Coach Clarkson has left the building

[KermitJagger]

a tassie teams issues will be more like port adelaides than gold cost or gw$

It'll be more like Fremantle, Port Adelaide had a large supporter base as a SANFL club and that "storied" history they won't shut up about.

Arguably it'll be worse than Fremantle though, because Tasmania have had more of their stars play in the VFL/AFL than the other states did with their own leagues. They're more invested in Victorian teams.

From an equality point of view it's a good feeling to have a team in the state, but realistically they're going to struggle to sustain themselves.

 

[Yardie]

It'll be more like Fremantle, Port Adelaide had a large supporter base as a SANFL club and that "storied" history they won't shut up about.

Arguably it'll be worse than Fremantle though, because Tasmania have had more of their stars play in the VFL/AFL than the other states did with their own leagues. They're more invested in Victorian teams.

From an equality point of view it's a good feeling to have a team in the state, but realistically they're going to struggle to sustain themselves.

Fremantle did prove that you can take two supporter bases that hated each other and get them to follow one team.

 

[goldfinger]

I sort of liken it to when Melbourne Storm were established. I was a big Parramatta fan before then, and now follow them both. I know right.

Huge job though, and I wouldn't be surprised to see whichever way it goes, success or basket case

 

[flinchfree]

I sort of liken it to when Melbourne Storm were established. I was a big Parramatta fan before then, and now follow them both. I know right.

Huge job though, and I wouldn't be surprised to see whichever way it goes, success or basket case

I moved to Canberra when I was 19, was a casual Parramatta fan before that but quickly got on the Big Green Machine train.....Meninga, Daley, it was sick.
Kept moving around the country/world and when Melbourne came into NRL, I was Storm first, Raiders/Eels second.
As a kid watching the NFL in the early 80's I saw Marino and became a Dolphins fan, then Montana/Rice in Superbowls and took a liking to the 49ers, moved to Chicago in 2000 and became a Bears fan foremost, before landing in Kansas the last 15 years and it's Chiefs first, Bears/Dolphins/9ers second.

I can easily see the overwhelming majority of Tasmanians being state affiliated first if they get a team into the AFL, and whoever they used to like being their 'second' team.
Don't reckon the Nth/Sth thing is a stopper, merely something to work through over their early history.
Any success and you watch, they won't care which ground they were on to qualify for finals, there'll be a roar across the map.
People undervalue the heartbreak that State has gone through hoping for a national side the last 20+ years.
The pump up getting a dark green jersey into the comp would absolutely fill Tassie, and whatever issue they've had with numbers at local footy would get a humungous boost.

You guys are overthinking it.
Tassie folk are very proud of their state, their lifestyle, and their historical connection to our native game.
Slam dunk for mine.
Much more deserving of national representation than all of Brisbane, Gold Coast, Western Sydney, Regular Sydney, and Essendon.

 

[Hodgey 15]

I moved to Canberra when I was 19, was a casual Parramatta fan before that but quickly got on the Big Green Machine train.....Meninga, Daley, it was sick.
Kept moving around the country/world and when Melbourne came into NRL, I was Storm first, Raiders/Eels second.
As a kid watching the NFL in the early 80's I saw Marino and became a Dolphins fan, then Montana/Rice in Superbowls and took a liking to the 49ers, moved to Chicago in 2000 and became a Bears fan foremost, before landing in Kansas the last 15 years and it's Chiefs first, Bears/Dolphins/9ers second.

I can easily see the overwhelming majority of Tasmanians being state affiliated first if they get a team into the AFL, and whoever they used to like being their 'second' team.
Don't reckon the Nth/Sth thing is a stopper, merely something to work through over their early history.
Any success and you watch, they won't care which ground they were on to qualify for finals, there'll be a roar across the map.
People undervalue the heartbreak that State has gone through hoping for a national side the last 20+ years.
The pump up getting a dark green jersey into the comp would absolutely fill Tassie, and whatever issue they've had with numbers at local footy would get a humungous boost.

