Recommitted Clayton Oliver [UFA 2030] - clubs are interested, Melbourne willing for the right price

[Jeremias]

That is so far off the mark. You're talking about one of Melbourne’s greatest players of all time. and one of the most consistent midfielders the game has ever seen. He hasn't played a poor game in 8 years and now you think there's a chance he's not going to perform? Not many have his resume and he's got multiple AA's and BnF's left in him and possibly another AFLCA award.

EFA.

Sorry Danny but suggesting he’s one of the best to ever play the game is a joke.

One of the best Melbourne players sure. The game as a whole? No. And it’s not even close.

Where do you think he sits all time?

 

[Saab NLAW]

People don't change in a few days. It's a bit naive to think that a guy is going to be hating on the club and his treatment etc. and then a couple of days later everything peachy. More than likely, he's probably just said 'fine I'll stay but Selwyn Griffith can go and get stuffed'. I'd be surprised if discussions were positive.

Perhaps I should have used the words "more positive", which is a far more accurate description.

The first step in helping someone is that that person has to understand that they need help, I'm confident that this is the case in this situation.

 

[KiwiRoo]

That is so far off the mark. You're talking about one of the greatest players of all time. and one of the most consistent midfielders the game has ever seen. He hasn't played a poor game in 8 years and now you think there's a chance he's not going to perform? Not many have his resume and he's got multiple AA's and BnF's left in him and possibly another AFLCA award.

why would Melbourne even entertain getting rid of him then ?

 

[Jeremias]

why would Melbourne even entertain getting rid of him then ?

He’ll tell you they’re not. Not worth taking seriously.

 

[Saab NLAW]

EFA.

Sorry Danny but suggesting he’s one of the best to ever play the game is a joke.

One of the best Melbourne players sure. The game as a whole? No. And it’s not even close.

Where do you think he sits all time?

I agree with this, definitely an all time great Melbourne, but far too early to be considered an all time great of the game.

Of the current day players who do you think fits that category? Buddy, definitely, Dusty at his best maybe, other than that the cupboard is bare

 

[Saab NLAW]

why would Melbourne even entertain getting rid of him then ?

The club absolutely considered it, it all came down to how he responded to recent discussions. Now, it won't happen

 

[Jeremias]

I agree with this, definitely an all time great Melbourne, but far too early to be considered an all time great of the game.

Of the current day players who do you think fits that category? Buddy, definitely, Dusty at his best maybe, other than that the cupboard is bare

Buddy
Dusty
Pendlebury
Dangerfield
Hawkins

 

[danster168]

EFA.

Sorry Danny but suggesting he’s one of the best to ever play the game is a joke.

One of the best Melbourne players sure. The game as a whole? No. And it’s not even close.

Where do you think he sits all time?

if he's the greatest demon of all time, then he's one of the greatest players of all time. I think that's fair to say. His accomplishments at 26 are probably better than any player in the last 20 years. 3 AA's, 4 BnF's (playing alongside Petracca and Gawn) and 2 AFLCA's. The accolades speak for themselves. Tell me others who have done this, even 1 player. These aren't stats, these are accomplishments.

In terms of all time, assuming there's no injury setbacks, he'll be above Pendlebury and Selwood and alongside Bontempelli. No-one can match Oliver in the contest and he's going to obliterate most of the Pendlebury/Sam Mitchell/Selwood record numbers before he's 30.

 

[Saab NLAW]

Buddy
Dusty
Pendlebury
Dangerfield
Hawkins

Not sure how you can say that a player who has never kicked over 70 goals a season is an all time great. Nope on Hawkins. Also, a big no on Dangerfield, one the of the most overrated players going around, terrible disposal. Pendlebury is probably up there though.

