Opinion Colin Sylvia

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Cobbler said:
Twice he handballed to nobody. I mean literally nobody. Just panicked handballs.
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TBH this was the only thing that concerned me about his performance today. As a new player I think he's still finding learning what the correct "team" thing to do is in those goal scoring situations you mentioned. Most likely after assuming he was doing the right thing passing to Pav, the line coach or Pav himself said to back himself in next time if he's open. Next time he's open to goal he gets run down from an inspired chase by Gwilt. Happens at least once a week in a variety of forms where sometimes they score, cue crowd, miss cue commentators scorn, but I'd rather that he does back himself in to kick those kind of goals.

Those handballs though were concerning. Panic is probably a fair enough way to describe it and as I've discussed with you before, the thing that's always made me consider that he's worth sticking with is that his disposal has always looked a class above. Well weighted handballs to runners, fast hands in traffic, very good disposal by foot under pressure and delivering in to the 50 with the sort of precision we normally associate with Walters, it's just that we didn't see enough of it. But yeah that concerned me.

I didn't have him bottom 4 even on a relative to regular performance basis so we differ there, but look I've always said that he needs to get better. I was never stating that he's a lock for the 22 start of the year or that we need him in the team. I'm just of the opinion that he will improve us dramatically if it clicks and that hopefully that wasn't too far away as there were some good signs. Today was a massive back step but he wasn't alone so I'm not writing it off yet.
 
smokingjacket said:
TBH this was the only thing that concerned me about his performance today. As a new player I think he's still finding learning what the correct "team" thing to do is in those goal scoring situations you mentioned. Most likely after assuming he was doing the right thing passing to Pav, the line coach or Pav himself said to back himself in next time if he's open. Next time he's open to goal he gets run down from an inspired chase by Gwilt. Happens at least once a week in a variety of forms where sometimes they score, cue crowd, miss cue commentators scorn, but I'd rather that he does back himself in to kick those kind of goals.

Those handballs though were concerning. Panic is probably a fair enough way to describe it and as I've discussed with you before, the thing that's always made me consider that he's worth sticking with is that his disposal has always looked a class above. Well weighted handballs to runners, fast hands in traffic, very good disposal by foot under pressure and delivering in to the 50 with the sort of precision we normally associate with Walters, it's just that we didn't see enough of it. But yeah that concerned me.

I didn't have him bottom 4 even on a relative to regular performance basis so we differ there, but look I've always said that he needs to get better. I was never stating that he's a lock for the 22 start of the year or that we need him in the team. I'm just of the opinion that he will improve us dramatically if it clicks and that hopefully that wasn't too far away as there were some good signs. Today was a massive back step but he wasn't alone so I'm not writing it off yet.
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I'd have to disagree with much of what you say. He is an experienced AFL players, not some young kid. He shouldn't need to be told to take the shot himself, he should know he can and should drill the bloody thing. It's a 40m kick with no pressure!

The 'inspired' run down. You seriously need to take the glasses off and watch that again. He was slow, in his mind and also in his execution. It wasn't an 'inspired' run down. He coasted from the moment he was running onto it. Also backing himself in? There were players open through the middle, that's when you do center it, it was just pathetic.

The handballs were alarming, no doubt. We have spoken about those. BUT the one for me that absolutely told me this guy is done, was when he had a free kick or had taken a mark (cant remember exactly) but he went back off the mark, couldn't make up his mind... jogged around and ran into a tackle, he handballed it off, but my golly. So here you have an experienced player with time to make a decision and he runs himself into trouble and handballs it off!

His chases are pathetic.

Your right about not being bottom 4 on a relative to regular performance basis. He has been poor since starting, so by that scale he played to his norm. If almost everyone else was down, he was actually on par with his recent terrible standard, making him best player on the ground relative to regular performance.

Terrible scale to use. Let's just face facts and agree he was in the worst 4 on the ground irrespective of position or any other scale you want to use.

If there are even 3 changes next week that improve our side, then he goes.
 
Lastly, only 5 players total out of the 44 didn't give a 1% recorded effort. One of those blokes got knocked out in the first few minutes. One of them was obviously Sylvia.

Only Morabito and Griffin had less touches, with both those players have less time on the ground.

He took the least amount of marks in 1.

He had 3 kicks. One out on the full, one off the side of his boot to a disadvantage Pav... can't remember the other one but pretty sure it wasn't a lazer 55m bullet onto someones chest. HAHAHA 3 kicks and I remember 2 because they were fluffed.

