Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion

[teagueyubeauty]

From what I have been reading, McKay is coming through as more of a midfield/forward type these days.

Akeui is going to be special. He has the sort of athleticism that people dream about. Good leap, good hands, good pace and an upside that's top level if he gets the development he needs.

Are you saying we might have actually found an NGA recruit worth something in our zone


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[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Dom Akuei is listed at 192cm and 76kg, although he has some outstanding athletic attributes he is far from a true KPP, more a third tall atm but he looks to have the ability to play in multiple positions, hopefully he shoots up a bit more around the 195cm mark, great to finally have a potential NGA prospect we can draft onto our list...

 

[Gethelred]

Dom Akuei is listed at 192cm and 76kg, although he has some outstanding athletic attributes he is far from a true KPP, more a third tall atm but he looks to have the ability to play in multiple positions, hopefully he shoots up a bit more around the 195cm mark, great to finally have a potential NGA prospect we can draft onto our list...

If you think about it, the Jones role does not immediately need to be huge; it's about choosing when to go (or just flying at everything) and sitting off your man. Look at Laverde at Essendon this year; it's been more about ball-read and athleticism than it is about size.

Heretier Lumumba was an absolute gun opposite Heath Shaw as a KPD, and was 188cm. It worked perfectly fine with Prestigiacomo holding the Hawkins of the world from the balldrop, and the other two marking and beating the second and third talls. We have the weapon that is Jacob Weitering; we may not need another titan, and instead look for additional speed and ball movement around him.

Provided you've got a plan to play a second tall if they're too big, 192cm is fine.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

If you think about it, the Jones role does not immediately need to be huge; it's about choosing when to go (or just flying at everything) and sitting off your man. Look at Laverde at Essendon this year; it's been more about ball-read and athleticism than it is about size.

Heretier Lumumba was an absolute gun opposite Heath Shaw as a KPD, and was 188cm. It worked perfectly fine with Prestigiacomo holding the Hawkins of the world from the balldrop, and the other two marking and beating the second and third talls. We have the weapon that is Jacob Weitering; we may not need another titan, and instead look for additional speed and ball movement around him.

Provided you've got a plan to play a second tall if they're too big, 192cm is fine.

Can't we draft a Jones replacement with a decent pick and let Akuei develop into his own man, maybe even as a tall wingman? The beauty of the Academy for mine is that it's random and cuts through all the nonsense and gives us a vested interest in players regardless of the pressures of picking for need. It helps in accumulating depth in that regard. I don't think it's just the saving of points that sees the vast majority of the better Academy players taken by the clubs they are already tied to (though that's about to change). It's a leveler and puts drafting into perspective.

 

[Gethelred]

Can't we draft a Jones replacement with a decent pick and let Akuei develop into his own man, maybe even as a tall wingman? The beauty of the Academy for mine is that it's random and cuts through all nonsense and gives us a vested interest in players regardless of the pressures of picking for need. It helps in accumulating depth in that regard. I don't think it's just the saving of points that sees the vast majority of the better Academy players taken by the clubs they are already tied to (though that's about to change). It's a leveler and puts drafting into perspective.

Hmmm...

I get what you're saying; it certainly makes sense that we'd let him develop into his own game. But here's my issue; at AFL level, you're not afforded a position purely from athletic traits. Pace and a leap alone don't make a footballer, otherwise Majak Daw would be a three time brownlow medallist.

You need to be able to wed those traits to a role, and so my question with Akuei becomes (if you want him on a wing) how does he go as an accumulator? Does he have a good read of the game? How often does he get to the correct positions?

The wing's the trickiest position on the ground to play, purely because it's arguably the only position on the ground in which you don't actively go for the ball to win it. You sit outside the stoppage, or hold position on a wing, or gut run constantly to make yourself an option and the best wings draw the ball to them purely through their positioning. I've not seen him play, so I'm asking; is the reason why he's been played as a KPP prospect to this point is because he's tall, and does he accumulate well enough to play smaller?

At AFL level, it's about the role as much as the capabilities. Look at Gowers, who played like a second tall despite being 187cm; he had a position on the WB list when they lacked genuine KPF, but the absolute second they got themselves genuine first and second KPF he no longer had a role that for his size and capabilities. If Akuei doesn't have a role which matches his capabilities, or his capabilities are insufficient to perform his role (due to never growing, not having the requisite ball skills, etc) then he's not going to amount to much.

Sorry to be a stormy little raincloud, but I'd be wanting to know what to expect from a draftee position wise before drafting them. A player without a position is a player without a club more often than not.

 

[thylacine60]

Are you saying we might have actually found an NGA recruit worth something in our zone


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be surprised - isn't our zone a 3 metre square patch of dirt behind epping station?

 

[passmark]

Not sure we should be tracking the development of 11yos. Even if it's innocent encouragement or pure hypotheticals.

This isn't European soccer scouting. Let the kids be kids.

Bugger, I've already pencilled in 2029 and 2030 as flag years.

