Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Says 28 February. They must have known you were about to change your persona on BF and opened a file in advance
Carey or Ablett
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You guys are legit dumb. It’s not me.
But whoever this Richmond guy is keep going these people deserve the trolling actually sick of them.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
I am an expert in forensic linguistic characteristics, and your expressions are identical to the 36 other persona you have used on BF
I could hazard a guess…
“It’s not me”
lol. Now I’m in a recurring existential crisis.
lol. Now I’m in a recurring existential crisis.
I’m an expert in forensic linguistic characteristics too, and what’s more I get paid a really high salary.
And I agree with your findings 100%
VinnieB
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And their wives walk crooked…
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Don't like either of them but I would say Ablett was better.
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Wayne overall.
But Gary for the highlights package.
But Gary for the highlights package.
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Ablett played one and a bit seasons on the wing: 1984 (and some of '85)
He mainly played as a roaming forward. I think even labelling him as a half forward flanker is a little bit misleading because from 1985 onwards, he was basically Geelong's "go to" guy up forward. He was the match winner and everyone else knew it. His teammates looked for him and directed the ball his way. Not like he was playing the "graveyard" position of HFF and trying to eke out a few scoring opportunistic scoring chances.
He was shifted to the goal square as a permanent full forward in 1993, but he played at full forward on a semi-regular basis over the preceding 7 or 8 years. If only for a quarter here or a quarter there, or a few minutes of a quarter. His coaches gave him the license to roam wherever he wanted in order to get on the end of play and receive the ball.
e.g. Ablett kicked 9 goals in the 1989 Grand Final as a FULL FORWARD.... not as a half forward flanker.
There's a lot of similarities between Gary Ablett and Buddy Franklin in their running patterns and positional play. Both roamed wherever they wanted around the forward line and moved right up the field to centre/wing to find the footy if they were starved of action... Both of them eventually settled into playing as a deep forward (FF) later in their careers.
Despite the obvious similarity, people describe Buddy as a full forward and yet Cats fans maintain the fantasy that Ablett was a wing/HFF
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Hmm not sure about that. He was definitely the target - no question at all - but there were plenty of forward entries where Brownless was in the square (the entire first quarter for starters). Even his goals in the second quarter, Ablett was in the pocket, not the focal point. At times he doubled back and led from the square for sure, but I can remember most centre bounces Ablett was somewhere between the goal square and centre half forward - typical flanker.
Very different game then of course - players like Ablett had absolute free rein to roam where he wanted. He read the game so well he would get to the key spots before others.
Both behind Lethal, but Carey > Ablett Snr.
The GOAT top 3 IMO.
The GOAT top 3 IMO.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
I said GAS played wing / mid for a "period". What didn't you understand by that term? You then go onto confirm, "Ablett played one and a bit seasons on the wing: 1984 (and some of '85)"
He played mostly half forward throughout all of 1985. Played a lot of games full forward as he buggered his knee during the preseason and came back later on.
1987-1992 he was predominately half forward. Even spent some time in the back line during 1987, 1989 and 1992.
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So if the Question is who was the best player then in my opinion it was comfortably Ablett.Then if u factor in leadership of Carey and how and he led Roos to a few premierships and how he had greater influence than Ablett did on those around him gap closes further.
To me however Carey is the classic big fish in a small pond guy.Dominated a domestic game.Hypothetically obviously but if the whole world grew up playing Afl and there were higher levels than the AFL Ablett would still be a match up nightmare because he could play in pocket or flank and have stints in midfield.Absolute freak.The only player when put in that context who had all the skills of the game..Carey at 191cm was probably only 60/40 in matchups against Jakovich for example.While obviously a superstar i dont think he got to the stratospheric level that Ablett could..From memory Ablett feared nobody from a match up perspective...
I Would truly just watch games for Ablett alone.I remember in 93 0r 94 when Swans were at there worst watching a game against cats at the gym and the only interest in the game was whether Ablett could kick the goalkeeping record and he was on 5 at quarter time.Commentstors thought he was a chance.
To me however Carey is the classic big fish in a small pond guy.Dominated a domestic game.Hypothetically obviously but if the whole world grew up playing Afl and there were higher levels than the AFL Ablett would still be a match up nightmare because he could play in pocket or flank and have stints in midfield.Absolute freak.The only player when put in that context who had all the skills of the game..Carey at 191cm was probably only 60/40 in matchups against Jakovich for example.While obviously a superstar i dont think he got to the stratospheric level that Ablett could..From memory Ablett feared nobody from a match up perspective...
I Would truly just watch games for Ablett alone.I remember in 93 0r 94 when Swans were at there worst watching a game against cats at the gym and the only interest in the game was whether Ablett could kick the goalkeeping record and he was on 5 at quarter time.Commentstors thought he was a chance.
Duck was 194cm tall.
Certainly played smaller than his listed height. Exceptional at ground level when the ball hit the deck.
