Strategy Changes and Pre-match discussion (Freo 15/7, MCG 1.45pm)

[manicpie]

Well yeah...except for when he played a proper season just last year and was above average in:

Disposals, handballs, DE, inside 50's, effective disposals, contested possessions, uncontested possessions, intercept possessions, ground ball gets, clearances, stoppage clearances, hitouts, hitouts to advantage, goal accuracy, goal assists, score involvements, score launches, pressure acts, marks, marks on lead and metres gained.

But other than all those areas, he's absolutely below average in almost every area...

I've never seen him get a clearance, stoppage clearance, hit outs or hit outs to advantage, we're there 2 McStay's playing for Brisbane last year. If ever there was a case for stats being overrated, these are it. I will believe and accept it when I see it for myself, hopefully soon this year

 

[stormskye]

Freo have been a terrible first quarter team this year , I just hope we don’t do what port did with Gold Coast and just “expect” to win.

 

[Jasper84]

Cheeses, I mean I get the reaction considering the amount of unwarranted criticism you see on BF but in this case I'm merely stating the facts from his numbers this season as a Collingwood player. Hence why I don't see his value at the moment. I mean he's worth a shot with Mihocek out but he'd have to improve his output immensely to retain a spot.

The facts based on his numbers from 5 games, one of which he was injured in the first 10 minutes? Might be worth looking at Ash Johnson's numbers from his 13 games this year before giving out the "below average" title.

It was a silly comment without thought and you know it. Better to backtrack than to try and blame others for their reasonable responses to it.

 

[Magnanimous]

Out: WHE, Frampton, Lipinski
In: Maynard, Sidebottom, McStay
Sub: Lipinski

Think Lipinski or Adams will be the unlucky ones to go to sub given Olegs good form

No way Lipa is out surely?!?

from my Delorean

 

[Fat Jesus]

No way Lipa is out surely?!?

from my Delorean

Sub I reckon at worst for Lipa

 

[Magnanimous]

McStay needs some time. How many games has he played? Not many.
Confidence in him myself.

Those also complaining about not putting teams away need to look at our healthy percentage.

Expecting a good win against The Dockers either way.

Agree, let him get some form in the magoos and he can come back in for the back to back tilt.

from my Delorean

 

[Jasper84]

I've never seen him get a clearance, stoppage clearance, hit outs or hit outs to advantage, we're there 2 McStay's playing for Brisbane last year. If ever there was a case for stats being overrated, these are it. I will believe and accept it when I see it for myself, hopefully soon this year

Maybe the AFL should have two ways of recording statistics. One table of statistics by the people who are employed to watch and record the stats as they happen, who then compare said stats with other players from across the league and one table of statistics by a casual observer from an opposition club.

 

[Jafo]

The jury is still out on McStay but more than willing to give him a chance. Especially if the club want to try him and Checkers as our one, two forwards.

Maybe McStay will help Checkers on the field a little like how Dermie helped Sav by taking some of the heat during games.

 

[Ulahoopski]

The facts based on his numbers from 5 games, one of which he was injured in the first 10 minutes? Might be worth looking at Ash Johnson's numbers from his 13 games this year before giving out the "below average" title.

It was a silly comment without thought and you know it. Better to backtrack than to try and blame others for their reasonable responses to it.

How can it be a "silly comment" when it's based on what we've seen of his games at the Pies and his stats as a Collingwood player? Im not giving him the below average title - the stats are. It was an invitation to show me what I'm not seeing. Instead I get "jog on" and "delist him rah rah rah". Hardly "reasonable responses".
As for Johnson it's hardly an equitable comparison considering he's played 20 odd career games. And even so he's at least showing some above average stats and anyone who's watched all his games can see he's a very talented footballer who will only improve with more experience.

 

[MyManLynch]

With Maynard, Sidebottom & McStay back this week…do we choose between Cox & Cameron (Assuming Bianco out with WHE).
or does Frampton miss out?
Who will be sub? Sidey, Markov, Johnson?
Selection starting to tighten up.

 

[Jafo]

With Maynard, Sidebottom & McStay back this week…do we choose between Cox & Cameron (Assuming Bianco out with WHE).
or does Frampton miss out?
Who will be sub? Sidey, Markov, Johnson?
Selection starting to tighten up.

Hearing Cameron won’t play. Sore back.

 

[Jasper84]

How can it be a "silly comment" when it's based on what we've seen of his games at the Pies and his stats as a Collingwood player? Im not giving him the below average title - the stats are. It was an invitation to show me what I'm not seeing. Instead I get "jog on" and "delist him rah rah rah". Hardly "reasonable responses".
As for Johnson it's hardly an equitable comparison considering he's played 20 odd career games. And even so he's at least showing some above average stats and anyone who's watched all his games can see he's a very talented footballer who will only improve with more experience.

This was your initial input. No mention of it being based on what he has done at the Pies this year or exclusion from his years at Brisbane. It was a definitive statement with no evidence to back it up. Everyone was well within their rights to call it out.

McStay is a below average player in almost every area. No idea what anyone, supporter or coaching staff see in him.