You guys are overthinking it.
Tassie folk are very proud of their state, their lifestyle, and their historical connection to our native game.
Slam dunk for mine.
Much more deserving of national representation than all of Brisbane, Gold Coast, Western Sydney, Regular Sydney, and Essendon.

From someone like me who lives in Southern Tassie I reckon you have hit the nail on the head here
And if I could also add in regards to the north vs south aspect, as a southerner and someone who's had many conversations with fellow southerners, almost to a man, we just want a Tassie team. The parochialism aspect doesn't come into it with people I've spoken to. Getting a team is the overriding factor.
I'm sure there's other Taswegians who may have differing views but that's where this one is at.



On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dragz]

How many supporters will stop supporting their current team and switch to Tassie? Anyone here going to ditch the Hawks and become a full on Tassie supporter? When the WA and SA teams entered, local footy was still huge and there were only 2 or 3 AFL games on tv each week.

I would expect close to Zero. However, a lot would buy a Tassie membership and go to matches to support them. (Well, support them against other teams, not against the Hawks)

 

[Hodgey 15]

How many supporters will stop supporting their current team and switch to Tassie? Anyone here going to ditch the Hawks and become a full on Tassie supporter? When the WA and SA teams entered, local footy was still huge and there were only 2 or 3 AFL games on tv each week.

I definitely wont be ditching the Hawks and it would be highly unlikley any rusted on Tassie supporters will just abandon teams they've been supporting for life (none of the AFL followers I've spoken to are anyway). There's no way in the world I can or want to stop following this club that's given me so much.
BUT...believe me, I'll be signing up for a Tassie membership as soon as I possibly can. It would be so bloody awesome supporting and watching my home state running around in the AFL.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I think you’d find also that a lot of the current generation who support a mainland club but will cheer on a Tassie team also will eventually see the next generation of supporters more adopt the local side and not their parents side. It’s a long-term play but I dare say in 20 years you’d find that younger fan base being parochial Tassie supporters and not having any affinity with their parents’ mainland club.

 

[Goldhawk]

I think you’d find also that a lot of the current generation who support a mainland club but will cheer on a Tassie team also will eventually see the next generation of supporters more adopt the local side and not their parents side. It’s a long-term play but I dare say in 20 years you’d find that younger fan base being parochial Tassie supporters and not having any affinity with their parents’ mainland club.

While i agree with you, our Tassie membership will take a hit once a team is established as one would expect.

I just hope that our marketing department will come up with a innovative plan that will continue to increase our mainland base members to counter our loss in Tasmania members.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

While i agree with you, our Tassie membership will take a hit once a team is established as one would expect.

I just hope that our marketing department will come up with a innovative plan that will continue to increase our mainland base members to counter our loss in Tasmania members.

If only our club president that you so lovingly adore had some kind of plan for our stagnating membership numbers that has seen us continually slip down the membership ladder while other clubs substantially grow their member base, even through covid years. Glad that you’re sitting the blame on the marketing department though that is likely gutted completely due to staff cuts last year.

 

[Goldhawk]

Have you finished your rant about Jeff lol

 

[Flamin Joe]

It'll be more like Fremantle, Port Adelaide had a large supporter base as a SANFL club and that "storied" history they won't shut up about.

A bit off topic but many years ago in the 90's I went to a Norwood vs Port Adelaide game at Norwood Oval and actually met a Port Adelaide supporter who followed Hawthorn. No joke!

Both my mate and I (my mate also supports Hawthorn) we're stunned as this was unheard of. Most Port Adelaide supporters, at least what we knew, followed Collingwood before the Power came along and many switched to the Power or followed the both after they entered the AFL. But to find one following Hawthorn and sticking to them despite the Power at the time being in the AFL was a rare find.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Have you finished your rant about Jeff lol

Come up with a pro-Jeff argument that isn’t just presumptive partisan sneering yet?