 

[ferrisb]

Bugger, I've already pencilled in 2029 and 2030 as flag years.

If you used pencil, you should be able to erase it easily

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

If you think about it, the Jones role does not immediately need to be huge; it's about choosing when to go (or just flying at everything) and sitting off your man. Look at Laverde at Essendon this year; it's been more about ball-read and athleticism than it is about size.

Heretier Lumumba was an absolute gun opposite Heath Shaw as a KPD, and was 188cm. It worked perfectly fine with Prestigiacomo holding the Hawkins of the world from the balldrop, and the other two marking and beating the second and third talls. We have the weapon that is Jacob Weitering; we may not need another titan, and instead look for additional speed and ball movement around him.

Provided you've got a plan to play a second tall if they're too big, 192cm is fine.

Some of what you have stated i agree with but the game has changed and many of the KPP’s coming through are huge strong and athletic, we desperately need another genuine developing KPD that can play on the genuine KPF’s of the competition, we actually need another two for the future along with another KPF and a Ruck/Forward...
What type of player he actually turns into will be very interesting, not sure he’s looks like a true KP type...

 

[Gethelred]

Some of what you have stated i agree with but the game has changed and many of the KPP’s coming through are huge strong and athletic, we desperately need another genuine developing KPD that can play on the genuine KPF’s of the competition, we actually need another two for the future along with another KPF and a Ruck/Forward...
What type of player he actually turns into will be very interesting, not sure he’s looks like a true KP type...

I don't think the game has changed at all. Lever is 194cm. Clury is 193cm, Jonas 188cm. Brad Sheppard is 189cm, Jeremy McGovern 190cm. Dylan Grimes is 193cm. Cordy is 193cm. Darcy Gardiner and Marcus Adams are 193cm and 192cm respectively. Dayne Rampe is 187cm.

You need someone to take the big dudes some sides rock (Dixon, Hawkins, Lynch) but by and large too much height makes you too slow out of the backline. In 2016, the innovation that set the WB up for a flag was their use of smaller KPD's to intercept and go far quicker than their opposition could set after a turnover; the set play was an intercept mark followed by a chip kick to Johanisson, and then they were off the the races. Sides adapted, and the outnumber is frequently more valuable than the additional 5 to 10 cm of height and 5 kg defensively anyway.

We'll see where he ends up, but he is certainly not too short to be a KPD, or at least a mixed defender.

 

[Jimmae]

An academy could form a legacy; a connection between the club and a distinct community, with connections to that community throughout the club that extend beyond footy and into the world. Sheedy, for example, likes talking up Essendon's connection to Indigenous Australians as though he was the first to figure it all out; imagine if we put our academy out in Halls Creek (as we've got both Jones and SPS from that neck of the woods) and we put funds into the community, education, football club etc; we sent our boys out there to train and to support the community, and it became a link between the place and the club.

There used to be a place for community in our sport, and there could've been one here, too. That opportunity is now gone because the AFL suddenly decided that clubs shouldn't be able to prejudice the draft despite it happening anyway.

Perkins went to Essendon, didn't he?

The point is to help the unecessarily disadvantaged. That's it, not to chase talent academies or tap into bloodlines.

The F/S rule covers you there if you can identify outside your areas.

 

[passmark]

If you used pencil, you should be able to erase it easily

it’s all smudged now. Thanks a lot, Ferris.

 

[Gethelred]

The point is to help the unecessarily disadvantaged. That's it, not to chase talent academies or tap into bloodlines.

Not to be contrary for the sake of it (although contrary is kind of where I live) but you don't think an extremely remote community in WA might in some part suffer disadvantage? You don't think an AFL club couldn't sell that?

The F/S rule covers you there if you can identify outside your areas.

F/S is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow; you're going to get a player one out of maybe ten, twenty shots at it.

 

[Jimmae]

Not to be contrary for the sake of it (although contrary is kind of where I live) but you don't think an extremely remote community in WA might in some part suffer disadvantage? You don't think an AFL club couldn't sell that?


F/S is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow; you're going to get a player one out of maybe ten, twenty shots at it.

In this case, explicitly targeting a part of the world suggests you believe there is a genetic advantage there. This is community outreach, with a nod to indigenous communities.

The AFL have a few clues about what's underfunded and poorly resourced, and the WAFL has been tapping into Hall's Creek for a long time.

 

[Gethelred]

In this case, explicitly targeting a part of the world suggests you believe there is a genetic advantage there.

In this case, it had more to do with the fact I'm genuinely not acquainted with the remote parts of Australia that experience disadvantage to the point in which they'd qualify for an academy, and I recently watched the Samo/Jones puff piece about their visit to Hall's Creek after he got drafted. The point being, to deepen that connection in a community where it can get interpreted as genuine and where the current link between the club and the place can be used to forge a deeper one.

Telling me that you think trying to deepen that connection is an attempt at achieving an advantage via genetics is a bit of a long bow, I'd have thought. Might I inquire where you're going with it?