I mentioned Ash Johnson stats comparison as he and Cox are most likely the players to be replaced by McStay in the side. But I suspect that you already knew that.

 

[Ulahoopski]

This was your initial input. No mention of it being based on what he has done at the Pies this year or exclusion from his years at Brisbane. It was a definitive statement with no evidence to back it up. Everyone was well within their rights to call it out.

I mentioned Ash Johnson stats comparison as he and Cox are most likely the players to be replaced by McStay in the side. But I suspect that you already knew that.

Alright, let's start again since you've made the assumption that I'm here to stir shit like the average BF poster.
From watching his games this year and looking at his stats from those games I don't really see why he's valued by anyone.
After discovering how to look at his stats from previous seasons (and that's all I've got to go on as I want watching him closely at Brisbane), he has shown some better form but he's also had some very average years along the way.
He's a great kick. And can take a good one grab mark on occasions but not often enough for my liking.
I sincerely hope he gets back to his best form and can influence some results for the rest of the year but I'm not holding my breath for a player in his 10th season.
And no, I thought you mentioned Ash thinking you'd seen my defence and support of him on BF.

 

[Jasper84]

Alright, let's start again since you've made the assumption that I'm here to stir s**t like the average BF poster.
From watching his games this year and looking at his stats from those games I don't really see why he's valued by anyone.
After discovering how to look at his stats from previous seasons (and that's all I've got to go on as I want watching him closely at Brisbane), he has shown some better form but he's also had some very average years along the way.
He's a great kick. And can take a good one grab mark on occasions but not often enough for my liking.
I sincerely hope he gets back to his best form and can influence some results for the rest of the year but I'm not holding my breath for a player in his 10th season.
And no, I thought you mentioned Ash thinking you'd seen my defence and support of him on BF.

I mentioned it earlier in the week but this is likely the reason McStay is valued by coaches and team mates

Time on ground for tall forwards in the last game:

JUH: 91%
Naughton: 85%
Cox: 77%
AJ: 69%

McStay TOG before injury 97% and 81%

This is the Sier discussion all over again. McStay may not be as impactful as Cox and AJ in bursts, but where he is supreme is his ability to play his role the entire game. When AJ and Cox are having an off game or are tiring they are team liabilities because there is nobody coming off the bench to play their role or a position that they can be moved to.

Teams are now exploiting the non competitive forward because not only does it allow counter attacks, it means that the defender can sag off and block the leads of the performing forwards like Mihocek and Elliott.

 

[South of the Yarra]

McStay opens up our whole forward line. The two full games he played as a forward in normal weather conditions we scored 125 against Geelong and 135 against Port.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Out: WHE, Frampton, Lipinski
In: Maynard, Sidebottom, McStay
Sub: Lipinski

Think Lipinski or Adams will be the unlucky ones to go to sub given Olegs good form

Lipinski has just returned from injury. He needs more TOG, not less IMHO. Last player I'd be giving the Sub vest to this early on his return. He'll continue to improve with greater exposure.

 

[jmac70]

Hearing Cameron won’t play. Sore back.

If true, Frampton gets a life line.

 

[TakingThePies]

Cheeses, I mean I get the reaction considering the amount of unwarranted criticism you see on BF but in this case I'm merely stating the facts from his numbers this season as a Collingwood player. Hence why I don't see his value at the moment. I mean he's worth a shot with Mihocek out but he'd have to improve his output immensely to retain a spot.

P.s. In 16 of those stats you've listed he's below average in his games this year.

He's played 6 games?... you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[thebaldfacts]

McStay is a below average player in almost every area. No idea what anyone, supporter or coaching staff see in him.

That is what l thought about Hill, Frampton and Markov.

 

[Chameleon75]

I can’t believe we’re bringing in mcstay to replace Lockett

 

[slugger01]

I can’t believe we’re bringing in mcstay to replace Lockett

Lockett was very lucky to get that many games whilst McStay was injured...

 

[Bianconeri]

I really hope McStay kicks a bag so we can shut up about him

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

I’m thinking that Dan’s time on the sidelines watching the team do so well will have him fired up and ready to have a big impact. He helps our structure as others have noted and his team first attitude is exemplary. If he can become a bit more dangerous in his own right both leading and marking he’ll be even more valuable. This is what I’m hoping for him in his second stint for us.

 

[Aussie pie]

So Dan’s back, I think Big Billy will miss but then be back next week for the Port game in defence. Ash kicked the goals he needed to stay in for another week while checkers is out.

We know big Billy can be played in multiple positions but he came to us to be a defender, being played everywhere is what stuffed him up in SA. He’s next cab for our Tall defender role and that should be his role, I guess when you’re a journeyman like him a game anywhere is a bonus just like Oleg.

I’m actually happy we have selection issues, yes I’d still love a star key forward but who wouldn’t, we are winning anyway.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I really hope McStay kicks a bag so we can shut up about him

I'll settle for him playing his role in us kicking a winning score. Whether that's kicking goals directly or contributing through GA's or crashing packs doesn't really bother me.