Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[Kurve]

Anyone see the comment about the sex worker saying he was a regular?

WE KNEW IT!!

Wot! Where?????

Yes! Yes we did know it!

 

[javaguice]

Wot! Where?????

Yes! Yes we did know it!

Unmasking a killer: The 'psychopath' hidden within a seemingly ordinary man

Bradley Edwards lived two very different lives: to most he was a simple family man, but in private he was a rapist and murderer who turned to prostitutes and writing rape fantasy stories to suppress his urge to kill.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[Girlnextdoor]

My best moment from going in today was not only the guilty outcome but when Barbagallo walked out onto the outside steps she got a well deserved round of applause from all the crowd.
I also heard that Liam Bartlett is doing a 60 minutes segment Sunday night that he’s waiting for a court order to release some info.
Premier Mark McGowen has just asked for Edwards to disclose where Sarah is for her family sake during his press conference as well.

Surely he was only a POI after they matched the prints from HH and Huntingdale right? What year was that discovered?

Or maybe I’m confused on the details but when did they get a fingerprint match?

I think he showed us in pleading guilty to the Huntingdale and KK charges, he is prepared to admit guilt if he believes it's to his advantage.

He might hold out though until his options for appeal are explored. Still a way to go though imo, we shall see.

A big screen TV and an autographed photo of The Eagles team perhaps as bargaining chips? Crims have sung like canaries for less!

 

[Girlnextdoor]

A big screen TV and an autographed photo of The Eagles team perhaps as bargaining chips? Crims have sung like canaries for less!

PS I have NO idea how I'm getting multiple people I'm replying to, only wanted to reply to you at this stage Kurve? Hi to everyone anyway!!

 

[JezzaPerth]

Unmasking a killer: The 'psychopath' hidden within a seemingly ordinary man

Bradley Edwards lived two very different lives: to most he was a simple family man, but in private he was a rapist and murderer who turned to prostitutes and writing rape fantasy stories to suppress his urge to kill.

www.watoday.com.au

View attachment 969779

Perhaps ms finch knows the stats about how many men in different age groups visit/visited sex workers? Or more to the point what proportion of men in their late 20s and 30s visited sex workes around 1997 - 2002?

The answer may give an idea whether BRE was unusual in his cohort.

 

[javaguice]

Perhaps ms finch knows the stats about how many men in different age groups visit prostitutes? Or more to the point what proportion of men in their late 20s and 30s visit prostitutes?

The answer may give an idea whether BRE was unusual in his cohort.

Haha - mixed bag I reckon Jezza. Raises the question about any missing sex workers. He would have liked this regular bird, but if he picked up a girl in less conspicuous circumstances and if he had a bad day....who knows.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Haha - mixed bag I reckon Jezza. Raises the question about any missing sex workers. He would have liked this regular bird, but if he picked up a girl in less conspicuous circumstances and if he had a bad day....who knows.

At least one worker went missing from Northbridge around the time of the killing spree. Apparentlly there were quite a few on the street then and many didn't have male backup around the corner.

 

[Kurve]

The Hollywood Hospital victim.

 

[ms finch]

Perhaps ms finch knows the stats about how many men in different age groups visit/visited sex workers? Or more to the point what proportion of men in their late 20s and 30s visited sex workes around 1997 - 2002?

The answer may give an idea whether BRE was unusual in his cohort.

Edwards would most definitely not be unusual.

The most surprising thing about statistics of those who visit sex workers is that there isn’t a pattern. All (adult) age groups and demographics are prevalent and fairly equal users of sex workers. The curve goes slightly upwards as men hit about 45, and older men are more likely to be regulars, which is thought to be because the reasons for visiting a sex worker are what changes, and men are more comfortable using the services as they get older. I saw clients everywhere from 18 (sometimes I checked ID!) to 90 (hats off to those guys!) and I had as many inquiries from guys in their mid 20s and 30s as in their 40s and 50s. I had clients right across the spectrum from famous to pensioners, from fascinating to the most mind numbing boring individuals you could imagine. I had guys who were very honest about their lives and guys who constructed entire obvious fantasies about their lives.

I think I said in my first post here that I did not think Edwards visiting sex workers would be significant, and that he was unlikely to have been violent because that would have been known about, and would only have been recalled if he was a regular client. I still think that. I don’t think it means anything that he saw sex workers given the breadth of men who do, and the fact that there is no report from this worker that he was anything odd. I suspect he will have seen others, too, but that isn’t recalled because he was nothing out of the ordinary. I just don’t think it means anything.