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If he wasn't the greatest then he was one of the greatest contested and pack marking players of all time. Consistently took marks he had no right to get anywhere near.
No doubt.
Definitely the best all-round footballer I've ever seen.
Seriously, he could have been one of the best ever defenders as Denis Pagan often shifted him into defense when they were under the pump or had to hold out a lead in the final minutes of a game.
He was also exceptional on the ball.
I still believe Pagan orchestrated the perfect balance between attack and defense. I always wished Geelong had Pagan as he would have ensured our back six was always sound.
Carey.
Noidnadroj
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Ablett never won the games most prestigious individual OR team award. He won his own teams best player once. In 4 x Grand Finals he excelled just once, and failed dismally twice. GAS was an outstanding player, but it’s a team sport and this can’t really be a genuine thread.
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Yet Carey never played anything better than a reasonable grand final.
Youre right, it is a team sport.
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Modern tactics have meant the traditional role of centre half forward has largely disappeared from the game. By "modern tactics", I mean defensive zones + holding onto possession at all costs (and not so many long kicks out of defence to a contest)
Key forwards will still use their fitness to get up the field and create an option for their teammates... But you just don't see the classic hit-up CHF like Wayne Carey dominating games as the team's focal point anymore. Nick Riewoldt and a young Travis Cloke were probably the last of a dying breed. Our game has moved beyond midfielders & half backs looking for their CHF on the lead and bombing it long to them and hoping they can outmark 2 defenders.
For younger AFL fans who didn't watch much footy prior to 2005 or 2010, it's probably a little bit difficult for them to understand just how important and dominant Wayne Carey was for his team. There is a tendency for people to fall back on the goal kicking stats (and highlights) and downgrade the likes of Carey, Chris Grant, Stephen Kernahan, Dermott Brereton, Royce Hart, etc... The truth is these guys were greats of the game. The number of goals they kicked (compared to full forwards such as Lockett and Dunstall) is irrelevant. FFs were always measured by how many goals they kicked. CHF's were not.
Centre Half Forward was always regarded as the most difficult position to play... and difficult to play well. A champion Centre Half Forward was always more highly regarded and more important than a prolific goal kicking full forward because they were right in the thick of the action and they could control the game. A bit like the modern day midfield beasts such as Bontempelli, Petracca, Cripps, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin...
Carey was the MVP of AFL footy right through the 90's just like Bont and Petracca are the current day Alpha dogs. The guys you couldn't stop who carried their team every week.
Ablett was a freak of a footballer. An absolute freak and one of the greatest players of all time. But so too was Wayne Carey. Carey was so good that from 1993-2000, many good judges (ex-players who weren't prone to hype & bullshit) were openly gushing in their admiration for him, saying he was the best CHF ever, better than Hart, and maybe even the greatest player ever. The media attention was similar to Chris Judd at West Coast - everyone knew from their 3rd or 4th season that we were witnessing the career of an all time great.
North had a great team in the 90's... 2 flags and 7 successive Prelims... But they wouldn't have been half as good without Carey dominating every weekend. He not only made his teammates walk taller, but he brought them into the game. He was constantly taking on 2 or 3 defenders, kicking 3 or 4 goals per game and also creating another 3 or 4 goals for his teammates.
Ablett was a brilliant individualist. He used his skill, raw power and athleticism to take big hangers, kick incredible goals, and make his opponents look like hacks on his way to kicking 8,9,10. Except he wasn't handpassing to teammates and bringing them into the game like Carey did and setting them up for goals. He was doing u-turns and taking 50 metre snaps at goal. On his best days out, he would end up with 8 goals, 7 behinds... Or 10 goals, 8 behinds... and the Cats would sometimes still lose! But nobody can turn it on with a big bag in every game. Not even God. Ablett also had his average days where he would kick 3-4 goals, or the occasional quiet game where he'd kick only 1 or 2. Carey would have games when he kicked 3 goals and still be BOG.
Ablett's team-mate Billy Brownless often said he would just sit back and watch him go. That he felt more like a spectator than a player. I think that kind of sums it up. Brownless was very talented footballer who made the All Australian team just once his career: in 1991, the same year that Ablett inexplicably decided to "retire" just a few weeks prior to Round 1 before returning in Round 13 and struggling his way through the remainder of the season. With Ablett largely out of the picture, Brownless was able to blossom and have his best season.
As another comparison to Carey... Corey McKernan dominated in 1996. He was voted MVP and polled equal most Brownlow votes. But he owed a lot of that to Carey who was at the peak of his career (and North Best and fairest that year.) I don't think McKernan would've been anywhere near as dominant in another team. North's opponents were so Carey-conscious, they gave McKernan way too much latitude.