4 handballs. One inside 50m to no one. One when he should've kicked and allowed himself to get tackled and had to handball.

Yowsers, how are we defending this?
 

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smokingjacket said:
:eek: yeah that's not pretty...someone help me out here I'm getting an absolutely bake hahaha
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I'll help you out.

I also want him to do well. Think he does have something about him and from watching him at Melbourne. That said he seems so far off it right now, that he shouldn't be getting games on 'hope'.

It's almost as if Ross Lyon himself said let's get this guy, it hasn't worked and now he's being stubborn.

Our supporters are also now allowing it.

Answer me this. Does he get another game if Hill, Ballas and Sandilands come back in?

Griffin is our first dropped. Then who do you have as next out? Because Ballas and Hill will be back and thats the minimum.
 
Cobbler said:
He really hasn't done a thing since getting into the side. Not as if today was the exception.

When he got subbed in his first game he had 3 touches and people were saying he did ok. He had over 40 minutes in that game and as far as I'm concerned your sub should have more of an impact in whatever position they play. He got a full game for the following 5 weeks and in 4 of those we were big winner and he contributed little. 1 goal! I mean are you serious?

He laid 2 tackles today, to take his tally to 13 for the season. He is giving us nothing.

The play that summed up where he's at was he had 10m on his opponent running onto a loose ball and into 50m. He got chased down, kicked out on the full and had players streaming into space. Bloody useless. If it was just that one act, you could be forgiven.

Twice he handballed to nobody. I mean literally nobody. Just panicked handballs.

Finally if that wasn't enough he unselfishly chipped a ball (off the side of his foot) to put Pavlich deep in the pocket, when again he was clear, 40m out and running into goal.

Was he the worst today? No. Bottom 3-4 probably. Has he stored any credit points over the last 5 or so weeks? You got to be kidding me, hasn't done a thing.

He has to be gone, should be gone and either needs a big preseason or joins the group of Freo recruiting failures.

Am I being harsh? Perhaps, but if you come over on a 3 year deal with expectations you either deliver or GTFO.
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Good post :thumbsu:. Sylvia has been disgraceful in whatever way you look at it. Drop him, if he plays crap in the WAFL then we know how much this really means to him.
 
Cobbler said:
I'll help you out.

I also want him to do well. Think he does have something about him and from watching him at Melbourne. That said he seems so far off it right now, that he shouldn't be getting games on 'hope'.
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Appreciate it haha. Alright well I'll say this and be done with defending he who is not worthy. As I've mentioned I thought that he showed the potential to build on some middling but promising performances so far. You've demonstrated very well, (too well) that yeah he was truly terrible in this game but I still hold to my view that his previous performances had shown enough to keep the experiment going because the upside is a very dynamic forward line. So then in the context of the game today and his performance do I think that he should be completely disregarded for having a shocker in a game that maybe two players would get a pass mark for? No. Does he deserve to be dropped on form? Probably. See that I haven't been racing to the changes thread saying he'll definitely stay, he could easily be dropped if we have those ins available, but at the same time I, unlike yourself maybe, think that he would be a better option than Taberner for instance if played as a medium marking forward with Pav, Ballas and Mayne for support. That looks pretty strong to me. When Walters gets back different story.

Cobbler said:
It's almost as if Ross Lyon himself said let's get this guy, it hasn't worked and now he's being stubborn.

Our supporters are also now allowing it.
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I'm not sure that the supporters are allowing it all. You see the main reason why I even adopted this now ridiculous contrarian position on this thread is that a lot of the people who've been calling for him to be dropped have been doing it after he's actually played alright. They look at the stats and say 13 disposals - not good enough - but the quality of the disposals have normally been pretty good. Not to mention it's very easy to point the finger at the new guy. Not many people in any of reviews have been honest enough to say that some favourites and stars were the main problem today. Mundy, Fyfe, Crowley, McPharlin, Johnson, Neale, Barlow, Pearce.D these guys all had shockers and having a thread dedicated to roasting just Sylvia after such a loss was a copout.

Cobbler said:
Answer me this. Does he get another game if Hill, Ballas and Sandilands come back in?

Griffin is our first dropped. Then who do you have as next out? Because Ballas and Hill will be back and thats the minimum.
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In short at this stage I have him above Taberner and Morabito (just). Ideally all three should find a bit of touch again and then we reassess. Could also be that Mora takes Mzungu's spot as a deep mid and Sylvia makes way but Mora didn't look up to it today, tactically and physically and I didn't place a huge emphasis on his junk time stats against GWS as encouraging as it was.
 