So 3 or 4 of the current players, sounds about right

 

[KiwiRoo]

The club absolutely considered it, it all came down to how he responded to recent discussions. Now, it won't happen

maybe not
But you'd think because they did consider it that they're worried his future performances won't be as good as his previous performances and/or he's hes too big a disruption to the club

either way his value on the market would diminish significantly

 

[Saab NLAW]

maybe not
But you'd think because they did consider it that they're worried his future performances won't be as good as his previous performances and/or he's hes too big a disruption to the club

either way his value on the market would diminish significantly

Umm, who cares what you think his market value is. You are certainly allowed your opinion but it's irrelevant because Melbourne won't trade him this year.

 

[Jeremias]

if he's the greatest demon of all time, then he's one of the greatest players of all time. I think that's fair to say.

And that’s where the discussion probably ends.

If you genuinely believe that, no amount of reason or logic coming in the opposite direction is going to help.

Not sure how you can say that a player who has never kicked over 70 goals a season is an all time great. Nope on Hawkins. Also, a big no on Dangerfield, on the of the most overrated players going around, terrible disposal. Pendlebury is probably up there though.

So 3 or 4 of the current players, sounds about right

Was just off the top of my head.

If I’m ranking them…

Buddy
Pendlebury


Dusty



Hawkins

Dangerfield

Big gap between the top 3 and bottom 2 but they certainly deserve to be in the conversation.

Hawkins may never have kicked 70 in a season and he has fallen away the last few seasons, but what’s he produced, 12 seasons with 45+ goals?
That’s an unbelievable effort.

350 games and 800 goals isn’t anything to sneeze at.

 

[40porpoise]

Buddy
Dusty
Pendlebury
Dangerfield
Hawkins

One of those is not like the others...

 

[40porpoise]

Buddy
Dusty
Pendlebury
Dangerfield
Hawkins

One of those is not like the others...

 

[danster168]

And that’s where the discussion probably ends.

If you genuinely believe that, no amount of reason or logic coming in the opposite direction is going to help.



Was just off the top of my head.

If I’m ranking them…

Buddy
Pendlebury


Dusty



Hawkins

Dangerfield

Big gap between the top 3 and bottom 2 but they certainly deserve to be in the conversation.

Hawkins may never have kicked 70 in a season and he has fallen away the last few seasons, but what’s he produced, 12 seasons with 45+ goals?
That’s an unbelievable effort.

350 games and 800 goals isn’t anything to sneeze at.

It's pretty sound logic. Do you think the best player of one of the oldest footy clubs isn't going to compare to other clubs? That makes no sense. He'll be in the picture.

I think it depends how many players can go in the all time greats. For me, I think that number can be as many as 50. Guys like Sam Mitchell, Cyril, Buddy, Hodge etc. I include all of them.

Hell even at Geelong, I'd include Stevie Johnson as an all-time great.

For WCE, Dean Cox is one of the all-time greats as is Judd of course, but it could extend to Ben Cousins.

I think there's guys like Gary Ablett x 2, Buddy, Carey, Lockett which are all in the top 10 discussion. I don't have Clarry in this lot but he's in the next ring down alongside guys like Bont. Pendles is a gun, he's an all-time great but Clarry will probably smash his disposals record 5 years quicker. Completely different players though.

 

[Jeremias]

It's pretty sound logic. Do you think the best player of one of the oldest footy clubs isn't going to compare to other clubs? That makes no sense. He'll be in the picture.

No it isn't.

Do you consider Nathan Burke one of the all time greats?

No disrespect to Nathan who was a terrific footballer but he wouldn't be in the conversation. But using your logic as one of the best to ever play for one of the oldest clubs in the game, he'd have to be up there right?

You're right. It makes no sense.

 

[danster168]

No it isn't.

Do you consider Nathan Burke one of the all time greats?

No disrespect to Nathan who was a terrific footballer but he wouldn't be in the conversation. But using your logic as one of the best to ever play for one of the oldest clubs in the game, he'd have to be up there right?

You're right. It makes no sense.

But no-one is saying Nathan Burke is the best Saint of all time. Honestly, who is saying that? No-one. Riewoldt, Rob Harvey, Tony Lockett etc. are.

