Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[Whit3y]

Don't forget the other side of the equation - the number of injury prone players we kept for little reward:

- Menzel (pass)
- Vardy (fail)
- Cowan (massive fail)
- McCarthy (looking more and more like a fail now)

This is all at the same time, and exactly what some feared. Too many speculative trades for little to no reward (see the four names above), and at exactly the same time keeping very injury prone players who also don't provide reward (Menzel the sole exception). It's not a surprise and it isn't something that couldn't be predicted. Because a few on here did.

How many years was big Dawson on the list for? And ghs?

 

[strauchnyy]

Posted this in the Esava thread but it's more relevant here:

We all know (and at least now we all know for all the lovers) that Scott is a terrible coach with monumental stuff up after monumental stuff up.

But now, after the same problems have f*cked us for the first 3 games (not to mention the same weakenesses that have f*cked us for years that remain unfixed) he SURELY now has realised that we need to make the following changes:

1. Blicavs to KPD as a FB or CHB.

This stops stupid match ups like Zuthrie on Roughead. We effectively go Blicavs and Kolo as 2 tall defenders, Stewart as the 3rd rebounding defender. Frees up the smaller players too.

2. Bring Smith in to replace Blitz in the ruck.

Smith is our no.1 ruck who should NEVER have been dropped after round one. He is superior to Stanley and 1 bag game shouldn't banish him to the VFL when he is one of our more important players. If Scott played a ruck v West Coast (and I mean 17 other coaches and 99.999999% of Australians would have played a ruck against west coast) the outcome would've been different as Naitanui killed us (as expected) and drove them over the line with 3 goals directly from his taps.

3. Play Esava as a key forward together with Hawkins.

FFS scott, don't ruin this kid too by playing him all over the place (think Gregson, Gurthrie Parfitt playing forward, Lang even Smedts were all played out of position and lost confidence etc.) settle him as a second tall forward. Esava and Blitz can provide relief minutes to Smith, but Smith should be rucking the same minutes as Nank for tigs or Sandi for freo.. ie the maximum.

This give us STRUCTURE. It settles the team and it will improve our defence, ruck and gives Esava more rest up forward to impact games.

It is the most simple, logical and OBVIOUS coaching amendment... surely Scott will know to do this.... surely.... (he probably won't know to do this and will continue with our current set up... what's the definition of insanity again?)

 

[Two Planks]

Posted this in the Esava thread but it's more relevant here:

We all know (and at least now we all know for all the lovers) that Scott is a terrible coach with monumental stuff up after monumental stuff up.

But now, after the same problems have f*cked us for the first 3 games (not to mention the same weakenesses that have f*cked us for years that remain unfixed) he SURELY now has realised that we need to make the following changes:

1. Blicavs to KPD as a FB or CHB.

This stops stupid match ups like Zuthrie on Roughead. We effectively go Blicavs and Kolo as 2 tall defenders, Stewart as the 3rd rebounding defender. Frees up the smaller players too.

2. Bring Smith in to replace Blitz in the ruck.

Smith is our no.1 ruck who should NEVER have been dropped after round one. He is superior to Stanley and 1 bag game shouldn't banish him to the VFL when he is one of our more important players. If Scott played a ruck v West Coast (and I mean 17 other coaches and 99.999999% of Australians would have played a ruck against west coast) the outcome would've been different as Naitanui killed us (as expected) and drove them over the line with 3 goals directly from his taps.

3. Play Esava as a key forward together with Hawkins.

FFS scott, don't ruin this kid too by playing him all over the place (think Gregson, Gurthrie Parfitt playing forward, Lang even Smedts were all played out of position and lost confidence etc.) settle him as a second tall forward. Esava and Blitz can provide relief minutes to Smith, but Smith should be rucking the same minutes as Nank for tigs or Sandi for freo.. ie the maximum.

This give us STRUCTURE. It settles the team and it will improve our defence, ruck and gives Esava more rest up forward to impact games.

It is the most simple, logical and OBVIOUS coaching amendment... surely Scott will know to do this.... surely.... (he probably won't know to do this and will continue with our current set up... what's the definition of insanity again?)

The system only allows me to like this post once. If I could have liked it 20 times I would have.

Great post, sums it up perfectly.

 

[Partridge]

How many years was big Dawson on the list for? And ghs?

Simpson was 8 years. To be fair Horlin-Smith has never had a major injury. Though it’s a fair question to ask why they extended his contract three years ago if they didn’t intend to play him.

 

[Vdubs]

Posted this in the Esava thread but it's more relevant here:

We all know (and at least now we all know for all the lovers) that Scott is a terrible coach with monumental stuff up after monumental stuff up.

But now, after the same problems have f*cked us for the first 3 games (not to mention the same weakenesses that have f*cked us for years that remain unfixed) he SURELY now has realised that we need to make the following changes:

1. Blicavs to KPD as a FB or CHB.

This stops stupid match ups like Zuthrie on Roughead. We effectively go Blicavs and Kolo as 2 tall defenders, Stewart as the 3rd rebounding defender. Frees up the smaller players too.

