Welcome to East Germany Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023? Collingwood Ofcourse

[manicpie]

Yep, our future is so bright that you have assumed that we will not be able to afford our players in 10 years time. Not only is this completely contradicting, it's coming from a Collingwood supporter who's team has just pissed off two of their better players in the past couple of years as they have a habit of adding an extra zero on a few contracts. I couldn't write it better if I wanted to!

You just can't get out of the past can you? all of that is just pissing in the wind when you compare it to where we are now. I'm not even going to go into your last 10 years because, as I said, I have a life but good luck for the future and I hope you find a hobby outside footy

 

[manicpie]

It's a testament to how bad they've been in recent times that their supporter base are so bullish about their prospects going into 2023 after finishing 9th this year.

The fact they did next to nothing at the trade table whilst others who finished ahead of them worked their proverbials off to address deficiencies that were identified further prove the delusion at club level.

Another mediocre year ahead for the Blues in 2023. Put as much as you can on the circa $2.50 odds on them again missing the finals next year. Money for jam.

I know right, they haven't even made the finals next year and they already think it's going to come naturally, at least we had a crack with what we had available

 

[Fadge]

They actually did once to your club in 1981 but was funny awkward moment as Peter Moore reluctantly had to take a runners up medallion and league head at time trying to convince footy fans to acknowledge Collingwood to receive these medallions. As Peter Moore walked down the steps he threw it away to his right.
Watch the awkward moment in this video

1981, such a long time ago.

I'm surprised videos were even around to capture the vision.

But I guess that's all Carlton supporters have got to revert to nowadays...

 

[Fadge]

I know right, they haven't even made the finals next year and they already think it's going to come naturally, at least we had a crack with what we had available

The ironic thing is, they were praying they'd finally make finals despite not expecting to win it.

But once again they fell short and now spend all off season trying dismally to belittle the teams that did play at a time when they haven't for a decade.

 

[footyfan1978]

1981, such a long time ago.

I'm surprised videos were even around to capture the vision.

Yes, I know you guys slow to understand technology fudgey. Video recorders were around even during the 70's but were not common place until 1980's in households.
Actually recorded it as a kid on video recorder that year. Tried to record every grand final each year until swapped over to DVD recorders.
I probably still have the original recording in some storage box.

 

[carlton_99]

Beats watching from the sidelines

We won 7 GFs in that period of time I was referring to - not sure I'd classify that as "watching from the sidelines"

 

[carlton_99]

The fact they did next to nothing at the trade table whilst others who finished ahead of them worked their proverbials off to address deficiencies that were identified further prove the delusion at club level.

Collingwood's 2021 Trade Period (went from 17th to 4th in 2022)
Traded In: Nathan Kreuger and Patrick Lipinski
Traded Out: Max Lynch

Fremantle's 2021 Trade Period (went from 11th to 5th in 2022)
Traded In: Will Brodie and Jordan Clarke
Traded Out: Adam Cerra

Richmond's 2021 Trade Period (went from 12th to 7th in 2022)
Traded In: Robbie Tarrant
Traded Out: Mabior Chol and Callum Coleman-Jones

All of these teams made massive jumps up the ladder in 2022 despite having "quiet" trade periods. To say a quiet trade period means the club is delusional is ludicrous. Bringing in Acres as a winger (one of our major deficiencies in 2021) was a smart, low cost trade. There isn't a need to go a get more players in (we have done this over the last ~3-4 years). The improvement now needs to come from the natural progression of the existing list.

 

[Fadge]

Collingwood's 2021 Trade Period (went from 17th to 4th in 2022)
Traded In: Nathan Kreuger and Patrick Lipinski
Traded Out: Max Lynch

Fremantle's 2021 Trade Period (went from 11th to 5th in 2022)
Traded In: Will Brodie and Jordan Clarke
Traded Out: Adam Cerra

Richmond's 2021 Trade Period (went from 12th to 7th in 2022)
Traded In: Robbie Tarrant
Traded Out: Mabior Chol and Callum Coleman-Jones

All of these teams made massive jumps up the ladder in 2022 despite having "quiet" trade periods. To say a quiet trade period means the club is delusional is ludicrous. Bringing in Acres as a winger (one of our major deficiencies in 2021) was a smart, low cost trade. There isn't a need to go a get more players in (we have done this over the last ~3-4 years). The improvement now needs to come from the natural progression of the existing list.

Fremantle the only bolter amongst that group.

Pies and Tigers had down years in 2021 after consecutive finals series the three and four years prior respectively. So it was a case of normal programming resumed for those teams.

How was St Kildas trade period in 2021, as an alternate example?

 

[Thrawn]

Another mediocre year ahead for the Blues in 2023. Put as much as you can on the circa $2.50 odds on them again missing the finals next year. Money for jam.

Put a lazy $100 on it then, and show us the receipt.

 

[Fadge]

Put a lazy $100 on it then, and show us the receipt.

I declared the bets I had on Carlton missing the top 8 last year leading into the last game.

