Coach Clarkson has left the building

[Mercy Seat]

Good read. But just one question

Good read. Just a question when you said "unfortunately i just think a very difficult situation was badly managed across the board and ended up blowing up in their faces"
How should it have been handled or what would you have done ?

Should have looked him in the eye and negotiated to end the contract for the end of 2020 from day 1. It’s what they wanted to do, and were privately telling journos they wanted to do (minus the payout), but didn’t have the guts to do. So they went in with a half measure of a succession plan, privately hoping either Clarko would be too proud and quit or another club would poach him. In terms of “good governance” by almost every metric, the club didn’t handle it well at all.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Good read. Just a question when you said "unfortunately i just think a very difficult situation was badly managed across the board and ended up blowing up in their faces"
How should it have been handled or what would you have done ?

Well I have both the benefit of hindsight as well as the disadvantage of not being a strategic manager with knowledge of both men's respective egos - I do wonder if it would have been better to keep the transition in-house as opposed to the large song and dance about it in the press. You could have sorted the transition scope and division of duties as was trying to occur and without the playing group becoming discontent and media speculation growing it may have got ironed out. You could have had Mitchell's preferred assistants come in this off-season in the knowledge of what was to come and Mitchell, McKenzie and Collins could still have been the main thrust of the list management decisions. You could then let the players and press known at the beginning of 2022 that it will be Clarko's final year where Sam will still manage Box Hill but co-ordinate heavily on game day and match committee decisions. This way you don't have players as concerned as they know they just have a season under the old coach before Mitchell takes over. Mitchell likely has the list as he wants it anyway and can start to introduce his gameplan. Clarko may not like the relegation of duties - however if his plan was always to have Mitchell take over what better way to teach him than to slowly delegate while also helping his son through his final year of schooling without having quite as much on his plate. Without the media being aware of the goings on and hopefully all relevant parties remaining confidential - the leaking and backgrounding that occurred this year and discontent in the playing group are possibly avoided. While openness and transparency are looked down upon - I think in this instance it is for the greatest good and being that the Hawthorn Football Club is not a government agency I really don't care if they keep some things to themselves so as to not create fodder for the press.

This may be absolutely naïve and have been leaked anyway as can happen in a large organisation. Could have all broken down much like it did because the power sharing was too hard. However the history of public coaching handovers isn't exactly rosy - except in cases where the coach is making it known they are moving on (Roos/Longmire) or the intention was there to stem short-term issues with a long-term handover being arranged (Roos/Goodwin and Worsfold/Rutten) so it was bold to think we would get it right.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Nefarious. Wow Ned. Impressive.

Sometimes it is fun to talk like you're a 1920s detective going after bootleggers.

 

[H00t]

Well I have both the benefit of hindsight as well as the disadvantage of not being a strategic manager with knowledge of both men's respective egos - I do wonder if it would have been better to keep the transition in-house as opposed to the large song and dance about it in the press. You could have sorted the transition scope and division of duties as was trying to occur and without the playing group becoming discontent and media speculation growing it may have got ironed out. You could have had Mitchell's preferred assistants come in this off-season in the knowledge of what was to come and Mitchell, McKenzie and Collins could still have been the main thrust of the list management decisions. You could then let the players and press known at the beginning of 2022 that it will be Clarko's final year where Sam will still manage Box Hill but co-ordinate heavily on game day and match committee decisions. This way you don't have players as concerned as they know they just have a season under the old coach before Mitchell takes over. Mitchell likely has the list as he wants it anyway and can start to introduce his gameplan. Clarko may not like the relegation of duties - however if his plan was always to have Mitchell take over what better way to teach him than to slowly delegate while also helping his son through his final year of schooling without having quite as much on his plate. Without the media being aware of the goings on and hopefully all relevant parties remaining confidential - the leaking and backgrounding that occurred this year and discontent in the playing group are possibly avoided. While openness and transparency are looked down upon - I think in this instance it is for the greatest good and being that the Hawthorn Football Club is not a government agency I really don't care if they keep some things to themselves so as to not create fodder for the press.

