Salesians of Don Bosco) was sentenced to two years' jail (with 15 months suspended, serving nine months behind bars) for indecent assaults of a boy, aged 12, at Salesian College "Rupertswood" (a boarding school) in Sunbury, Victoria, in 1983. This boy was not Aulsebrook’s only victim. See more from Broken Rites here.

  2. Fr Wilfred Baker

    After action by Broken Rites, Father Wilfred James Baker (also known as Father Bill Baker or Fr Billy Baker), Melbourne archdiocese, was sentenced to 4 years jail (eligible for parole after 2 years) for offences against boys. See the Broken Rites story here.

  3. Fr Charlie Barnett

    Charles Alfred Barnett, who ministered for the Vincentian order in Catholic parishes around Australia for 20 years until the mid-1990s, was sentenced in South Australia in August 2010 to at least four years for sexual offences against boys in that state. He is also facing complaints in other Australian states. See more from Broken Rites here.

  4. Father Roger Michael Bellemore

    This Marist priest was sentenced in Tasmania in 2006 to five years' jail (with parole after 3 years) for offences against schoolboys. After he had spent nine months in jail, the appeal court granted him a re-trial. In February 2008, another jury found Bellemore guilty and he was sentenced to four years' jail. See the Broken Rites story here.

  5. Br Robert Best

    Christian Brother Robert Charles Best (also known as Brother Bob Best) was convicted in Melbourne in 1996 for sexual offences committed against one of his schoolboy victims. On 8 August 2011, after being convicted again for multiple offences (including buggery) against some more of his victims, he was sentenced (at the age of 70) to 14 years and nine months (eligible for parole after serving 11 years and three months). See the Broken Rites story here.

  6. Fr Tony Bongiorno

    The Melbourne Catholic archdiocese commissioner on sexual abuse, Mr Peter O'Callagahan, QC, has upheld complaints that Father Anthony Salvatore Bongiorno sexually abused boys who were under his supervision. And, furthermore, the Victorian government's Crimes Compensation Tribunal has awarded compensation to at least one of Bongriorno's victims. When he was training for the priesthood, Bongiorno was in the same seminary group as George Pell and Denis Hart, both of whom eventually became archbishops. See the Broken Rites story here.

  7. Warren Booth


    Warren Douglas Booth was training to become a priest when he sexually assaulted a 12-year-old boy in the showers at a public pool in Campbelltown in Sydney's south-west. Booth was sentenced in 1996 to 12 months jail.
  8. Fr Tom Brennan, Newcastle, NSW

    In August 2012, police charged Father Thomas Brennan (of the Maitland-Newcastle diocese) with 10 counts of sexually assaulting a young male while Brennan was the parish priest (in the early 1980s) at Waratah, in Newcastle, north of Sydney. He was also charged with having failed to report the sex-crimes (in the 1970s) of another priest who was under Brennan's supervision. Brennan was ordered to appear in court on 25 September 2012 on all these charges but he failed to appear and he died five days later. See more from Broken Rites here.

  9. Fr Desmond Brown

    Father Desmond Joseph Brown, Redemptorist order, Victoria and NSW, non-custodial sentence, for indecent assault of a female.

  10. Fr Rex Brown

    Father Paul Rex Brown (once a senior priest in the Lismore Catholic diocese in New South Wales) was convicted in Queensland in 1996 for possessing child pornography. Police could have charged Brown with serious child sexual-assault offences but he chose to plead guilty to the lesser charge of child pornography. See the Broken Rites full story here.

  11. Fr Neil Byrne


    In Brisbane on 7 March 2012, the Very Rev Dr Neil Joseph Byrne was sentenced to nine months in jail (suspended for two years) after he pleaded guilty to possessing and making child-exploitation material. As a lecturer in a seminary, Byrne has been involved in the training of Australian Catholic priests. See more from Broken Rites here.
Click to expand...
Add murderer to that snippet on bongiorno...
 
I Rock said:
Let's face it, Pell and his Cronies are pond scum. It's not a great look and I really hope the Club has the fortitude to do the right thing and cut all connections with the ankle.
Click to expand...

Don't bet your house on it
 

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Goldust said:
If a player was on murder charges, would we stand him down?
Click to expand...
Dutin Martin was almost oon murder charges during Chostick Saga.

Media wanted Richmond to act and suspend him for 12 months.

Inocent until proven guilty otherwise big egg on many faces.
 
Cevap_Roll said:
Dutin Martin was almost oon murder charges during Chostick Saga.

Media wanted Richmond to act and suspend him for 12 months.

Inocent until proven guilty otherwise big egg on many faces.
Click to expand...
Pell is at the very least is guilty of hiding known Tamps (anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves), that alone should have the prick rotting in Gaol.
 
I Rock said:
Pell is at the very least is guilty of hiding known Tamps (anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves), that alone should have the prick rotting in Gaol.
Click to expand...
I know nothing. Just comenting on Martin and how it can be dangerous to act on allegations alone.
 
I Rock said:
Pell is at the very least is guilty of hiding known Tamps (anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves), that alone should have the prick rotting in Gaol.
Click to expand...

Having grown up a catholic and even being an alter boy in the Ballarat diocese and had family members work with perhaps the worst of them all monsenigor Day I feel I have some knowledge of the situation. Firstly none of the schools Pell worked at whilst he was at them had any reports of paedaphilia. Many of those victims who have made allegations have been proven demonstrably wrong. With Pell in different towns etc when they recount the dates of abuse. Memories are notoriously faulty. It is interesting Paul Bongiorno the political journalist lived with Ridsdale in Warnabol. He has been very critical of Pell yet he lived with Ridsdale. He is still on TV and radio and nobody questions it.

You need to also consider Pell is not liked by many senior cardinals as he has been tasked with cleaning up the rampant corruption in the Catholic Church. Please read some of the stories of money laundering and the billions of dollars of fraud committed by elements of the church.

I personally have many issues with the Catholic Church. When all this first broke and indeed even today an internal enquiry needs to be undertaken and made public. But there are many people determined to bring down Pell not least many in the church, the abc and indeed the Victorian police who have publicly admitted their culpability in this disgraceful period.

Stephen Milne and Leigh Montana where allowed to play during the inquest over rape allegations. Many saw them as guilty, yet they were found to be innocent. There are two sides to all stories and to cast someone as guilty without knowing all the facts is irresponsible. It is a central Tennent to a democracy. Also just imagine if Pell's membership is revoked and is found innocent? What sort of club abondons one of its own when everyone else is? That sets a terrible culture. If he is guilty then it is immediately revoked and the club will not lose face.
 
telsor said:
So you're punishing people due to an allegation, based largely on a group that has clearly been driving an agenda for some time...


So if we made the grand final, and some group made an accusation against Dusty in the week leading up to it, would you think he should stand aside until cleared?

We're talking a guy who has several accusations against him already, that have been shown not just unprovable, but clearly made up (as in, he hadn't been in that location for over a year...), and even the accusers have admitted it wasn't true...but which the ABC still alludes to it being true....

I'm not a Catholic (I'm an atheist), but the witch hunt against Pell has been appalling. If he sued the ABC over it, I dare say he'd have a better chance of succeeding that the current case against him has.
Click to expand...
Basically you just support Pell cause you hate the ABC. You could have just said that and saved us the lecture.
 
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