Conclusion: if we're to judge them on raw ability and look at them in isolation, then Ablett was probably the greatest player ever. Unstoppable when he got in the mood. But if we are to judge them by the impact they had on every game and helping their team to victory, then I would rank Wayne Carey up there with Leigh Matthews as the best player I've seen.
I don't think there is a lot in it, to be honest. But I just get annoyed when I see people posting horseshit like "Ablett was CLEARLY better than Carey." That just says to me that you either didn't watch them play, or you were too young to understand what you were watching and you're just basing your opinion on highlights & goal tallies.
Key forwards will still use their fitness to get up the field and create an option for their teammates... But you just don't see the classic hit-up CHF like Wayne Carey dominating games as the team's focal point anymore. Nick Riewoldt and a young Travis Cloke were probably the last of a dying breed. Our game has moved beyond midfielders & half backs looking for their CHF on the lead and bombing it long to them and hoping they can outmark 2 defenders.
For younger AFL fans who didn't watch much footy prior to 2005 or 2010, it's probably a little bit difficult for them to understand just how important and dominant Wayne Carey was for his team. There is a tendency for people to fall back on the goal kicking stats (and highlights) and downgrade the likes of Carey, Chris Grant, Stephen Kernahan, Dermott Brereton, Royce Hart, etc... The truth is these guys were greats of the game. The number of goals they kicked (compared to full forwards such as Lockett and Dunstall) is irrelevant. FFs were always measured by how many goals they kicked. CHF's were not.
Centre Half Forward was always regarded as the most difficult position to play... and difficult to play well. A champion Centre Half Forward was always more highly regarded and more important than a prolific goal kicking full forward because they were right in the thick of the action and they could control the game. A bit like the modern day midfield beasts such as Bontempelli, Petracca, Cripps, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin...
Carey was the MVP of AFL footy right through the 90's just like Bont and Petracca are the current day Alpha dogs. The guys you couldn't stop who carried their team every week.
Ablett was a freak of a footballer. An absolute freak and one of the greatest players of all time. But so too was Wayne Carey. Carey was so good that from 1993-2000, many good judges (ex-players who weren't prone to hype & bullshit) were openly gushing in their admiration for him, saying he was the best CHF ever, better than Hart, and maybe even the greatest player ever. The media attention was similar to Chris Judd at West Coast - everyone knew from their 3rd or 4th season that we were witnessing the career of an all time great.
North had a great team in the 90's... 2 flags and 7 successive Prelims... But they wouldn't have been half as good without Carey dominating every weekend. He not only made his teammates walk taller, but he brought them into the game. He was constantly taking on 2 or 3 defenders, kicking 3 or 4 goals per game and also creating another 3 or 4 goals for his teammates.
Ablett was a brilliant individualist. He used his skill, raw power and athleticism to take big hangers, kick incredible goals, and make his opponents look like hacks on his way to kicking 8,9,10. Except he wasn't handpassing to teammates and bringing them into the game like Carey did and setting them up for goals. He was doing u-turns and taking 50 metre snaps at goal. On his best days out, he would end up with 8 goals, 7 behinds... Or 10 goals, 8 behinds... and the Cats would sometimes still lose! But nobody can turn it on with a big bag in every game. Not even God. Ablett also had his average days where he would kick 3-4 goals, or the occasional quiet game where he'd kick only 1 or 2. Carey would have games when he kicked 3 goals and still be BOG.
Ablett's team-mate Billy Brownless often said he would just sit back and watch him go. That he felt more like a spectator than a player. I think that kind of sums it up. Brownless was very talented footballer who made the All Australian team just once his career: in 1991, the same year that Ablett inexplicably decided to "retire" just a few weeks prior to Round 1 before returning in Round 13 and struggling his way through the remainder of the season. With Ablett largely out of the picture, Brownless was able to blossom and have his best season.
As another comparison to Carey... Corey McKernan dominated in 1996. He was voted MVP and polled equal most Brownlow votes. But he owed a lot of that to Carey who was at the peak of his career (and North Best and fairest that year.) I don't think McKernan would've been anywhere near as dominant in another team. North's opponents were so Carey-conscious, they gave McKernan way too much latitude.
Conclusion: if we're to judge them on raw ability and look at them in isolation, then Ablett was probably the greatest player ever. Unstoppable when he got in the mood. But if we are to judge them by the impact they had on every game and helping their team to victory, then I would rank Wayne Carey up there with Leigh Matthews as the best player I've seen.
I don't think there is a lot in it, to be honest. But I just get annoyed when I see people posting horseshit like "Ablett was CLEARLY better than Carey." That just says to me that you either didn't watch them play, or you were too young to understand what you were watching and you're just basing your opinion on highlights & goal tallies.
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Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Good post and I agree. I get annoyed when I read posters - notably Richmond supporters - who post things like comparing Ablett and Carey "can't really be a genuine thread" because Carey was so much better - Noidnadroj
Both are universally regarded as greats of the game along with Lethal and there are good reasons why
