Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion Round 19 v Suns.

[On the quiet]

Finding form and developing in the twos is clearly a valid pathway. Keays and matho (early days, but has been consistent in the twos) both were clearly a cut above and deserved to play up.

The twos isn't just a playground for high picks to do their time in before moving up, it's a genuine opportunity for players to develop their attitude and skills. We should definately be saying to players, play in the twos, own it consistently, love the game, not just playing in front of crowds, then you'll be back.

I agree with your comments but IMO there is a significant step up in some of the key positions and midfield between VFL and AFL.

I have been a little disappointed with the quality and depth of the current VFL, especially those non AFL clubs (Southport excluded) and there are too many byes. Something Dangerfield mentioned on TV a few weeks ago.

I would rather see the AFL clubs remain in the VFL and the fixture involve playing each other twice in a H&H season with a top 6 for finals. Rightly or wrongly I would like to see the non AFL teams go back to their state leagues.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don't know the answer to the Lyons riddle. I will say that much of some of the criticism has been overblown. He ranks 9th in the league in clearances (4th for centre clearances and 13th for stoppage clearances) which is not to be ignored.

His disposal count is down though, which is the other side of the coin - he doesn't appear to be covering the ground as well and that has been noticeable in the some of the issues the the defence were getting blamed for. And as we all know, the lack of spread has been the main criticism of him over the years and the reason Gold Coast let him go.

I've never been a coach, but I imagine for most, the equation is simple: which matrix of players is going to give the greatest chance of success? Is a 80% Lyons better than a 100% Mathieson? I suspect it's about equal and that's where it gets tricky I think. If Matho drops away a bit the question won't go away about his long-term effectiveness in the team. When he has only 69% TOG and struggled at time with repeat efforts, how's that going to go against better stoppage teams?

For the record, what Matho gave us yesterday was exactly what I though the team had been missing. But anyone claiming surety based on Matho's performance is deluding themselves.

His clearance stats are overblown by the amount of clearances he attends

Not to say they’re worthless but only tells a part of the story

 

[rye]

does big o have the capacity to solo ruck coming off covid?

witts monsters him and fort last time we met anyway

i wouldnt mind seeing fort stay in for another week and give big o more time to recover

 

[Dalions]

Suns midfield is pretty slow. Keep both Matho and Lyons in. Team selection will be pretty tough if Zorko, Rich and Berry are fit

Give Zorko another week.
If anything, after all of his concerns this year, he needs a little mini pre-season to get himself fully fit and ready for finals. Same could be said of Rich.

 

[3KZ is Football]

It's a very hard week for selection. Assuming no Covid cookery, I'd be looking at:

Out: Sharp, Fort, Cockatoo
In: Berry, Oscar, Rich

If Zorko is in, then realistically one of Matho or Lyons has to go. The problem is, it won't be Lyons.

Fort and Cockatoo both played very decent football so it's a shame one or both would have to go out, but such is the curse of a good football team.

Zorko plays HBF and come in for Answerth. I wouldn’t change the midfield, except to maybe consider Lyons position.

 

[JasRulz63]

I don't know the answer to the Lyons riddle. I will say that much of some of the criticism has been overblown. He ranks 9th in the league in clearances (4th for centre clearances and 13th for stoppage clearances) which is not to be ignored.

His disposal count is down though, which is the other side of the coin - he doesn't appear to be covering the ground as well and that has been noticeable in the some of the issues the the defence were getting blamed for. And as we all know, the lack of spread has been the main criticism of him over the years and the reason Gold Coast let him go.

I do think part of his higher clearance numbers is that we tend to be a side that generates a lot of stoppages, and he does attend a fair few.

As a team we're 4th in the league for clearances/game, but also give up the highest clearances/game in the league (10th in clearance differential). So our games do generate high clearance numbers.

 

[martinson]

Lyons has to have a high number of clearances to generate value due to deficiencies in other aspects of his game. For his time at the club that's mostly been well worth it.

