Banter Who will be better in 2025, Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[Scritchyscroony]

Indeed. You are 100% correct.

Carlton supporters see a team have a down year and just expect that team will be mediocre for the next 5 to 10 years, because that's the Carlton way.

I mean, they were saying exactly the same thing about Collingwood after 2021.

They were saying exactly the same thing about Geelong, when they went out in straight sets in 2010, and again after their 2023 season.

But powerhouse teams like Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood don't need a decade in the bottom 4 to build a list to contend for a flag - they just need astute drafting/trading, a great system, strong development, and belief that comes from being a club who regularly contend for the premiership.

Exactly! Beautifully put Fadge. The concept that a club doesn't have to plumb the depths of the ladder for a decade ( or two in this case) is foreign to Carlton and Richmond supporters. That's why neither are considered powerhouse clubs anymore.

 

[Fadge]

Exactly! Beautifully put Fadge. The concept that a club doesn't have to plumb the depths of the ladder for a decade ( or two in this case) is foreign to Carlton and Richmond supporters. That's why neither are considered powerhouse clubs anymore.

'Clubs with the most Bandwagoners' is the list Carlton and Richmond find themselves atop these days....

 

[Arr0w]

Yeah, you keep saying this, but continually fail to share that list, and accompanying rationale.

All talk, no action. Like the pathetic footy club you support.

I just did, but I'll repeat it again for you

So powerhouse clubs only need to win 3 flags in 60 odd years?

The list is long, but unfortunately for the Pies, they aren't in the top 8 on that count either

Pies have 3 flags in 60 odd years, not in the top 8 compared to a number of clubs that have won more flags over that period

I'd suggest, you would actually support a pathetic club

 

[Fadge]

I just did, but I'll repeat it again for you

So powerhouse clubs only need to win 3 flags in 60 odd years?

The list is long, but unfortunately for the Pies, they aren't in the top 8 on that count either

Pies have 3 flags in 60 odd years, not in the top 8 compared to a number of clubs that have won more flags over that period

I'd suggest, you would actually support a pathetic club

Pfft.

Pathetic = a team nowhere near premiership contention in a quarter of a century, with 5 wooden spoons in that time.

In fact, that's worse than pathetic.

 

[carlton_99]

'Clubs with the most Bandwagoners' is the list Carlton and Richmond find themselves atop these days....

Carlton's membership grew from 47K in 2014 to 95K+ in 2023 without making a final. Now up to 105K this year after their first finals series in a decade. You can call Carlton supporters a lot of things, but "bandwagoners" is not one of them.

 

[Arr0w]

Pfft.

Pathetic = a team nowhere near premiership contention in a quarter of a decade, with 5 wooden spoons in that time.

In fact, that's worse than pathetic.

So now we are moving the goal posts from your initial claim, which is still off topic, hoping people will entertain it?


Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

 

[Arr0w]

Carlton's membership grew from 47K in 2014 to 95K+ in 2023 without making a final. Now up to 105K this year after their first finals series in a decade. You can call Carlton supporters a lot of things, but "bandwagoners" is not one of them.

It's a deflection mechanism from the thread topic, which still makes me laugh

 

[Scritchyscroony]

'Clubs with the most Bandwagoners' is the list Carlton and Richmond find themselves atop these days....

Yeah Saints supporters put Carlton and Tigers supporters to shame in terms of genuine Loyalty and support. Like Pies supporter, they turn out through thick and thin.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

So now we are moving the goal posts from your initial claim, which is still off topic, hoping people will entertain it?


Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

Dude, you spend 3/4 of your posts off topic if it suits you.. Then every time an off topic conversation doesn't go your way you fall back to "stick to the topic". It's incredibly hypocritical and weak.

 

[carlton_99]

Yeah Saints supporters put Carlton and Tigers supporters to shame in terms of genuine Loyalty and support. Like Pies supporter, they turn out through thick and thin.

You can't be going on and on about how bad Carlton have been over the last 20 years in this thread with your fellow Pies fans and then call Blues fans bandwagoners.

 

[Arr0w]

Dude, you spend 3/4 of your posts off topic if it suits you.. Then every time an off topic conversation doesn't go your way you fall back to "stick to the topic". It's incredibly hypocritical and weak.

Not at all, happy to entertain any discussion with a Pie supporter

I mean, we can all frame a time line or cherry pick events

What rhetorical conversation do you want to have?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

You can't be going on and on about how bad Carlton have been over the last 20 years in this thread with your fellow Pies fans and then call Blues fans bandwagoners.

Why not?

 

[carlton_99]

Why not?

Because bandwagoner supporters don't stick with bad clubs.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Not at all, happy to entertain any discussion with a Pie supporter

I mean, we can all frame a time line or cherry pick events

What rhetorical conversation do you want to have?

Don't say not at all. You know it's true. Your fall back position when a topic doesn't go your way is to cry " off topic". Then the very next post you'll be posting something about the 1981 grand final. As I said... It's hypocritical and weak.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Because bandwagoner supporters don't stick with bad clubs.

So you're saying Carlton is a bad club but it's supporters have stuck with it so they can't be accused of being band wagoners. I guess you make a fair point.

What were the membership numbers during those 5 spoons years though?

 

[carlton_99]

So you're saying Carlton is a bad club but it's supporters have stuck with it so they can't be accused of being band wagoners. I guess you make a fair point.

What were the membership numbers during those 5 spoons years though?