Included:
2 x separate bets for $150 to $200 lunches (loser therefore covers full $300 to $400 bill each time)
3 x slabs beer
2 x bottles bourbon/CC and Dry

The same suspects have agreed to the same bets for 2023. Gluttons for punishment.

That was in addition to the bets I also declared when Carlton were $5 to miss the 8 with 3 rounds to go.

Candy, baby.

 

[carlton_99]

Fremantle the only bolter amongst that group.

Pies and Tigers had down years in 2021 after consecutive finals series the three and four years prior respectively. So it was a case of normal programming resumed for those teams.

How was St Kildas trade period in 2021, as an alternate example?

StKilda didn't bring in anyone in 2021 so not comparable. Once again we have addressed a deficiency in the list by bringing in Acres as a winger. Not sure how that makes the club delusional. Carlton have been one of the more active teams in the trade period over the last 3-4 years. The list is still relatively young (compared to most top 8 teams) so to expect natural progression of the existing team to drive you forwards is far from delusional. Hitting the draft is actually exactly what we should be doing with our current age demographic to consolidate the list and maximise its chances of sustained success.

 

[carlton_99]

Fremantle the only bolter amongst that group.

So a team relied on natural progression of their young list to push them forward and they went from 11th to 5th. Carlton trying to do the same thing and hoping to move from 9th into the top 8 = delusional. Makes sense...

 

[La Dispute]

I declared the bets I had on Carlton missing the top 8 last year leading into the last game.

Included:
2 x separate bets for $150 to $200 lunches (loser therefore covers full $300 to $400 bill each time)
3 x slabs beer
2 x bottles bourbon/CC and Dry

The same suspects have agreed to the same bets for 2023. Gluttons for punishment.

That was in addition to the bets I also declared when Carlton were $5 to miss the 8 with 3 rounds to go.

Candy, baby.

Remember last off season when Arr0w offered a $1 bet the Blues would finish above the Pies and you completely pussied out?

 

[nickcat0]

Assuming both clubs are fully fit, with no major injuries or suspensions ..........

I think Carlton will improve next year and finish above Collingwood. If it wasn't for Walsh being injured, they might have done it this year. His presence could have been worth an extra few points to Carlton in that last game.

Plus, Collingwood had a lot of close matches go in their favour this year, over time these things tend to even out, so I expect they could lose a few close ones in 2023.

 

[Fadge]

Remember last off season when Arr0w offered a $1 bet the Blues would finish above the Pies and you completely pussied out?

It wasn't a monetary bet it was a bigfooty related bet and why would I bet anything against a random, anonymous on-line persona who I don't rate and would probably welch on the bet anyway when I've got plenty of bets to keep track of in 'real life'?

 

[Fadge]

So a team relied on natural progression of their young list to push them forward and they went from 11th to 5th. Carlton trying to do the same thing and hoping to move from 9th into the top 8 = delusional. Makes sense...

For every Fremantle 2022 there are five other teams who also do nothing and either tread water or go backwards.

Port had an off year in 2021 and with their recruiting will be right back in contention, so that means there are two teams minimum that Carlton need to leapfrog just to make the 8.

Get on the $2.50 odds I mentioned to somewhat address the disappointment you'll experience again in 2023...

 

[carlton_99]

For every Fremantle 2022 there are five other teams who also do nothing and either tread water or go backwards.

Port had an off year in 2021 and with their recruiting will be right back in contention, so that means there are two teams minimum that Carlton need to leapfrog just to make the 8.

Get on the $2.50 odds I mentioned to somewhat address the disappointment you'll experience again in 2023...

People bet against their own team...?

 

[doppleganger]

This mentality is why your club has not done anything in finals in the last 60 years. Good to see it's still active!

What is with the 60 year timeframe?
What happened in 1962?

AFL era

Pies 2 premierships, 385 H&A wins, 22 finals wins and unfortunately 1 wooden spoon

Carlton 1 premiership, 315 H&A wins, 11 finals wins and a league leading 5 wooden spoons

Carlton mentality that they are still a power club is why they have been a laughing stock since the league became professional and they cant use paper bags filled with cash anymore.

I feel for any Bagger fans u40. Would barely remember 95, perhaps have their own kids now so trying to get the lil tacker into the Blues but in came SOS and Bolton...and then Billy Elliott happened. Their footy highlight would be Judd picking them. Poor buggers.

 

[PieLebo87]

They actually did once to your club in 1981 but was funny awkward moment as Peter Moore reluctantly had to take a runners up medallion and league head at time trying to convince footy fans to acknowledge Collingwood to receive these medallions. As Peter Moore walked down the steps he threw it away to his right.
Watch the awkward moment in this video

What a terrible idea

 

[PieLebo87]

I don’t think any Carlton fan wouldn’t prefer playing finals, but it’s a moot point.

Case closed then. Straight from the horse’s mouth - any Carlton fan would prefer playing finals than being cellar dwellers. Whether it’s a moot point or not is irrelevant as this is all I was asking.

The Pies might be a brave team but in spite of their best efforts they haven’t managed to bridge the gap on the Bluebaggers.

It’s not like soccer where teams concurrently play in other tournaments to push forward their credentials and validity as a team.