From the outside it's a bit hard to tell whether it's a form slump/part injury or a decline in his capacity but it does look like the latter.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Rich was AA last year and has elite disposal skills.

I'm wracking my brain to find where we can make better use of him because the backline looks a bit better without him in it tbh.

We sometimes struggle with good inside 50s, so maybe put him at high half forward?

 

[M Malice]

We sometimes struggle with good inside 50s, so maybe put him at high half forward?

Just give the ball to Kiddy every time and we'll be sweet.

 

[Gadzorks]

Just give the ball to Kiddy every time and we'll be sweet.

Kiddy is phenomenal, and he hasn't reached his ceiling yet.

He said that his brother is as good as him, but currently trying to rediscover his love of the game.

We really do need to show that developing in the twos, no matter how long it takes, is a valid pathway to the ones. Give these guys a goal.

 

[martinson]

Kiddy is phenomenal, and he hasn't reached his ceiling yet.

He said that his brother is as good as him, but currently trying to rediscover his love of the game.

We really do need to show that developing in the twos, no matter how long it takes, is a valid pathway to the ones. Give these guys a goal.

Blake has definitely improved this year . When we first mooted drafting him the word was he was as good as Kiddy.

 

[McIvor]

I dont envy the selectors job this week but I would like to see -

In - DevRob, Jerry, Rich, Lester, Oscar, (Prior as sub)

Out - Coleman - injured isnt he? Payne, Cockatoo, Fullarton as sub, Sharp & McStay (both out with Dan never to play again if he doesnt want to be at the club anymore)

I hope that club doesnt rush Zorko back just yet. Also, how long until Adams is back?

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Don’t take any risks with Zorks, Adams and Berry. I was nervous with Gardner but he got through the game well.

Several games to go so plenty of time

 

[M Malice]

Don’t take any risks with Zorks, Adams and Berry. I was nervous with Gardner but he got through the game well.

Several games to go so plenty of time

Fagan said that Zorko, Berry, Rich and Prior could have played yesterday but they decided to be extra cautious, I can't see them being extra extra cautious, they will play.

He didn't mention Adams.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Rowell might be missing next week for that tackle

 

[3KZ is Football]

I know . But when was the last decent game he played where he had an impact ? It was plain to see yesterday the difference to our M/F with Matho in there and Lyons in a lesser role.

I suppose it depends on whether Zorko is fit or not. Lyons has run out of chances in my view but we keep hoping next week is the week the old Lyons will turn up.

With both Lyons and Mathieson in the same team we were in the best position to compare the two. The biggest thing to come out of this was Mathieson committed his body in contests way more often. Lyons is more content letting his opponent take possession and then tackling. Mathieson’s commitment to getting the hard ball is a big point of contrast. It also explains why he draws frees.

 

[martinson]

With both Lyons and Mathieson in the same team we were in the best position to compare the two. The biggest thing to come out of this was Mathieson committed his body in contests way more often. Lyons is more content letting his opponent take possession and then tackling. Mathieson’s commitment to getting the hard ball is a big point of contrast. It also explains why he draws frees.

I was one of those who didn't think Matho would ever make it but on the basis of yesterday's performance I'm wondering whether he hasn't improved. It can happen you know.

He was quite effective inside and what hasn't changed is that he always commits totally to the contest.

Whatever ,he deserves a few games and we'll see what he can bring against better opposition. . I don't see we presently have anyone better for that role.

 

[martinson]

That piece of play where he got it to Rayner in the goal square was inspirational. I've seen Matho try and barge through like that plenty of times but never quite pull it off.

Yesterday's game will do wonders for his confidence. What a great story it would be if he could become a regular Senior player.

Everyone seems to know everything about his deficiencies to which I plead guilty.

 

[dlanod]

I don't know the answer to the Lyons riddle. I will say that much of some of the criticism has been overblown. He ranks 9th in the league in clearances (4th for centre clearances and 13th for stoppage clearances) which is not to be ignored.

I go back and forth on whether his clearance numbers are deceptive these days.