I’d be fascinated to know what she looks like. If she is in her 20s and has dark blonde wavy hair then that indicates a major type for him, and might be interesting psychologically, especially with regards to the timing of when he saw her. If she looks completely different then that was literally just him getting off.

I would also really like to know how much investigation has been done to link Lisa Brown to Edwards. She is frighteningly similar in appearance to Jane and Ciara. Look at her hair.

 

[JezzaPerth]

I’d be fascinated to know what she looks like. If she is in her 20s and has dark blonde wavy hair then that indicates a major type for him, and might be interesting psychologically, especially with regards to the timing of when he saw her. If she looks completely different then that was literally just him getting off.

I would also really like to know how much investigation has been done to link Lisa Brown to Edwards. She is frighteningly similar in appearance to Jane and Ciara. Look at her hair.

Wife # 2 was short and dark haired - or as much as I can tell from the pixellated photos.

There is also the inconsistency in have a significantly older girlfriend at one stage.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Really want to know what was in his bedroom that spooked the other bloke so bad.

Also why the wife/gf was stopped by Hall when on the stand during her questioning.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Really want to know what was in his bedroom that spooked the other bloke so bad.

Also why the wife/gf was stopped by Hall when on the stand during her statement.

She was stopped by Carmel and Paul simultaneously.

There was nothing in the admissibility ruling but perhaps it had been agreed by defence and prosecution?

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Edwards would most definitely not be unusual.

The most surprising thing about statistics of those who visit sex workers is that there isn’t a pattern. All (adult) age groups and demographics are prevalent and fairly equal users of sex workers. The curve goes slightly upwards as men hit about 45, and older men are more likely to be regulars, which is thought to be because the reasons for visiting a sex worker are what changes, and men are more comfortable using the services as they get older. I saw clients everywhere from 18 (sometimes I checked ID!) to 90 (hats off to those guys!) and I had as many inquiries from guys in their mid 20s and 30s as in their 40s and 50s. I had clients right across the spectrum from famous to pensioners, from fascinating to the most mind numbing boring individuals you could imagine. I had guys who were very honest about their lives and guys who constructed entire obvious fantasies about their lives.

I think I said in my first post here that I did not think Edwards visiting sex workers would be significant, and that he was unlikely to have been violent because that would have been known about, and would only have been recalled if he was a regular client. I still think that. I don’t think it means anything that he saw sex workers given the breadth of men who do, and the fact that there is no report from this worker that he was anything odd. I suspect he will have seen others, too, but that isn’t recalled because he was nothing out of the ordinary. I just don’t think it means anything.

I’d be fascinated to know what she looks like. If she is in her 20s and has dark blonde wavy hair then that indicates a major type for him, and might be interesting psychologically, especially with regards to the timing of when he saw her. If she looks completely different then that was literally just him getting off.

I would also really like to know how much investigation has been done to link Lisa Brown to Edwards. She is frighteningly similar in appearance to Jane and Ciara. Look at her hair.

Ms Finch, i saw a programme once by Louis Theroux and Brothels and in that he talked about The Boyfriend Experience and clients who kept requesting the same girl and wanting to "act out" that she was their girlfriend, lots of kissing, whispering sweet nothings quite creepy actually the guy they showed. He was acting out love scenes from movies, like grabbing the poor woman and thrusting her up against the wall to passionately kiss her before they got to the room??? Do you think BRE might have been like this, hence the no anger/ aggression, she's HIS special girl and he'd NEVER hurt HER? This just popped into my head, any chance i might be right??

 

[ms finch]

Wife # 2 was short and dark haired - or as much as I can tell from the pixellated photos.

There is also the inconsistency in have a significantly older girlfriend at one stage.

It’s not uncommon for men who see sex workers to go for something completely different to what they do in their personal lives (as in, almost opposing). For the same reason it has never surprised me that the women Edwards abducted and killed looked completely different to his partners. There is actually a psychology behind it that has been studied, although I’ve never read the literature.

 

[Kurve]

A Current Affair now. Tim Watson Munro forensic psychologist and Xanthe Mallet criminologist will appear I think. You might be able to catch up online later if you miss it.