Well they have bridged the gap by 1 since your last. Carlton supporters may believe they’ll get the next one whilst I believe we’ll match the Blose before that happens.

Winning premierships is the only true metric of success in the AFL and the Blues are the best club across the history of the competition. Every season the comp resets and unless your team wins the flag the previous year you’re back in the pile with 17 other losers.

No-one is disputing that winning premierships is the only true metric to measure most successful, but it isn’t the only metric that measure’s success. Blose are the most successful in the history of our great game. Collingwood isn’t exactly sitting on 7-8 premierships to Carlton’s 16 - we’re on 15. Carlton supporters think there’s some sort of massive gap between them and the rest when that simply isn’t the case.

This is why the mental gymnastics and convoluted posts by Collingwood supporters are so funny. No one cares about your brave performances in the H&A season if you’re going to lose the majority of your finals and not even book a spot in the Grand Final

Refer back to your first paragraph where you acknowledged any Carlton supporter would prefer to be challenging than cellar dwellers. You just don’t want to acknowledge the fact Collingwood is, and always has been, up and about consistently and that’s the one thing you guys don’t have over us so you resort back to the ol’ but we’ve won the most premierships. That’s all good and well, but it doesn’t mean Collingwood also isn’t one of the most successful in the history of the game when looking at every other metric that also measures success such as Grand Final appearances, finals series, finals wins, overall wins etc.

Sitting here right now, if I had to choose the history of one club over the other, I’d be taking Collingwood everyday of the week. Being #1 in premiership wins can change next year, where as being a successful club for such an extended period time throughout history is set in stone.

I don’t have to be embarrassed when people talk about wooden spoons, my side rarely puts themselves in positions of challenging for those because mediocrity isn’t a thing for Collingwood despite us having 1 less flag than the Blose.

 

[PieLebo87]

Plus, Collingwood had a lot of close matches go in their favour this year, over time these things tend to even out, so I expect they could lose a few close ones in 2023.

So you neglected to look at Collingwood’s run of close games in 2021? 2022 is just as easily the ‘even out’.

 

[doppleganger]

Well they have bridged the gap by 1 since your last. Carlton supporters may believe they’ll get the next one whilst I believe we’ll match the Blose before that happens.

Carlton fans think winning VFL flags in the 70s and 80s is still worth bragging about.

That’s all good and well, but it doesn’t mean Collingwood also isn’t one of the most successful in the history of the game when looking at every other metric that also measures success such as Grand Final appearances, finals series, finals wins, overall wins etc.

Pies have also managed to have success in the professional AFL era.

80+ more wins in AFL era than Carlton
Double the premierships
1/5th of the spoons

Sitting here right now, if I had to choose the history of one club over the other, I’d be taking Collingwood everyday of the week. Being #1 in premiership wins can change next year, where as being a successful club for such an extended period time throughout history is set in stone.

If I was approaching retirement and in my 60s, it would have been a fun ride watching Carlton for the 20 years from late 60s to late 80s.

But if 40 or under, what the feck have you had to enjoy as a Bagger? What is Carlton's biggest moment in the last 25 years...probably Fraser Brown's tackle.

Carlton are to the AFL era, what StKilda were to the VFL...the bottom feeder who collects spoons.

Blues fans will lose their shit in 2023 when they win 13-14 games and get to experience an EF...for most clubs that is barely a pass.

 

[carlton_99]

So you neglected to look at Collingwood’s run of close games in 2021? 2022 is just as easily the ‘even out’.

You had 6 games in 2021 decided by 12pts or under. It was 12 in 2022 (14 if you count finals) - a pretty significant increase. I'd say its a bit more than evening out, but who knows you might do it again in 2023.

 

[carlton_99]

For every Fremantle 2022 there are five other teams who also do nothing and either tread water or go backwards.

Port had an off year in 2021 and with their recruiting will be right back in contention, so that means there are two teams minimum that Carlton need to leapfrog just to make the 8.

Get on the $2.50 odds I mentioned to somewhat address the disappointment you'll experience again in 2023...

Again you seem to have a very different definition of "nothing" to me. The wing was one of our main weaknesses in 2022 and we found a good winger to fill that role in Acres. And just with Port their trade period involved getting in Rioli (averaged 1 goal a game in 2022) + JHF (one-year player), whilst losing Amon - not saying they can't make the 8 but I wouldn't call that a massive haul that is guaranteed to get them top 8. If they do get it, it will be largely driven by their existing young talent like Butters, Rozee, Georgiades, Marshall etc + their experienced players (Dixon, Lycett, Jonas, Boak, Wines etc).

 

[doppleganger]

You had 6 games in 2021 decided by 12pts or under. It was 12 in 2022 (14 if you count finals) - a pretty significant increase. I'd say its a bit more than evening out, but who knows you might do it again in 2023.

Pies are 14-11 in games where margin was 2 goals or less since 2020.

We enjoyed a good run in 2022 after a rough trot before that.

For comparison, Carlton are 10-6 where margin was 2 goals or less since 2020.

Both sides probably due to be on the rough end of the pineapple in close games more often in 2023.