In previous years he'd win clearances off his own bat, hard ball get and go. This year it seems most of the clearances are on the back of a quick handball, especially from Neale having the hard ball get. It's both a sign of a slide - he's not getting the same hard ball gets he got last year and prior. And it's awesome when stats bear out the eye test - he's dropped from 7th last year to 33rd this year in ground ball gets.

Now getting in a position to receive those handballs and dispose of it forward is still a skill. But it's not the same impact as winning it himself, providing a great second option to Neale. Instead he's a subsidiary option for Neale, and we're becoming more dependent on Lachie as a result.

 

[McIvor]

With both Lyons and Mathieson in the same team we were in the best position to compare the two. The biggest thing to come out of this was Mathieson committed his body in contests way more often. Lyons is more content letting his opponent take possession and then tackling. Mathieson’s commitment to getting the hard ball is a big point of contrast. It also explains why he draws frees.

I'd also suggest we beat Essendon last week if Rhys played; sounded like Fagan thought so too. Astonishing that they only worked out following yesterday's game that Rhys brings a lot more positive attributes to the team than many of his teammates. Credit to Rhys and his passion for the jumper unlike quite a few others than pull it on.

 

[Gadzorks]

I'd also suggest we beat Essendon last week if Rhys played; sounded like Fagan thought so too. Astonishing that they only worked out following yesterday's game that Rhys brings a lot more positive attributes to the team than many of his teammates. Credit to Rhys and his passion for the jumper unlike quite a few others than pull it on.

Wonder if they will take a look at how we decide if twos players are ready for ones.

I think Keays journey was the same as Rhys, he just (quite rightly) moved on to take his opportunity.

 

[Dalions]

I go back and forth on whether his clearance numbers are deceptive these days.

In previous years he'd win clearances off his own bat, hard ball get and go. This year it seems most of the clearances are on the back of a quick handball, especially from Neale having the hard ball get. It's both a sign of a slide - he's not getting the same hard ball gets he got last year and prior. And it's awesome when stats bear out the eye test - he's dropped from 7th last year to 33rd this year in ground ball gets.

Now getting in a position to receive those handballs and dispose of it forward is still a skill. But it's not the same impact as winning it himself, providing a great second option to Neale. Instead he's a subsidiary option for Neale, and we're becoming more dependent on Lachie as a result.

Perfect summation.

 

[martinson]

I go back and forth on whether his clearance numbers are deceptive these days.

In previous years he'd win clearances off his own bat, hard ball get and go. This year it seems most of the clearances are on the back of a quick handball, especially from Neale having the hard ball get. It's both a sign of a slide - he's not getting the same hard ball gets he got last year and prior. And it's awesome when stats bear out the eye test - he's dropped from 7th last year to 33rd this year in ground ball gets.

Now getting in a position to receive those handballs and dispose of it forward is still a skill. But it's not the same impact as winning it himself, providing a great second option to Neale. Instead he's a subsidiary option for Neale, and we're becoming more dependent on Lachie as a result.

The other issue is if you have someone get it off Lachie you want them to be more penetrative and accurate with their disposal than JL has been this year. He now seems wedded to dinky little kicks that don't really break the back of the opposition with your forward thrust.

His overall numbers haven't dropped off to an alarming extent but enough ,and his impact with them has.

 

[davemc_lions]

The thing with Matho is you know what you get. He is a good solider on his day can be a great player.
Never really has a bad day. Unlike a lot of our players who are hot or cold.
Was thinking this for a while we have way to many ON or OFF players.
We need some more soldiers to help cover the gaps, as lately end up with 3-4 OFF players a week.

 

[wantok]

Perfect summation.

The Stats don't lie...Jarrod Lyons Ytd Comparison. Like for like 16 games

Disposals -18%
Contested -29%
UnContested -13%
Tackles -19%
Frees Against +119%

It is apparent he's not working as hard and is late to the contest. I'm sure the Coaches are aware of this.
Let's hope he can lift against the Suns as he always has.

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app