Pick any other club, tell me their Greasest ever player and tell me they aren't one of the all time greats. It's impossible.

 

[Jeremias]

But no-one is saying Nathan Burke is the best Saint of all time. Honestly, who is saying that? No-one. Riewoldt, Rob Harvey, Tony Lockett etc. are.

He's a legend of that footy club. He may not be the absolute best, but clearly he's in the upper echelon.

It's so strange to cut it off at the #1 best. But I guess when you're clutching at straws that's what happens.

 

[danster168]

He's a legend of that footy club. He may not be the absolute best, but clearly he's in the upper echelon.

It's so strange to cut it off at the #1 best. But I guess when you're clutching at straws that's what happens.

Why would you start just naming guns at each footy club. We're talking about Oliver being the best of all time, not just one of the best, or upper echelon or general terms like 'legend of the footy club'. We're not naming guys like Joel Corey here.

I noticed that you were unable to name any player that had the accolades of Oliver at the same age. To suggest he isn't on track to be one of the greatest players of all time is just blasphemy. Not only that, he is on track to be the best contested midfield of all time. His clearance numbers, his contested possessions alongside his accolades and awards all stack up. The 2 AFLCA awards speaks for itself too.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Why would you start just naming guns at each footy club. We're talking about Oliver being the best of all time, not just one of the best, or upper echelon or general terms like 'legend of the footy club'. We're not naming guys like Joel Corey here.

I noticed that you were unable to name any player that had the accolades of Oliver at the same age. To suggest he isn't on track to be one of the greatest players of all time is just blasphemy. Not only that, he is on track to be the best contested midfield of all time. His clearance numbers, his contested possessions alongside his accolades and awards all stack up. The 2 AFLCA awards speaks for itself too.

Pendlebury had 5 AA's, 3 B&Fs, 1 coaches award and a norm smith at the same age.

 

[KiwiRoo]

Umm, who cares what you think his market value is. You are certainly allowed your opinion but it's irrelevant because Melbourne won't trade him this year.

I don't think they will either. They wouldn't get what they'd want for him compared to what they would have a year ago.
Better for Melbourne to try and get him back to his best.

But if he doesn't improve his lifestyle/professionalism then its a serious chain around the clubs neck.

 

[Jeremias]

Why would you start just naming guns at each footy club. We're talking about Oliver being the best of all time, not just one of the best, or upper echelon or general terms like 'legend of the footy club'. We're not naming guys like Joel Corey here.

Because you literally said re: Oliver, "if he's the greatest demon of all time, then he's one of the greatest players of all time."

Why would that be true for a Melbourne player but not a St Kilda player?

Answer: it's not true. It's a lazy argument with a huge amount of holes in it.

I noticed that you were unable to name any player that had the accolades of Oliver at the same age.

I notice you didn't ask that question. Strange to think I'd answer something that wasn't asked.

The 2 AFLCA awards speaks for itself too.

Great achievement. But for context that award has only been around since 2003. It's an insult to say Oliver is better than some who haven't won any because their careers pre-dated the award itself.

 

[iDon]

He's still very immature, he's had a difficult year and made some really poor choices, however he wants to turn his life around. Since the hilariously bad exit meeting there's been more positive discussions.

He is what 26? That's not immature please.

 

[Saab NLAW]

I don't think they will either. They wouldn't get what they'd want for him compared to what they would have a year ago.
Better for Melbourne to try and get him back to his best.

But if he doesn't improve his lifestyle/professionalism then its a serious chain around the clubs neck.

I agree with the last bit, however there were reasons why he went off the rails more this year. He's still quite immature and struggled to cope with some stuff, but that's not the reasons you dumb someone. I think the club has handled his situation quite well, they've gone hard when he's needed to hear it but also given him a cuddle when required.

 

[Saab NLAW]

He is what 26? That's not immature please.

Do you know him?