Carlton top 4 2011

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Carlton will be top 4 in 2011. They have so much improvement in the side, apart from Judd, Scotland (prob can't get better) and people forget they were flying halfway through the year and looking potential top 4 candidates until Kreuzer went down. They lacked consistency and perhaps a key defender (still do), but I think as long as Ratten puts more emphasis on the defensive side of their game, I can see them being the big improvers.

Would welcome any criticism from Carlton supporters on this team, but I think a Carlton best side would be extremely competitive next season:

Russell, Jamison, Armfield
Bower, White, Joseph
Simpson, Gibbs, Scotland
Houlihan, Waite, Garlett
Betts, Henderson, Yarran
Kreuzer, Judd, Murphy

Lucas, Carazzo, Warnock Sub: Walker

Add the possibility of McLean actually becoming half the footballer he once looked like being, and they could really have a nice team. I went for White at CHB, but I'm not really sure what they're planning. I suppose even Waite could play the whole season back there and Kreuzer could be used as a FF for most of the year due to the knee. Walker could be perfectly used as a sub.

I really think a lot of my fellow Pies supporters criticising this list have gone off a little early. They have a lot of promise.

And yes I'm serious.

 

[mike_]

Luckily I don't share your view.

I think the problem at Carlton is that too often their medium-big forwards, Waite, O' Hailpin, Kreuzer etc are negated by average-great defenders. They rely far too heavily on their small forwards and more often than not midfielders to kick the winning score for them.

Until they can land a big forward (to fill the role of Brendan Fevola), I think they'll linger around the 6-10 mark.

 

[On the bench]

I tend to agree they have been hovering around the 5-8 mark on the ladder for a couple of years now,need to sort out their forward line does'nt seem functional atm,they along with Fremantle should be looking to break into the top 4 as a couple of sides above them would seem to be on the slide a little!

 

[NAUGHT5]

The reason I believe it is somewhat possible is because I dont believe the competition will be as strong at the very top as it has been in previous seasons. Collingwood will be a clear number 1 IMO and St.Kilda will still be up there. I think the rest is really up for grabs.

If we are to take that next step we need a lot of improvement out of
Armfield
Bower
Gibbs
Henderson
Yarran
Lucas

We'll need Murphy to have a better season. Waite not to get suspended.
And Kreuzer & McLean to stay fit.

So many factors. Anything could go wrong.

 

[Prem87]

They'll do really well in the H&A but won't win a flag. The quality isn't there.

 

[DaVe86]

Can I be honest....I'm going to get killed for saying this....but I reckon it all comes down to BROCK MCLEAN.

Seriously, he has been bad of late, and there is no reason to suggest he will turn it around in 2011.

However, if he can do the Luke Ball role, then it will free Judd and Murphy up so much. Ball doesn't have great skill or pace either, but he throws his body in and wins so many clearances.

Mclean needs to get into the 22 and show more hunger, and needs to do the buffer work for Judd. At the moment Judd is the number 1 in and under and the number 1 outsider. Impossible to do both all the time.


Ball came in this year and we pushed Pendlebury a bit wider and Swan was typically the first to receive the feed-out from Ball.


Carlton don't want Judd at the bottom of a pack. They want him on his feet so he can use his pace to burst from it. Judd will always win his own ball...but if Mclean can step up, it could be the difference. he looked unfit and lazy in 2010.




I also think the Blues need to put a huge pre-season into Bower. He needs to bulk up. His closing speed is good, but he gets outmuscled too often. If he can fill out and go body to body with his opponent, then the Blues defence will be stronger because Jamison is a class player.


I reckon getting Houlihan back as the defensive forward will help...and obviously Kreuzer. The Blues started going down-hill once Kruezer did his knee.

Kruezer + Warnock could be the strongest ruck division in the league...and both can go forward as well.



I still reckon they lack depth in the midfield. Good top 4...but dies away after that. Without Mclean, the Blues lack a bit of c### through the middle.

Probably lacking real pace off half-back as well. Gibbs and Scotland are good by foot, but don't break lines. They would benefit from a Gram/Shaw type.

Russell has really come on, but is still suspect with his disposal at times. Having Joseph, Armfield and him in the backline is dangerous because all really butcher the ball at times. I think you can afford 1 in a side. Ours is Toovey. It's what exposed the Saints in the GF...too many guys who can't kick.


The Forward line will be better next year. Reckon they should use Yarran higher up the ground. No need to play all 3 smalls up forward. Use Garlett and Betts at the feet of Waite and Hendo...and have Houlihan defensive forward.

Andrew Collins may add a bit of heart as well.