 

[Goldhawk]

You just have to settle down a bit mate, Jeff tenure will finish in 2023.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You just have to settle down a bit mate, Jeff tenure will finish in 2023.

Just as I thought, another deflection because you have absolutely zero to offer as a rebuttal. Tremendous input.

 

[Mercy Seat]

A bit off topic but many years ago in the 90's I went to a Norwood vs Port Adelaide game at Norwood Oval and actually met a Port Adelaide supporter who followed Hawthorn. No joke!

Both my mate and I (my mate also supports Hawthorn) we're stunned as this was unheard of. Most Port Adelaide supporters, at least what we knew, followed Collingwood before the Power came along and many switched to the Power or followed the both after they entered the AFL. But to find one following Hawthorn and sticking to them despite the Power at the time being in the AFL was a rare find.

My old mans family is all port but they all had different VFL teams including dad who is North. Funnily never jumped back on Port in the AFL, stuck with North.

 

[Pinoy Hawk]

More Richie

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

The article has spoken about :
WHY DID HAWTHORN MOVE ON FROM CLARKSON?
THE ILL-FATED SUCCESSION PLAN
SAM MITCHELL’S NATHAN BUCKLEY-ESQUE GROWTH
PAYING OUT CLARKSON
HAWKS CONFIRM PLAN TO BE BIG PLAYERS IN TRADE, DRAFT .... which we have seen in HS late yesterday


Snippet from WHY DID HAWTHORN MOVE ON FROM CLARKSON?

But it is clear the Hawks board that had given him everything – cap space, recruiting targets – since the end of the three-peat felt he had underperformed in that time.

“I think we have got to reflect a bit. It’s six years since we won a flag and we have been out in the wilderness for a while,” Vandenberg said.

“We showed a bit in 2016 and 2018 and got into the finals but we couldn’t fire a shot and then that starts to raise questions about our direction and our list and what does the future hold?

“That is the process we have been through, and the performances on the field are plain to see for everyone in the last couple of years.

“The standards we set for ourselves, both from a win-loss perspective but more the way we go about it. We want to get back to being the Hawthorn we were and the Hawthorn we expect to be.


“We feel really comfortable and confident we have the right person to lead that in Sammy as the coach and with Rob McCartney, who has done a fantastic job leading the football department, so we have had a big turnover, but we really feel we have the right people in place now to take us on that next journey.”

For Vandenberg, appointed as Hawthorn captain in the first three seasons of Clarkson’s tenure, it was an especially difficult decision.

“It was difficult in many senses,” he said.

“Certainly from my perspective playing under Clarko and having had a strong relationship with him over many years and seeing what he has been able to achieve.

“Everyone can see what Clarko has been able to do over the years.

“But from that perspective it sort of feels like it was never going to be a good time.

“We felt like we had invested in Sam. It was in the plan and there were no guarantees for him, but we were comfortable with the way the team was set up with Sam at Box Hill and Clarko coaching the senior team, but we needed to make some really strategic changes to the direction we wanted to take – and we needed absolute alignment in the way we did it.”





Snippet from PAYING OUT CLARKSON


VANDENBERG said not enough credit had been paid to Clarkson for his willingness to help the Hawks fully staff their football department despite the club paying out the final year of his deal.

The Herald Sun revealed on the day Clarkson departed that the Hawks would pay about $70,000 of the AFL’s football department luxury tax per year after handing Clarkson $450,000 in each of 2022 and 2023.

“That was a really important part of it all. You bring in a new coach, you cannot compromise your football department,” Vandenberg said.

“There are rules in place and at Hawthorn we are very strong around adhering to the rules with TPP (total player payments) and the soft cap, but this is a unique situation.

“So we were able to work with Clarko to ensure Sam had all the resources he needed to give himself the best opportunity for him to succeed, so there has been no compromises in the footy department, and, as a result we may have to pay some tax.”