You have been saying Carlton is a bad club and have now turned around and said fans are bandwagoners. They went from 47K members in 2014 to 95K+ in 2023 without even playing in a final. In what universe is that showing Carlton fans to be bandwagoners?

2014: 47,485 - finished 13th
2015: 47,305 - finished 18th
2016: 50,202 - finished 14th
2017: 50,557 - finished 16th
2018: 56,005 - finished 18th
2019: 64,269 - finished 16th
2020: 67,035 - finished 11th
2021: 81,302 - finished 13th
2022: 88,776 - finished 9th
2023: 95,277 - made a Prelim
2024: 105K+

 

[Scritchyscroony]

You have been saying Carlton is a bad club and have now turned around and said fans are bandwagoners. They went from 47K members in 2014 to 95K+ in 2023 without even playing in a final. In what universe is that showing Carlton fans to be bandwagoners?

No you clearly admitted that Carlton were a bad club. That was your argument. They're a bad club but the supporters stick fat is what you were saying. I only agree with the first part of your argument

In reality .. your membership halves when your supporters know you are bottom 4 team as opposed to a team expected to make finals. Does seem a bit bandwaggony to me.

 

[carlton_99]

No you clearly admitted that Carlton were a bad club. That was your argument. They're a bad club but the supporters stick fat is what you were saying. I only agree with the first part of your argument

In reality .. your membership halves when your supporters know you are bottom 4 team as opposed to a team expected to make finals. Does seem a bit bandwaggony to me.

No I didn't admit that again reading the post before replying helps. My first post clearly stated YOU can't spend the whole year calling the club bad and then say the fans are bandwagoners. I'm using YOUR logic.

And the numbers above show that our membership kept increasing despite being consistently in the bottom 6 and got all the way to 95K without making a final.

Please show me the years our membership halved?

 

[Skull Face]

Ironically Carlton supporters actually need to be supporting Collingwood against Brisbane if they want a realistic chance of finishing top 4.

Cartlon's season is in Collingwood's hands.

Adelaide or Gws beat dogs - 55% chance
Freo or Dogs beat gws - 65% chance
Pies or Essendon beat Lions - 35% chance
Adelaide or Freo beat Port - 65% chance

All irrelivant if we dont beat the hawks but hardly in the pies hands

 

[Arr0w]

Don't say not at all. You know it's true. Your fall back position when a topic doesn't go your way is to cry " off topic". Then the very next post you'll be posting something about the 1981 grand final. As I said... It's hypocritical and weak.

I'll ask again, what would you like to discuss?

Carlton have been crap for 2 decades, Pies have won 3 flags over my lifetime compared to 8

Pies are out of the 8, we aren't

We have won wooden spoons

What would you like to discuss?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I'll ask again, what would you like to discuss?

Carlton have been crap for 2 decades, Pies have won 3 flags over my lifetime compared to 8

Pies are out of the 8, we aren't

We have won wooden spoons

What would you like to discuss?

Clearly I am trying to discuss your hypocritical habit of crying " off topic" when a discussion is not going in a direction you like. Do you admit or deny that you do this?

 

[Arr0w]

Clearly I am trying to discuss your hypocritical habit of crying " off topic" when a discussion is not going in a direction you like. Do you admit or deny that you do this?

So you too want to continue playing the poster, rather than discussing footy?

I will make it clear for you too

I prefer to have footy discussions, and in relation to the thread topic

If you or anyone else wants to stray by playing the poster, trolling or bring up past events, I'll respond in kind

So, what's it going to be?

 

[Fadge]

You have been saying Carlton is a bad club and have now turned around and said fans are bandwagoners. They went from 47K members in 2014 to 95K+ in 2023 without even playing in a final. In what universe is that showing Carlton fans to be bandwagoners?

2014: 47,485 - finished 13th
2015: 47,305 - finished 18th
2016: 50,202 - finished 14th
2017: 50,557 - finished 16th
2018: 56,005 - finished 18th
2019: 64,269 - finished 16th
2020: 67,035 - finished 11th
2021: 81,302 - finished 13th
2022: 88,776 - finished 9th
2023: 95,277 - made a Prelim
2024: 105K+

The first rule of data analysis is to consider the numbers in line with the general growth of membership numbers across the competition.

When Carlton were 'winning spoons', they were ranked 11th in 2017 and 9th in 2018 in comparison with other clubs.

Once hope was sold to the Carlton faithful, and their on-field performances improved to where they are now 'in contention for finals', they leapt to the 4th ranked team in 2022/23, and a likely further leap this year.

Bandwagoners.

 

[Robertio]

Don't say not at all. You know it's true. Your fall back position when a topic doesn't go your way is to cry " off topic". Then the very next post you'll be posting something about the 1981 grand final. As I said... It's hypocritical and weak.

Clearly I am trying to discuss your hypocritical habit of crying " off topic" when a discussion is not going in a direction you like. Do you admit or deny that you do this?

Off topic mate stick to the title of the thread Carlton Are Better.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

No I didn't admit that again reading the post before replying helps. My first post clearly stated YOU can't spend the whole year calling the club bad and then say the fans are bandwagoners. I'm using YOUR logic.

And the numbers above show that our membership kept increasing despite being consistently in the bottom 6 and got all the way to 95K without making a final.

I agree with you that the numbers show an increase during years when you were a terrible rabble of a club. Why was your membership so woeful in 2014 then?