Reckon they are still around the 5-8 mark...although could be the one to push for top 4 this year. Depends on how Geelong and Saints will back up.

 

[X_box_X]

I agree. McLean is very important. He has shown he can play well in the big games. Two games that stand out are the TAC Cup Grand Final and the 2006 EF against St. Kilda.

 

[FRUMPY]

Still think we will be 5-8th. Waite showed in the 2nd half of the year he was capable of being a consistent goal kicker. Coming back from a knee and suspensions meant he didnt play well early.

I think it is upto him and henderson to kick around 40 goals each and the mosquito fleet to match this years output. Midfield should win enough of the ball.

Need bower to get over his injuries and show more of his 2009 form than his 2010 form at CHB. Jamison to hold FB and one more tall to cover the backline. Armfield, russell and lucas to hold the other 3 possies in the backline.

Looking at the top 4 sides, they all average 100+ games for the 22 who take the field. We were averaging around 75 games. So another year into these boys and in 2012 we should challenge for top 4.

 

[geelong12]

I doubt it. Purely because a lot of their players are still fairly raw. Gibbs and Murphy showed that this season and they are meant to be in their best 3 players. Backline is a worry imo.

 

[zeeCFC]

Can I be honest....I'm going to get killed for saying this....but I reckon it all comes down to BROCK MCLEAN.

Seriously, he has been bad of late, and there is no reason to suggest he will turn it around in 2011.

However, if he can do the Luke Ball role, then it will free Judd and Murphy up so much. Ball doesn't have great skill or pace either, but he throws his body in and wins so many clearances.

Mclean needs to get into the 22 and show more hunger, and needs to do the buffer work for Judd. At the moment Judd is the number 1 in and under and the number 1 outsider. Impossible to do both all the time.


Ball came in this year and we pushed Pendlebury a bit wider and Swan was typically the first to receive the feed-out from Ball.


Carlton don't want Judd at the bottom of a pack. They want him on his feet so he can use his pace to burst from it. Judd will always win his own ball...but if Mclean can step up, it could be the difference. he looked unfit and lazy in 2010.




I also think the Blues need to put a huge pre-season into Bower. He needs to bulk up. His closing speed is good, but he gets outmuscled too often. If he can fill out and go body to body with his opponent, then the Blues defence will be stronger because Jamison is a class player.


I reckon getting Houlihan back as the defensive forward will help...and obviously Kreuzer. The Blues started going down-hill once Kruezer did his knee.

Kruezer + Warnock could be the strongest ruck division in the league...and both can go forward as well.



I still reckon they lack depth in the midfield. Good top 4...but dies away after that. Without Mclean, the Blues lack a bit of c### through the middle.

Probably lacking real pace off half-back as well. Gibbs and Scotland are good by foot, but don't break lines. They would benefit from a Gram/Shaw type.

Russell has really come on, but is still suspect with his disposal at times. Having Joseph, Armfield and him in the backline is dangerous because all really butcher the ball at times. I think you can afford 1 in a side. Ours is Toovey. It's what exposed the Saints in the GF...too many guys who can't kick.


The Forward line will be better next year. Reckon they should use Yarran higher up the ground. No need to play all 3 smalls up forward. Use Garlett and Betts at the feet of Waite and Hendo...and have Houlihan defensive forward.

Andrew Collins may add a bit of heart as well.


Reckon they are still around the 5-8 mark...although could be the one to push for top 4 this year. Depends on how Geelong and Saints will back up.

Good analysis, pretty much saw this at the end of '09 when we traded for Brock...sadly though he's been injured several times and in the last 2 months has had 3 operations to get everything sorted, he should be fit now anyway but hoping they manage his training load so he isn't driving his body to the limits like he did last preseason.

The sub inerchange rule also helps us immensely, especially with Walker, Judd and Brock who have the best endurance at our club.

I'll be happy with top 6 and a finals win this year

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Tend to agree with most that we'll be around 5-6th.

The only reason we may make it into the Top 4 is that next year does look like a year where the ladder may open up a bit:


- St. Kilda - where are they at. How will they respond ?

- Geelong - are they on the slide ?

- Bulldogs - expect them to drop a little before there new draft choices start to have some effect.

- Hawthorn, Adelaide, Freo - hard to judge.

It may be a year for a bolter like Carlton to get up the ladder. Who knows.

 

[The Big League]

They won't get near the top 4.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I think they will go backwards at an alarming rate. Not much quality in their forward line, ordinary backs and a midfield realiant on one player.