2. Bring Smith in to replace Blitz in the ruck.

Smith is our no.1 ruck who should NEVER have been dropped after round one. He is superior to Stanley and 1 bag game shouldn't banish him to the VFL when he is one of our more important players. If Scott played a ruck v West Coast (and I mean 17 other coaches and 99.999999% of Australians would have played a ruck against west coast) the outcome would've been different as Naitanui killed us (as expected) and drove them over the line with 3 goals directly from his taps.

3. Play Esava as a key forward together with Hawkins.

FFS scott, don't ruin this kid too by playing him all over the place (think Gregson, Gurthrie Parfitt playing forward, Lang even Smedts were all played out of position and lost confidence etc.) settle him as a second tall forward. Esava and Blitz can provide relief minutes to Smith, but Smith should be rucking the same minutes as Nank for tigs or Sandi for freo.. ie the maximum.

This give us STRUCTURE. It settles the team and it will improve our defence, ruck and gives Esava more rest up forward to impact games.

It is the most simple, logical and OBVIOUS coaching amendment... surely Scott will know to do this.... surely.... (he probably won't know to do this and will continue with our current set up... what's the definition of insanity again?)

With all respect, great to have an opinion, but to assume that your armchair opinion is superior to the gathered information that CS/MC deals with is questionable.
He has said all year that the training form of Smith was inferior to Stanley's - that is saying something- and what should have pleased most fans here is that Stanley did get dropped, and now they tried Sav. From what I read over the weekend, big Sav was in our best- as a ruckman.

Blic would have played on Rough if Sav was not a last minute out with injury.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Simpson was 8 years. To be fair Horlin-Smith has never had a major injury. Though it’s a fair question to ask why they extended his contract three years ago if they didn’t intend to play him.

He missed more than half of last year I think. Maybe not a major injury but he was out for a significant period of time.

Also the 3 year deal for him was perfectly reasonable and has worked out fine. We knew there were question marks over whether he'd make it but from everything we've heard about him he's a quality person and great leader to have around the club. Those types of people are pretty important when you've got a lot of mature players going out of the squad and kids coming in. He's also a competent player who's done a job before for us and would do a job again. More than anything he's unfortunate that we've had guys like Menegola and Kelly basically come from nowhere meaning the midfield is stacked and he doesn't have the versatility to play elsewhere. Still having a mature leader on low wages who provides depth and sets the standards at VFL level is a pretty good thing overall.

 

[Two Planks]

With all respect, great to have an opinion, but to assume that your armchair opinion is superior to the gathered information that CS/MC deals with is questionable.
He has said all year that the training form of Smith was inferior to Stanley's - that is saying something- and what should have pleased most fans here is that Stanley did get dropped, and now they tried Sav. From what I read over the weekend, big Sav was in our best- as a ruckman.

Blic would have played on Rough if Sav was not a last minute out with injury.

What other team that is supposedly contending is playing a 2nd game 20 year old as their number 1 ruckman by choice.

 

[Footy Smarts]

With all respect, great to have an opinion, but to assume that your armchair opinion is superior to the gathered information that CS/MC deals with is questionable.
He has said all year that the training form of Smith was inferior to Stanley's - that is saying something- and what should have pleased most fans here is that Stanley did get dropped, and now they tried Sav. From what I read over the weekend, big Sav was in our best- as a ruckman.

Blic would have played on Rough if Sav was not a last minute out with injury.

To be honest I'm not convinced that Blics and Esava in the ruck isn't our best option this year. Yes Natanui did plenty but Esava's ruckwork has improved out of sight since the JLT (maybe he had a couple of bad games there) and Blicavs is more competitive than a few years ago. Sure we'd get beaten around the ball but our run and carry on the weekend was seriously impressive at times. The 3rd quarter and early in the last was as dominant as I've seen us in recent times. Whenever Scott tries something different we're very quick to point out the (normally obvious) flaws but we spend little time considering the benefits.

 

[Vdubs]

What other team that is supposedly contending is playing a 2nd game 20 year old as their number 1 ruckman by choice.

Have Stanley and Smith featured in our best players this year?
Has Esava?

 

[Two Planks]

Have Stanley and Smith featured in our best players this year?
Has Esava?

The expectations of the 1st couple a little different to Esava.

Smith should be the ruckman with Stanley and Esava competing for the 2nd key forward spot.

 

[Vdubs]

The expectations of the 1st couple a little different to Esava.

Smith should be the ruckman with Stanley and Esava competing for the 2nd key forward spot.

Agree, but how many here criticise CS if out of form players are gifted games. He is making statements.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

How many years was big Dawson on the list for? And ghs?

Every club would have hits and misses with list management. The furore over it is hilariously OTT.