This may be absolutely naïve and have been leaked anyway as can happen in a large organisation. Could have all broken down much like it did because the power sharing was too hard. However the history of public coaching handovers isn't exactly rosy - except in cases where the coach is making it known they are moving on (Roos/Longmire) or the intention was there to stem short-term issues with a long-term handover being arranged (Roos/Goodwin and Worsfold/Rutten) so it was bold to think we would get it right.

I feel the succession plan was doomed to fail whether it was public knowledge or not. Assistant coaches arguing in front of players more than necessary.

Sorting out duties wasn’t working, even after them trying to fix it. Plus the whole place was leaking badly. It was bits of information at the start which is always appreciated as an outsider. But by the end the media was there waiting to announce Clarko was done at the end of 2021 without the need for the hawks to call a presser.

I think the succession plan was doomed to fail as succession plans generally do. They very rarely run smoothly, especially when the incumbent is being moved on rather than leaving of their own choice.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I feel the succession plan was doomed to fail whether it was public knowledge or not. Assistant coaches arguing in front of players more than necessary.

Sorting out duties wasn’t working, even after them trying to fix it. Plus the whole place was leaking badly. It was bits of information at the start which is always appreciated as an outsider. But by the end the media was there waiting to announce Clarko was done at the end of 2021 without the need for the hawks to call a presser.

I think the succession plan was doomed to fail as succession plans generally do. They very rarely run smoothly, especially when the incumbent is being moved on rather than leaving of their own choice.

You're probably right. And if doing things behind closed doors revealed it still wouldn't work then you could at least stage manage Clarko retiring early as opposed to the protracted media mess we entered into.

End of the day this is all said with hindsight - maybe there was no good way of doing it. As it stands, Jeff was the one announcing both of the press conferences during the debacle and even if it was a collaborative decision with the board - as a leader the buck stops with you. Along with the laundry list of issues I have with the current presidency reign - Kennett has to be apportioned at least some blame for this along with his failed strategy of 2 flags and 100,000 members by next year. He expects accountability for what he perceives as failed leadership in the present state government so it is only fair we demand the same accountability of him.

 

[H00t]

You're probably right. And if doing things behind closed doors revealed it still wouldn't work then you could at least stage manage Clarko retiring early as opposed to the protracted media mess we entered into.

End of the day this is all said with hindsight - maybe there was no good way of doing it. As it stands, Jeff was the one announcing both of the press conferences during the debacle and even if it was a collaborative decision with the board - as a leader the buck stops with you. Along with the laundry list of issues I have with the current presidency reign - Kennett has to be apportioned at least some blame for this along with his failed strategy of 2 flags and 100,000 members by next year. He expects accountability for what he perceives as failed leadership in the present state government so it is only fair we demand the same accountability of him.

I think the bolded but sums it up. Clarko is a hawks legend, there’s no good way to deal with such a scenario.

At least the clubs got it sorted now and it’s sights firmly planted on 2022

 

[Luv_our_club]

One of the lessons I wish Sam would take from Clarkson, which so far he hasn't, is to not talk so much in public and not individualise.

Sam talks too much when he talks, and he often individualises. . Some people might like it, but from my perspective it is not the Hawthorn way.

Clarkson, coming up under Kennedy, understood the Hawthorn way. He was brilliant at never explaining. If he had to talk, he found something to talk about that was bigger than his own thoughts on the players or the club. .

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

One of the lessons I wish Sam would take from Clarkson, which so far he hasn't, is to not talk so much in public and not individualise.

Sam talks too much when he talks, and he often individualises. . Some people might like it, but from my perspective it is not the Hawthorn way.

Clarkson, coming up under Kennedy, understood the Hawthorn way. He was brilliant at never explaining. If he had to talk, he found something to talk about that was bigger than his own thoughts on the players or the club. .

What public commentary has Sam done recently? Because I've missed it based on your thoughts that he talks too much in public about our players.

 

[Luv_our_club]

What public commentary has Sam done recently? Because I've missed it based on your thoughts that he talks too much in public about our players.