So Clarkson was keen to ensure the club was fully staffed? “Correct,” Vandenberg said.

 

[Dipper]

More Richie

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

The article has spoken about :
WHY DID HAWTHORN MOVE ON FROM CLARKSON?
THE ILL-FATED SUCCESSION PLAN
SAM MITCHELL’S NATHAN BUCKLEY-ESQUE GROWTH
PAYING OUT CLARKSON
HAWKS CONFIRM PLAN TO BE BIG PLAYERS IN TRADE, DRAFT .... which we have seen in HS late yesterday


Snippet from WHY DID HAWTHORN MOVE ON FROM CLARKSON?

But it is clear the Hawks board that had given him everything – cap space, recruiting targets – since the end of the three-peat felt he had underperformed in that time.

“I think we have got to reflect a bit. It’s six years since we won a flag and we have been out in the wilderness for a while,” Vandenberg said.

“We showed a bit in 2016 and 2018 and got into the finals but we couldn’t fire a shot and then that starts to raise questions about our direction and our list and what does the future hold?

“That is the process we have been through, and the performances on the field are plain to see for everyone in the last couple of years.

“The standards we set for ourselves, both from a win-loss perspective but more the way we go about it. We want to get back to being the Hawthorn we were and the Hawthorn we expect to be.


“We feel really comfortable and confident we have the right person to lead that in Sammy as the coach and with Rob McCartney, who has done a fantastic job leading the football department, so we have had a big turnover, but we really feel we have the right people in place now to take us on that next journey.”

For Vandenberg, appointed as Hawthorn captain in the first three seasons of Clarkson’s tenure, it was an especially difficult decision.

“It was difficult in many senses,” he said.

“Certainly from my perspective playing under Clarko and having had a strong relationship with him over many years and seeing what he has been able to achieve.

“Everyone can see what Clarko has been able to do over the years.

“But from that perspective it sort of feels like it was never going to be a good time.

“We felt like we had invested in Sam. It was in the plan and there were no guarantees for him, but we were comfortable with the way the team was set up with Sam at Box Hill and Clarko coaching the senior team, but we needed to make some really strategic changes to the direction we wanted to take – and we needed absolute alignment in the way we did it.”





Snippet from PAYING OUT CLARKSON


VANDENBERG said not enough credit had been paid to Clarkson for his willingness to help the Hawks fully staff their football department despite the club paying out the final year of his deal.

The Herald Sun revealed on the day Clarkson departed that the Hawks would pay about $70,000 of the AFL’s football department luxury tax per year after handing Clarkson $450,000 in each of 2022 and 2023.

“That was a really important part of it all. You bring in a new coach, you cannot compromise your football department,” Vandenberg said.

“There are rules in place and at Hawthorn we are very strong around adhering to the rules with TPP (total player payments) and the soft cap, but this is a unique situation.

“So we were able to work with Clarko to ensure Sam had all the resources he needed to give himself the best opportunity for him to succeed, so there has been no compromises in the footy department, and, as a result we may have to pay some tax.”

So Clarkson was keen to ensure the club was fully staffed? “Correct,” Vandenberg said.

Well done Clarko and Vanders.

On SM-A326B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Carl Spackler]

Well, that article is interesting.

* Vandenberg led the decision, not Kennett
* The decision was a reasoned, considered view of the club's performance since 2016 and not driven by Kennett's emotional dislike of Clarkson
* Clarko blew up the transition plan, not Kennett
* Significant due diligence was done on the Mitchell decision, not a panic


Unless, of course, Vandenberg is also a Kennett lickspittle. That's still a possibility. Really the only hate option left.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Snippet from PAYING OUT CLARKSON


VANDENBERG said not enough credit had been paid to Clarkson for his willingness to help the Hawks fully staff their football department despite the club paying out the final year of his deal.