 

[ms finch]

Ms Finch, i saw a programme once by Louis Theroux and Brothels and in that he talked about The Boyfriend Experience and clients who kept requesting the same girl and wanting to "act out" that she was their girlfriend, lots of kissing, whispering sweet nothings quite creepy actually the guy they showed. He was acting out love scenes from movies, like grabbing the poor woman and thrusting her up against the wall to passionately kiss her before they got to the room??? Do you think BRE might have been like this, hence the no anger/ aggression, she's HIS special girl and he'd NEVER hurt HER? This just popped into my head, any chance i might be right??

Yes, you absolutely could be right. I have encountered many clients like this myself.

 

[zacz]

Trial results went exactly like I thought they would. Does anyone know if the suppression orders are still in place now that the main trial has concluded? I hope we will hear what the first wife's boyfriend and second wife were going to say before they were cut off.

 

[BFew]

Anyone see the comment about the sex worker saying he was a regular?

Sorry I posted the article that it was in and in my skimming thru it I only did a word search for "prostitute" ... oops

 

[Kurve]

Trial results went exactly like I thought they would. Does anyone know if the suppression orders are still in place now that the main trial has concluded? I hope we will hear what the first wife's boyfriend and second wife were going to say before they were cut off.

The suppression orders over protected persons remain but we're doing really well engaging with those in mind.

 

[Wombot]

Trial results went exactly like I thought they would. Does anyone know if the suppression orders are still in place now that the main trial has concluded? I hope we will hear what the first wife's boyfriend and second wife were going to say before they were cut off.

Maybe we’ll find out tonight on channel 9 at 7.30pm.

 

[Pamcake1]

ABC 7.30 a report on now

 

[Visions]

Indications they might be prepared to offer him a chance at parole some time even if he's 85yo, rather than a no hope 'Never to be Released' if he tells them where Sarah is.

I suspect the Glennon and Rimmer families would be agreeable.

I understand that and having a glimmer of hope after all is said and done might be agreeable for him to spill the beans.

However I found it strange that a Premier would say that when he had been found not guilty of the murder of Sarah (as opposed to if he was found guilty when the comment wouldn't be controversial). By saying what he did, the Premier is inferring that the court got it wrong and it could be interpreted as meddling in the affairs of the legal profession which I thought was a huge no no on the part of politicians.

 

[BFew]

Edwards’ hospital victim bravely waives anonymity

The social worker who was attacked by Claremont killer Bradley Edwards at Hollywood Hospital more than 30 years ago can finally be revealed after courageously agreeing to lift a suppression order.

thewest.com.au

Wendy Davis is the woman who said she thought she was going to die when Edwards jumped her from behind and tried to drag into a toilet cubicle after stuffing her mouth with a cloth as she sat at her desk in May 1990.
Up until today, her name and image had been suppressed — but this afternoon she courageously agreed to allow the suppression order to be lifted.

 

[Visions]

FWIW the boyfriend thinks he's not guilty...

Did he give any reason(s) as to why he thought that? Being someone who knew him somewhat and wasn't an actual biased family member, it would be interesting to know why he didn't think it was BRE.

 

[JezzaPerth]

I understand that and having a glimmer of hope after all is said and done might be agreeable for him to spill the beans.

However I found it strange that a Premier would say that when he had been found not guilty of the murder of Sarah (as opposed to if he was found guilty when the comment wouldn't be controversial). By saying what he did, the Premier is inferring that the court got it wrong and it could be interpreted as meddling in the affairs of the legal profession which I thought was a huge no no on the part of politicians.

Justice Hall didn't entirely dismiss the probability BRE killed Sarah Spiers. He said there was not evidence beyond reasonable doubt, but that it was possible, indeed probable BRE had done so.

In legal speak there are two different tests. Beyond Reasonable Doubt, and On the Balance of Probabilities

On the balance of probabilities is allowed in a number of laws where beyond reasonable doubt isn't mandated.

When Hall used the word probable it was deliberate and was strongly hinting the Balance of Probabilities criteria had been met. That is enough for all sorts of legal options.

For example in the New Zealand Bain family murder case, the accused was acquitted on a retrial, but when he tried to get compensation for the time served he didn't get any because on the balance of probabilities he was guilty. (Though he was paid out money to stop being a nuisance but it wasn't in any way compensation for being imprisoned)