I don't really have the inclination to catch you up on Sam's media (as you request)... especially considering you say you don't know what he has said but also tell me I am wrong.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I don't really have the inclination to catch you up on Sam's media... especially considering you say you don;t know what he said but tell me I;m wrong.

What public commentary has Sam done recently? Because I've missed it based on your thoughts that he talks too much in public about our players.

 

[Luv_our_club]

What public commentary has Sam done recently? Because I've missed it based on your thoughts that he talks too much in public about our players.

Did you mean to post that twice?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Did you mean to post that twice?

Sure did, because it seems you misread it the first time, claiming that I said you were wrong.

What public commentary has Sam completed recently where has spoken publicly about individual players too much?

 

[Luv_our_club]

Sure did, because it seems you misread it the first time, claiming that I said you were wrong.

What public commentary has Sam completted recently where has spoken publicly about individual players too much?

Hello Strapping Young Lad, i hope you are having a good evening. It is past 11 and it seems it is pretty much the two of us on here. (It is the off season).

I see you disagree with my post (but you say you don't). Seems not credible to me, unless I can't read tone.

And not to mention the fact that for the last 12 months you pretty much disagree with everything I say on this board.

Anyway, i really don't have the personal or corporate capablities of Sam's media manager or the HFC media mangement team to let you know everything Sam has said. .

If you want to state declaratively that Sam' never individualises or never over-explains/over talks (compared to the tradition of Hawthorn coaches stemming from Kennedy) then i'd be happy to prove that declaration wrong.

But right now you are asking for me to provide a reference/bibliography of Sam's public statements, while you are simply making a rhetorical critque of my post. Actually, a crituqe that has veiled contempt for my view. So why would I go to the trouble
of providing you a reference list?

 

[theiaofseed]

But right now you are asking for me to provide a reference/bibliography of Sam's public statements, while you are simply making a rhetorical critque of my post. Actually, a crituqe that has veiled contempt for my view. So why would I go to the trouble
of providing you a reference list?

So you can't back up what you said?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hello Strapping Young Lad, i hope you are having a good evening. It is past 11 and it seems it is pretty much the two of us on here. (It is the off season).

I see you disagree with my post (but you say you don't). Seems not credible to me, unless I can't read tone.

And not to mention the fact that for the last 12 months you pretty much disagree with everything I say on this board.

Anyway, i really don't have the personal or corporate capablities of Sam's media manager or the HFC media mangement team to let you know everything Sam has said. .

If you want to state declaratively that Sam' never individualises or never over-explains/over talks (compared to the tradition of Hawthorn coaches stemming from Kennedy) then i'd be happy to prove that declaration wrong.

But right now you are asking for me to provide a reference/bibliography of Sam's public statements, while you are simply making a rhetorical critque of my post. Actually, a crituqe that has veiled contempt for my view. So why would I go to the trouble
of providing you a reference list?

6 paragraphs, and not a single one contains any evidence, link or direction to Sam “speaking publicly too much and about players individually”.

If he speaks publicly as often as you say he does, and individualizes players there should be links and articles?

 

[Luv_our_club]

So you can't back up what you said?

Well, i said there was a pattern. Do you want me to provide evidence of a pattern? Do you understand the amount of proof it requires to show evidence of a pattern?


And there is a Big difference between me saying I can't provide evidence, and me saying I don't have the time/want (which is what i said). But you know all that... you are being a little obtuse.

And also when there is so little motivation for me- the person asking me to back it up is not even willing to outright say I am wrong. Just,,, "prove it",

My god.. if Strapping Young Lad came back on every opinion on Bigfooty with "prove it"But as i said: You know that... but it is easer for you to say: "You can't back it up"

I don't think anyone is actually discussing what I said anymore.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Well, i said there was a pattern. Do you want me to provide evidence of a pattern? Do you understand the amount of proof it requires to show evidence of a pattern?


And there is a Big difference between me saying I can't provide evidence, and me saying I don't have the time/want (which is what i said). But you know all that... you are being a little obtuse.

And also when there is so little motivation for me- the person asking me to back it up is not even willing to outright say I am wrong. Just,,, "prove it",

My god.. if Strapping Young Lad came back on every opinion on Bigfooty with "prove it"But as i said: You know that... but it is easer for you to say: "You can't back it up"

I don't think anyone is actually discussing what I said anymore.