The Herald Sun revealed on the day Clarkson departed that the Hawks would pay about $70,000 of the AFL’s football department luxury tax per year after handing Clarkson $450,000 in each of 2022 and 2023.

“That was a really important part of it all. You bring in a new coach, you cannot compromise your football department,” Vandenberg said.

“There are rules in place and at Hawthorn we are very strong around adhering to the rules with TPP (total player payments) and the soft cap, but this is a unique situation.

“So we were able to work with Clarko to ensure Sam had all the resources he needed to give himself the best opportunity for him to succeed, so there has been no compromises in the footy department, and, as a result we may have to pay some tax.”

So Clarkson was keen to ensure the club was fully staffed? “Correct,” Vandenberg said.

Didn't Clarko personally pay for staff out of his own pocket when he first came to Hawthorn because the club couldn't afford the staff he wanted for the footy department? His decency is fairly well known, despite some people seemingly keen to make out as though he is satan.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Didn't Clarko personally pay for staff out of his own pocket when he first came to Hawthorn because the club couldn't afford the staff he wanted for the footy department? His decency is fairly well known, despite some people seemingly keen to make out as though he is satan.

He has paid for staff out of his own pocket throughout his entire tenure.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Well, that article is interesting.

* Vandenberg led the decision, not Kennett
* The decision was a reasoned, considered view of the club's performance since 2016 and not driven by Kennett's emotional dislike of Clarkson
* Clarko blew up the transition plan, not Kennett
* Significant due diligence was done on the Mitchell decision, not a panic


Unless, of course, Vandenberg is also a Kennett lickspittle. That's still a possibility. Really the only hate option left.

I like Richie a lot and there are some good things in there, but the post-event company line on what happened is just that. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

He has paid for staff out of his own pocket throughout his entire tenure.

It baffles me that the hatchets have come out so personally for Clarko. I am glad Sam is our coach now and I think we did need to take a different direction - that doesn't mean I enjoyed the protracted saga of the handover that wasn't a handover though. I just find it odd that there are some who seem intent to make this a personal crusade against a bloke who is seemingly a very decent human being, who gave a hell of a lot to our club, who rebuilt us from a spent force to an absolute titan of the competition again and will throw their lot in with a club president who has failed to deliver during two tenures as club president now.

It takes two to tango - and I am sure egos came to the forefront last year with the messy handover. I am not willing to apportion 100% of blame to any one party and I imagine once the dust settles that all parties would have preferred things to be handled better and have gotten to a more peaceful outcome. That's life - nothing is seamless. However to not expect people to expect a modicum of accountability from the most public and outspoken figure of our club's executive is just baffling.

As these people's politics clearly cloud their ability to objectively assess Kennett's performance, I would wager that the failings of the state's handling of the present pandemic, particularly in 2020, they are more than happy to apportion 100% on Daniel Andrews. Despite the fact that there are ministers, there is a bureaucracy and there is the behaviour of employment organisations and human nature/behaviour that can all be assigned at least some of the blame for the failings of 2020 - but rather than that kind of nuanced assessment I have zero doubt that the premier gets 98% of their blame and ire. That's all well and good, when you are at the top the buck should stop with you, be that in business, politics, sport etc. But I find it galling that those whose assessment of Kennett can't seem to overcome their clear political biases can't see the utter hypocrisy in that. To then ferment that complete lack of objective view into some kind of perverse character assassination of Clarko is bordering on deranged.

I caveat the above, to get in front of the partisan attack line once more, by saying that I think Andrews should have resigned last year due to the HQ failings, that I haven't voted for any major party (that includes the Greens) for close to two decades and by pointing out that if you scour my posting record when Kennett came back as president that I was quite vocal in my support of it and his actions in cleaning up the board post the Gaudry appointment and debacle. However, his performance since that time has not been up to scratch and I think as a paid up member of this club I am entitled to voice an objective view of the president. A view that I am yet to have any meaningful counter to other than 'I BeT YoU LiKe DaN AnDrEwS'. I expect a lot from those in charge - and when they don't deliver I expect them to take responsibility for that.

