Gibbs will be a 29yo A- mid, Cameron is a raw talent about to become a full time mid heading into the prime of his career.
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Traded Charlie Cameron [traded to Brisbane]
- Thread starter Cleric
- Start date
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- Jul 13, 2012
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Which is exactly my point.
We give you a good pick and a youngish player for a guy that can make a difference now.
Carlton dont need a difference now.
The same reason we'd like to keep CC for one more year unless the offer is brilliant.
- Jul 13, 2012
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- Charlotte Hornets, Chelsea, Striker
The other thing is we aim to stay in the window.
Not bottom out for 10 years before re-emerging.
In any case, looking at the relative strengths of the 2 drafts as constantly mentioned on trade radio including from agents and club representatives then pick 40 next year wont be much worse than pick 20 this year...so what's the stress?! Let's keep the ready made Cameron for another year and he can play in our midfield and play finals.
Pick 12 or forget it...the weak 2017 draft weakens the Brisbane argument massively.
Tendo Jones
Senior List
Tom Mitchell was pick 14... He is a way better player than Cameron... Now I get that Cameron is contracted, but pick 12 is a bit unrealistic. Crows might end up hanging on to him, but pick 20 is very fair and Lions will probably extend to pick 18
- Oct 21, 2015
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It is when the guy has clearly stated he wants out and only wants Brisbane lol.
That will be our their round pick it'll be all we have and all of your leverage will be gone. Between you and Cleric you'd think Adelaide you can see why everyone wants to get away from Adelaide and its people.
SexyBlueGirl
Premiership Player
Sacrificing chances for improvement for an immediate flag? Play it that way then.
SexyBlueGirl
Premiership Player
Means Carlton go into a season with Cripps and Murph. Yeah, safe to say we still need Gibbs.
- Jul 13, 2012
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- 21,149
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- Adelaide
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- Charlotte Hornets, Chelsea, Striker
For what? For your crack at the finals?
You need to give the kids a run in there, otherwise when Gibbs and Murph leave they wont have had much midfield time and you'll end up in the same position.
- Jul 13, 2012
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Well I'd like us to have a crack now, but we're certainly not giving up 2 first round picks for a guy who wont even be top 5 in our team.
SexyBlueGirl
Premiership Player
If you really need to ask that I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you.
- Jul 6, 2017
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Surely the value of a player vs a draft pick is not the be all and end all if a trade involves player swaps between multiple clubs. Ie if Brisbane want Cameron, Carlton want Schache and Crows want Gibbs - if all 3 players want to leave their parent clubs to return to their home states, then why would Carlton say that Gibbs is worth more than Cameron and Crows say that they would only give up the compo pick for Cameron etc. If each club gets the player they want then why the fuss. Is too much value being placed on draft picks from all sides
- Jul 13, 2012
- 43,648
- 21,149
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- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Charlotte Hornets, Chelsea, Striker
The whole contracted thing isnt leverage...especially when a player has stated he will leave at the end of his contract anyhow.
Yes two people are representing the entire city of Adelaide. Two people trying to have an intelligent discussion but just getting shouted down.
Reid has already stated not interested in another first round pick, is there any player that would fit the bill?
- Jul 13, 2012
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No like seriously what is the difference this year if you win 3 games or 5?
or 6 games instead of 8?
- Oct 21, 2015
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That's because nothing either of you has said has been intelligent lol.
No player fits the bill.
- Jul 13, 2012
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As in no player wants to go? Or Bris wouldnt be happy to give up any of the players that Adel would request?
Tendo Jones
Senior List
If too much value is placed on picks, why not just take pick 20? It already an extremely fair offer
- Oct 21, 2015
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No one wants out and anyone you would want we would want to keep.
Any of our young and talented players there's no chance, any of our best 22 senior players highly unlikely as we need experience and stronger bodies. Unless you're talking about experienced players not in the 22 e.g. Bell or Berwick or Frost or something, which I doubt, then you're probably out of luck.
Only player who might be gettable is Paparone but even that would be highly unlikely.
- Jul 6, 2017
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so was a single first round draft pick for Gibbs (29 years old) but that misses the point, if a club wants a player and in the example I used each player is a valuable player in their own way and something that will add to the teams they would get to, then why even involve picks if each club gets the player it wants. I mean by this that lets say Brisbane relented and gave pick 12 to the crows for Cameron. Carlton would say nope, we want that and pick 16 as they know pick 12 was given for Cameron and they will say in their eyes Gibbs is worth more than Cameron and the crows will say nope, pick 12 is fair value. This actually becomes counter productive as if lets say Schache wants to go to Carlton and they want him, then why bother with draft picks and not just do a 3 way player trade where each club give up a valuable player but receives one back
Tendo Jones
Senior List
You have to look at each club's perspective. Would Crows give up Cameron for Gibbs? Absolutely. Would Brisbane give up Schache for Cameron? No, probably need something coming our way. Would Carlton lose Gibbs for Schache? No, they'd want more. Which is why a 3-way trade without picks doesn't work.
I'd say the crows are backing themselves with this one as they did land 2 first rounders from the Lever trade playing hard ball.
Also I think they understand that this is their window and hence why they really want a player.
Also I think they understand that this is their window and hence why they really want a player.
- Jul 6, 2017
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not sure about Brisbane not giving up Schache for Cameron. They are struggling to find a suitor and a late 1st rounder / second rounder is what has been talked up - that is certainly in Cameron territory. Carlton? it depends how much they might want Schache - if it turns out that they do want him then it could benefit all parties. For the exercise, assume Brisbane relent and offer pick 12 to the crows for cameron as they really want him and know that he will add a lot to their forward mix. Crows go great now we will give a good 1st round pick (pick 12) to Carlton for Gibbs (29 year old) and SOS has some thinking to do as pick 12 is a good pick. If he said OK then Carlton get pick 12. Brisbane then try and get pick 12 back off of Carlton for Schache as they say he was a pick 2 and is a KPF with immense promise and want a 1st round pick as he is also under contract and players like that don't grow on trees. So Brisbane look to get back pick 12 from Carlton (As the only other 1st round pick they have this year is pick 3 and there is no way they part with that) and we have come full circle. Could such a deal not be done with just a player swap?
- Oct 21, 2015
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- 5,551
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Close to a sure thing that we're going to get Cameron this year or next. There is no reason for us to trade Schache for him unnecessarily when we already have the currency for a fair offer.
Tendo Jones
Senior List
Why are we assuming that Brisbane will relent? 20 is extremely fair, they might stretch to 18, but won't stretch to 12... so your hypothetical is based on false assumptions. Also, it doesn't matter if there are no suitors for Schache, as the club and Josh's manager are ready for him to return to Brisbane if no trade can be struck, so there is no reason for Brisbane to take massive unders.
- Jul 6, 2017
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you are assuming brisbane won't relent - my HYPOTHETICAL was that they do. As for Schache - I was clear in saying Brisbane would want a 1st round pick for him...?????. It was a possible solution trade only with a few if's thrown in
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