You’re full of it.

 

[Luv_our_club]

6 paragraphs, and not a single one contains any evidence, link or direction to Sam “speaking publicly too much and about players individually”.

If he speaks publicly as often as you say he does, and individualizes players there should be links and articles?

First, Strapping young Lad,

Tell me what you actually disagree about. You haven't actually done that. Then we can do something. Make a statement of your own that contradicts mine.

You can't just shout: "Prove it". It was my opinion. Give me your opinion and I will start to engage.


Secondly. it is now 12.35..... don't expect much more from me tonight.

 

[Luv_our_club]

You’re full of it.

Calling posters full of it.

Typical of Strapping Young Lad - the new era of Moderator on Bigfooty.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Luv_our_club I’ve listened to several long interviews Sam has done in the latter half of this year. He does have a very different way of speaking to Clarko - however he gives very clear and direct answers. In any interview I’ve heard I haven’t heard him single out players as you suggest.

In any instance - there is no set standard or template for how a Hawthorn coach should operate based on some envisaged way of doing things you believe should be done because it’s how John Kennedy got about. Nobody will ever mean more to the club than Kanga - but if you think that Kanga’s way of coaching would stack up almost 2 generations since he last did it then you’re just being silly. The mostly Gen Z crew that Mitchell will coach is a very different contingent to the baby boomers or Gen X contingent that Kennedy would have coached.

Mitchell’s job as coach of our football club is to develop the list, get results and steer us to the next flag. If he does that while dying his hair green and quoting his own slam poetry in pressers I genuinely don’t care - I want the results on field.

All that said - I believe your characterising of Mitchell is wrong. Also, you’ve laid the accusation so when called out on it it’s incumbent on you to defend it. Don’t act like a pork chop because you can’t back up one iota of your accusatory comments. There is this wonderful thing called Google - Sam’s interviews are likely easily found on there. Feel free to peruse and defend your position - or even provide quotes you remember him making as he so clearly has left an impression on you they should be at your disposal.

 

[MinerBoy]

Clarko had a way of speaking for a while without saying anything..... other than you have your Rougheads and your Hodges etc etc...

I'm kind of looking forward to Sam being a little more expansive. I'm sure he won't be giving away any inner sanctum secrets.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

From Sam’s article in The Age:


“We have started the last 12 months -CJ [Changkuoth Jiath

9

Changkuoth Jiath

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

2star

] has had significant up-lift in performance, Denver [Grainger-Barras] has come in, Will Day

12

Will Day

Age

23

Ht

191cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

2star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

D

17.5

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

3star

has come in and started to have an influence, Lachie Bramble, second half of his year, [Jack] Scrimshaw, second part of his year, were quite strong. Blake Hardwick

15

Blake Hardwick

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.1

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

264.7

4star

D

13.8

3star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.7

3star

MG

264.7

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.4

4star

has been solid.

“Then in the front end you have the hopeful emergence of Mitch Lewis and certainly this year it was Jacob Koschitzke who came from nowhere and had a strong season, so there is some upside in what we have been able to do with our youth over the last 12 months. We are not there yet.″⁣


“I am not sure (where he will play). He adds value wherever we are. The great thing about Big Boy is his versatility. He is a bit of a Mr Fixit. If you need help in the ruck he can go there, if you need help retaining ball in the forward line he can go there and he can play in the back end.

“Having the captain of your club spending time in all three areas of the ground is really beneficial and something every coach would like to have.”

Really not sure how the players will cope with this culture of Sam praising them. Honestly if this is your idea of poor coaching culture then good lord you’re a tough marker.

 

[MinerBoy]

From what I can gather he's pretty honest in his player assessments, for good or bad.

I look forward to his first AFL level Blighty moment.....

 

[OnTheRocks]

Calling posters full of it.

Typical of Strapping Young Lad - the new era of Moderator on Bigfooty.

It used to be 'dick' but now 'you're full of it'
I'll let you join the dots

 

[Strapping Young Lad]