 

[Jimmae]

In this case, it had more to do with the fact I'm genuinely not acquainted with the remote parts of Australia that experience disadvantage to the point in which they'd qualify for an academy, and I recently watched the Samo/Jones puff piece about their visit to Hall's Creek after he got drafted. The point being, to deepen that connection in a community where it can get interpreted as genuine and where the current link between the club and the place can be used to forge a deeper one.

Telling me that you think trying to deepen that connection is an attempt at achieving an advantage via genetics is a bit of a long bow, I'd have thought. Might I inquire where you're going with it?

From a football perspective, it's about facilities and recruitment networks, with the latter being the scope of this program. Hall's Creek is covered.

 

[azlou]

Hmmm...

I get what you're saying; it certainly makes sense that we'd let him develop into his own game. But here's my issue; at AFL level, you're not afforded a position purely from athletic traits. Pace and a leap alone don't make a footballer, otherwise Majak Daw would be a three time brownlow medallist.

You need to be able to wed those traits to a role, and so my question with Akuei becomes (if you want him on a wing) how does he go as an accumulator? Does he have a good read of the game? How often does he get to the correct positions?

The wing's the trickiest position on the ground to play, purely because it's arguably the only position on the ground in which you don't actively go for the ball to win it. You sit outside the stoppage, or hold position on a wing, or gut run constantly to make yourself an option and the best wings draw the ball to them purely through their positioning. I've not seen him play, so I'm asking; is the reason why he's been played as a KPP prospect to this point is because he's tall, and does he accumulate well enough to play smaller?

At AFL level, it's about the role as much as the capabilities. Look at Gowers, who played like a second tall despite being 187cm; he had a position on the WB list when they lacked genuine KPF, but the absolute second they got themselves genuine first and second KPF he no longer had a role that for his size and capabilities. If Akuei doesn't have a role which matches his capabilities, or his capabilities are insufficient to perform his role (due to never growing, not having the requisite ball skills, etc) then he's not going to amount to much.

Sorry to be a stormy little raincloud, but I'd be wanting to know what to expect from a draftee position wise before drafting them. A player without a position is a player without a club more often than not.

Agree I’ve got a feeling this first generation of African athletes are better suited to the back line with set roles
G
The next generation is going to be whole different senario they will have grown up and developed in the game with ridiculous athletic ability and game sense exiting times for the game
Still think for the cost he’s worth a crack

 

[mediumsizered]

be surprised - isn't our zone a 3 metre square patch of dirt behind epping station?

There's dirt behind Epping Station?

 

[Dramoth]

There's dirt behind Epping Station?

There was when I was a kid… but that was when Epping was the end of the line.

The cub pack I was in took us up to Epping one day to go yabbying in a small creek up there. There were no ****ing yabbys in that damned creek… we were ripped off.

 

[Coops93]

When listening to the McKay boys parents I notice they mentioned they have another son, Charlie McKay, obviously the same name as a certain potential F/S so made me thing of googalising him to see how he's going

Anyway it looks like Charlie was named in the team of the week 2 weeks ago as a follower, so must have moved from his normal half back role. That may have been the last game before lockdown? https://afl.draftcentral.com.au/tag/charlie-mckay/

• Charlie McKay (Sandringham Dragons) 26 disposals, 1 mark, 7 tackles, 5 inside 50s

Great to see him doing well, particularly on the ball!

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

When listening to the McKay boys parents I notice they mentioned they have another son, Charlie McKay, obviously the same name as a certain potential F/S so made me thing of googalising him to see how he's going

Anyway it looks like Charlie was named in the team of the week 2 weeks ago as a follower, so must have moved from his normal half back role. That may have been the last game before lockdown? https://afl.draftcentral.com.au/tag/charlie-mckay/

• Charlie McKay (Sandringham Dragons) 26 disposals, 1 mark, 7 tackles, 5 inside 50s

Great to see him doing well, particularly on the ball!

Would be great to have the first possibly second father/daughter/son combo.

First for Carlton? Damn you Andypooh23

 

[Andypooh23]

Would be great to have the first father/daughter/son combo.

Pretty sure Gavin Brown's daughter already plays for the Collingwood AFLW team.

 

[katmanblue]

Pretty sure Gavin Brown's daughter already plays for the Collingwood AFLW team.

We do. Abbie McKay.
Edit responded to wrong person

 

[DangerousD]

Can someone give some insight into McKay?
Charlie is playing well, posting good numbers, but how much of his increased output, is down to him being overage?

He would be two years older than a lot of the others. Before lockdown last year, he was tipped to be drafted late, how’s he really tracking?

 

[mediumsizered]

Can someone give some insight into McKay?
Charlie is playing well, posting good numbers, but how much of his increased output, is down to him being overage?

He would be two years older than a lot of the others. Before lockdown last year, he was tipped to be drafted late, how’s he really tracking?

He didn't make the Vic Metro squad, despite some highly ranked players being unavailable due to injury.

He's a tough hombre', but I don't think he has a lot of hurt factor with his disposals. If we were to draft him, it would be with a late pick, at best.