Also the 3 year deal for him was perfectly reasonable and has worked out fine. We knew there were question marks over whether he'd make it but from everything we've heard about him he's a quality person and great leader to have around the club. Those types of people are pretty important when you've got a lot of mature players going out of the squad and kids coming in. He's also a competent player who's done a job before for us and would do a job again. More than anything he's unfortunate that we've had guys like Menegola and Kelly basically come from nowhere meaning the midfield is stacked and he doesn't have the versatility to play elsewhere. Still having a mature leader on low wages who provides depth and sets the standards at VFL level is a pretty good thing overall.

This.

I'm sure glad we have some hardened senior depth atm. We're reaching the youth saturation point.
George would likely have spent most of his career here under the average wage.

 

[Two Planks]

Agree, but how many here criticise CS if out of form players are gifted games. He is making statements.

And costing us wins.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Every club would have hits and misses with list management. The furore over it is hilariously OTT.

This.

I'm sure glad we have some hardened senior depth atm. We're reaching the youth saturation point.
George would likely have spent most of his career here under the average wage.

Doesn't seem like it with all the kids in the side.

 

[cynical]

This give us STRUCTURE.

As you know Chris Scott hasn't settled with a fixed structure since we had Pods and even then once he got his favourite pet Blicavs he started trying all sorts of things.

For 5-6 years he has been mixing it up with consistently poor finals results.

Unfortunately I cant see him sticking to a basic 2 KPD, 1/2 Rucks, 2 KPF structure

He will continue to just play the players he wants regardless of structure.

Little wonder our players freeze in finals they dont know who is where (with the exception of bomb it long to hawkins).

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Doesn't seem like it with all the kids in the side.

You sir are seriously thick, or being deliberately obtuse. I hope the latter, I really do.

Depth not in the side: Smith, Stanley, Black, Crameri, Murdoch, Thurlow, GHS, Abbott. Even House has a hardened body.

 

[Two Planks]

The hardened senior depth is Crameri, Black, GHS, Murdoch and Smith and they are being overlooked for youngsters such as Parsons, Esava, Henry, Fogarty and O'Connor.

 

[cynical]

Agree, but how many here criticise CS if out of form players are gifted games. He is making statements.

He has had 7 years to make statements seems weird that he is starting now.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

You sir are seriously thick, or being deliberately obtuse. I hope the latter, I really do.

Depth not in the side: Smith, Stanley, Black, Crameri, Murdoch, Thurlow, GHS, Abbott. Even House has a hardened body.

Why aren't they in the side then? What good is depth if you're not using it? Where's the value in keeping them if they're not being played?

 

[Cataholic]

You sir are seriously thick, or being deliberately obtuse. I hope the latter, I really do.

Depth not in the side: Smith, Stanley, Black, Crameri, Murdoch, Thurlow, GHS, Abbott. Even House has a hardened body.

I see those 3 as being very shallow - I doubt Black or GHS will play a senior game, and if they do, we’re in trouble. Abbott is also unlikely it seems.

Stanley will go end of year I reckon.

Murdoch is touch and go, Thurlow better pull his finger out, and quick, whilst Crameri needs to get off the sick bed.

That leaves Smith.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I see those 3 as being very shallow - I doubt Black or GHS will play a senior game, and if they do, we’re in trouble. Abbott is also unlikely it seems.

Stanley will go end of year I reckon.

Murdoch is touch and go, Thurlow better pull his finger out, and quick, whilst Crameri needs to get off the sick bed.

That leaves Smith.

Missing the point. Talking about hardened bodies.

 

[Cataholic]

The hardened senior depth is Crameri, Black, GHS, Murdoch and Smith and they are being overlooked for youngsters such as Parsons, Esava, Henry, Fogarty and O'Connor.

Most of that ‘hardened’ depth has proven soft in the heat of battle though

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Most of that ‘hardened’ depth has proven soft in the heat of battle though

See this is where it's no win though on here.

Certain group moan about too many kids playing.... Moan about players being held for too long as being bad list management.
Make your bloody minds up. This place is the king on contradictions.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

To be honest I'm not convinced that Blics and Esava in the ruck isn't our best option this year. Yes Natanui did plenty but Esava's ruckwork has improved out of sight since the JLT (maybe he had a couple of bad games there) and Blicavs is more competitive than a few years ago. Sure we'd get beaten around the ball but our run and carry on the weekend was seriously impressive at times. The 3rd quarter and early in the last was as dominant as I've seen us in recent times. Whenever Scott tries something different we're very quick to point out the (normally obvious) flaws but we spend little time considering the benefits.

The kid is 19, and rucking is the hardest gig on the ground. You may as well name a bed in the rehab room after him for the next couple of years if we flog a 19 year old in the ruck throughout the year. Nic Nac started young, didn't he?

We got Smith. Put a cracker up his arse and hope for the best.

 

[Cataholic]

See this is where it's no win though on here.

Certain group moan about too many kids playing.... Moan about players being held for too long as being bad list management.
Make your bloody minds up. This place is the king on contradictions.

Not sure where I’ve moaned about anything?

I have no issue with playing the youngsters - they’re our future.

But I don’t find consolation in the claim we have any depth behind them, because I don’t believe it. From my perspective, the depth is very shallow.