 

[flinchfree]

It baffles me that the hatchets have come out so personally for Clarko. I am glad Sam is our coach now and I think we did need to take a different direction - that doesn't mean I enjoyed the protracted saga of the handover that wasn't a handover though. I just find it odd that there are some who seem intent to make this a personal crusade against a bloke who is seemingly a very decent human being, who gave a hell of a lot to our club, who rebuilt us from a spent force to an absolute titan of the competition again and will throw their lot in with a club president who has failed to deliver during two tenures as club president now.

It takes two to tango - and I am sure egos came to the forefront last year with the messy handover. I am not willing to apportion 100% of blame to any one party and I imagine once the dust settles that all parties would have preferred things to be handled better and have gotten to a more peaceful outcome. That's life - nothing is seamless. However to not expect people to expect a modicum of accountability from the most public and outspoken figure of our club's executive is just baffling.

As these people's politics clearly cloud their ability to objectively assess Kennett's performance, I would wager that the failings of the state's handling of the present pandemic, particularly in 2020, they are more than happy to apportion 100% on Daniel Andrews. Despite the fact that there are ministers, there is a bureaucracy and there is the behaviour of employment organisations and human nature/behaviour that can all be assigned at least some of the blame for the failings of 2020 - but rather than that kind of nuanced assessment I have zero doubt that the premier gets 98% of their blame and ire. That's all well and good, when you are at the top the buck should stop with you, be that in business, politics, sport etc. But I find it galling that those whose assessment of Kennett can't seem to overcome their clear political biases can't see the utter hypocrisy in that. To then ferment that complete lack of objective view into some kind of perverse character assassination of Clarko is bordering on deranged.

I caveat the above, to get in front of the partisan attack line once more, by saying that I think Andrews should have resigned last year due to the HQ failings, that I haven't voted for any major party (that includes the Greens) for close to two decades and by pointing out that if you scour my posting record when Kennett came back as president that I was quite vocal in my support of it and his actions in cleaning up the board post the Gaudry appointment and debacle. However, his performance since that time has not been up to scratch and I think as a paid up member of this club I am entitled to voice an objective view of the president. A view that I am yet to have any meaningful counter to other than 'I BeT YoU LiKe DaN AnDrEwS'. I expect a lot from those in charge - and when they don't deliver I expect them to take responsibility for that.

For me, the issues I have with Clarko and his part in the sour airing of his departure are restricted to just that.
I didn't particularly like how he managed his role in that separation, what he said, and what IMO he encouraged to be leaked to media to paint Hawthorn management - and thus the greater Club - in poor light. The only thing that would make that behavior understandable would be if the Club had told him he wasn't getting paid out at all.
If that was indeed what he was told, I wish he'd just have said so in an opinion piece he himself had penned, and I could have then understood the petulance he displayed. As it was, he played the unjustly jilted wife even though for 12 months all signs had been pointing to his exit with his knowledge and assistance in planning.
Nothing more than that for me. If he had stage managed his exit so that it was more dignified and in house I'd have never been the slightest bothered.
Everything I read coming out of the Club was respectful and admiring of Al.

You've mentioned percentages. I have it 50/50 Clarko and the Club, not 95% the Club and Kennett.
Doesn't mean I don't want Kennett gone.
So, you know, the girl giff who says why can't it be both is where I'm at, and not merely to be lumped with those who are disciples of JK that have issue with Clarko in his final hours at HFC.

Regardless, I'm right with everyone else who'd like a special place of honor for the little General in our HOF/Ring of Honor/Major deities as what he's brought to Hawthorn is worthy of every accolade possible.
He's also gonna kill it with the Tassie franchise, you just know he will.

 

[Yardie]

I have it 50/50 Clarko and the Club

Does my head in that people think otherwise. And some are still trying to paint that picture after the Vandenberg article.