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We are coming into finals and the only question (and it applies to every player) is "are we better with you in it than another player?".

Honestly i thought he would have emphatically answered that in the games and time he has been given as a resounding "Yes", but instead the question is still dangling.
 
gungho said:
To me the most important aspect of this thread is not Colin Sylvia, who occassionaly does some nice things, but his competition for the half/forward role. Within 2 minutes of Matt De Boer being on the ground, he ran full steam at a St Kilda player and laid a great tackle. Unfortunately for Colin, he has not shown that sort of intent.
It is a brutal game at this level, and if you can not put your body on the line, then unfortunately you must make way for another who can.
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De Boer also played in the midfield. It's ridiculous to compare him to Sylvia when they are playing completely different roles.

In comparison, Morabito had 15 possessions in less than a half last week. This week he had 4 possessions in a full game. The difference is not because he suddenly forgot how to play, it's that it's a shedload harder to get touches in our forward line at the best of times, let alone when we are getting pumped by 10 goals.

Give Sylvia a run in the middle and if he still does nothing then you have a case. But at the moment he's just being used as a scapegoat because using new recruits as scapegoats is what Fremantle supporters have always done.
 

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The conclusion I draw is that he is a better player in a less disciplined side. In a side where he can be unaccountable, he will have the odd game where the ball bounces right for him and will post good numbers disposal and goal wise.

Rob him of that ability to cheat and freewheel and he has minimal talent.
 
pokerspiv said:
De Boer also played in the midfield. It's ridiculous to compare him to Sylvia when they are playing completely different roles.

In comparison, Morabito had 15 possessions in less than a half last week. This week he had 4 possessions in a full game. The difference is not because he suddenly forgot how to play, it's that it's a shedload harder to get touches in our forward line at the best of times, let alone when we are getting pumped by 10 goals.

Give Sylvia a run in the middle and if he still does nothing then you have a case. But at the moment he's just being used as a scapegoat because using new recruits as scapegoats is what Fremantle supporters have always done.
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salim malik , please refresh my memory ... how did sylvia go in the midfield for peel?
 
Doubt he will play again this year. He has been given a good block of relatively easy games to show something and hasnt been up to it. I think we were hoping for a Stewart Dew/Brian Lake/Nick Davis type wildcard come finals time and Col just couldnt deliver.

Give him the Nic Suban/Clancee Pearce/Ryan Crowley treatment. Tell him to go away over the off season and decide how much he really wants it. He needs to come back lighter and fitter and hopefully more motivated.

I still hold a glimmer of hope for next year.
 
I'm not even sure how he got a game for us in the first place. I can see why we picked him up, because he's had talent untapped by Melbourne, but he's been playing in a terrible side for so long it's like he's forgotten how to play, or just doesn't care anymore.

Drop him, de-list him, whatever. All he does is take up a spot in our 22, when I'd rather we play some youngster that'll actually care about his position in the side.
 
Allikat said:
I'm not even sure how he got a game for us in the first place. I can see why we picked him up, because he's had talent untapped by Melbourne, but he's been playing in a terrible side for so long it's like he's forgotten how to play, or just doesn't care anymore.

Drop him, de-list him, whatever. All he does is take up a spot in our 22, when I'd rather we play some youngster that'll actually care about his position in the side.
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Agree.

Sheridan or Crozier provided much more when they were given a run of games to show something. They also have upside.

Really disappointed in Morabito's game. He was generally unsighted and to only have 4 touches is not great. There was one play where he did a one two with Barlow on our 50m line in the first quarter and just didn't seem to have the energy to get up. I actually thought he had done something he was so lame looking. Anyone else recall this?

I strongly believe they upped their training load, had a few underdone and we were missing class plus Saints just got on a roll. SOmeone mentioned it earlier but it was the perfect storm. When Rhys Stanley is getting a few meters on his opponent and slotting goals mid post high from 55m out you just know it's not going to be your day.
 
I am a fan of Col but he was disappointing yesterday. I agree that he is probably struggling with our structured style and isn't suited to the manic pressure role at half forward.
His speed is an issue clearly and obviously fitness as well so I think Deboer gets a gig in front of him next week when Ballas is back.

Haven't written him off completely as it took D Pearce and the rest of the boys at least half a season to understand the structures and game plan and get to the required fitness levels.

I don't think Col was our worst yesterday but probably bottom 5 with Mora, Tabs, Griff and probably Dawson/MJ/Luke
 

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Opinion Colin Sylvia

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