I am willing to lay 4 to 1 for anyone who wants to bet they will make the 4. P'm me if interested

 

[Prem87]

McLean...chronic knee.

 

[master bate]

No doubt up forward they can get more from their talls - Waite consistency and improvement in Hendo, and Yarran can improve their smalls. But their midfield probably only has a mild improvement in it from Gibbs and Murphy, and then Scotland might need replacing with Lucas.

But down back I don't see where the improvement is coming from. I can't see how all of a sudden they will have two strong key defenders from Bower, Jamison or White. Or how Joseph will add attack to his game or Armfield will add a strong defensive side.

Not to mention any injuries especially to talls or Judd really hurts them.

They should be some chance of top 4, but 5-6 and winning a final would be a good result in my opinion.

 

[morgoth]

Whilst i find it unlikley as they have no forward line or backline I hope they do. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to destroy them in the finals.

With Ratten in charge I can't see it happening. Players want out, their is no spirit at the club other than $$$$.

 

[StringyDog]

Too much has to go right, need;

Another great season from Judd
Kruzer to come back from knee - ruckman normally take time
Waite to have influence up forward
Someone to improve down key back
Jamison to get back in form
All small forwards to fire for long periods
McClean to get games without injury

And Judd goes down they drop back to a bottom 6 side.

 

[Shutty05]

i dont believe your serious... for starters when do you expect Kreuzer to play? Not until the second half of the season and without him goodluck making the top 8

 

[drummoyne]

Will require big leaps forward from McLean, Henderson, Yarran and Bower.

Also Gibbs running through the middle.

Will be between the Blues, Dockers and Hawthorn for fourth spot IMO. Melbourne could be a bolter too but doubt top 4.

 

[Shutty05]

Too much has to go right, need;

Another great season from Judd
Kruzer to come back from knee - ruckman normally take time
Waite to have influence up forward
Someone to improve down key back
Jamison to get back in form
All small forwards to fire for long periods
McClean to get games without injury

And Judd goes down they drop back to a bottom 6 side.

And: Old man Scottland to play well again, too much reliance on this bloke.
And: you find a FB

 

[Chism]

This thread takes me back to last year when 80% of the people on here had us missing finals with Fev gone and we were near certainties to go 0-3 in our first few games without Juddy as well.

I am not saying we will make the Top 4 and we will need natural improvement from the kids and a few fringe players to step up but nothing is impossible and if we remain relatively quiet on the injury front i can see us really making a run at a Top 4 spot. Rd 16 this year we were only 1 game behind the top 4 teams then had a dip and dropped some winnable games as the season went on which really hurt us.

The guys that are key for us to make top 4 IMO are...

Hendo. Still a raw talent with less than 40 games to his name and has a great future up forward for us.

McLean. Frees up Juddy and we need him injury free and look out for a big year from this guy.

Murphy/Gibbs. Massive playmaker's for us and will return to 09 season form that saw a top 10 Brownlow finish for both and Murphy struggled this year with hip problems and no pre season.

Waite. Must stay suspension free and Waite gets in the votes on most occasions we will win the game as he has such a huge influence on the team forward and back.

Simon White. Our future backline star and looked really good early this year before injury ruined his season. Will be a good player.

Warnock. Really starting to see the ability this big guy has and had some great games late last year.

Good to see most (not all) are capable of having a decent discussion without the BS usual comments from the outer.

 

[The Finger]

Warnock in the ruck is crucial. If he can get enough quality ball to his midfield they will improve again. The Grand Finals showed how important a ruckman can be. GF1 Saints break even with Jolly Collingwoods mids get smashed, GF2 Jolly dominates armchair ride for the midfield.

 

[Sloth]

Won't make the finals I'm happy to say.

 

[Claude Balls]

Russell, Jamison, Armfield
Bower, White, Joseph
Simpson, Gibbs, Scotland
Houlihan, Waite, Garlett
Betts, Henderson, Yarran
Kreuzer, Judd, Murphy

Lucas, Carazzo, Warnock Sub: Walker

Where will the improvement come from?

Judd and Waite are unlikely to get any better, Kruezer won't make much of an impact, Murphy still needs to learn how to run back the other way, Gibbs still has a lot to prove in the middle (not on the HB line), Garlett and Yarran need to be dangerous ALL year.

I personally can't see them finishing any higher than 6th.

 

[BLue_Bloys]

but I think as long as Ratten puts more emphasis on the defensive side of their game, I can see them being the big improvers.

That's the key imo, our defenders whilst in need of a bigger body to help out, aren't that bad.

We're great running forward but, when the ball is turned over it can be in our backline at an alarming rate.