List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

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Yappie dribbles said:
Thought so


I Was like no way would he want to leave a top of ladder side
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Mitch Cleary (along with others, Tom Browne, etc) have been the victim of fake Twitter accounts posting bs stories.

No way Jack would be requesting a trade to Richmond.

He's pushing to play in a Prelim on Friday & hopefully GF the following week..
 

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KinderSmock said:
How else am I going to hear from the second best golfer on earth (the best being Kim Jong-Il who scored 11 aces after picking up a club for the first time at the Pyongyang Golf Course) and get my AFL footy fix?
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You follow Scotty Scheffler? Thatā€™s just weird. šŸ¤£


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Gone Critical said:
Because clubs are prepared to give 2nd chances sometimes in the hope they get a soldier on the cheap.

Unfortunately for Fin he has had a slow career start and is up against it a bit. He is a chance to become a soldier in a best 22 but probably needs to start playing a lot next year. Chance of becoming a starting main mid in a better class AFL team is almost gone.
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Too premature and absolute to make that call. It's a tough team to crack atm.
 
Babylove said:
Article this morning on the Fox Sports website. Iā€™ve posted the link if you want to see the state of play at other clubs.

View attachment 1807612
www.foxsports.com.au

Mass moves after finals exits as big player emerges: Mega 18-club trade state of play

Silly season set to explode as one team eyes trade frenzy: Mega 18-club trade state of play
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au
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I love that we are lookin to add some pace around the midfield , takes our game plan to another level.

Im so keen on Khamis despite seeing limited vision of him. Remember he kicked a few against us in the past. Looks a good athlete
 
OniAu said:
I love that we are lookin to add some pace around the midfield , takes our game plan to another level.

Im so keen on Khamis despite seeing limited vision of him. Remember he kicked a few against us in the past. Looks a good athlete
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If we got Khamis and Hollands and managed to keep our first and second we would be killing it. Both in our system would be amazing.
 

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KinderSmock said:
I disagree here. If Macrae wanted to leave the Pies, he wouldn't be playing footy at a non-AFL club in 2024. I think fans here are quick to write off his ability or that he's not playing. Macrae is the sort of player who, if he was on another list, people would be championing to trade in. Cherry picking Wills as an example does not reflect the current match committee or reflect the injuries we had at the time. Our midfield has enough mature bodies keeping Macrae out. Next season, I expect Macrae to play early and not look back.
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Quicky said:
Too premature and absolute to make that call. It's a tough team to crack atm.
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Quicky I dont want to be absolute but believe if you look at the typical progression of the good mids Fin is up against it.

KinderSmock I agree you get a better read by not cherry picking but rather look at the stats more fully. I have looked at them a lot and it all says when it comes to mids the good ones play a lot of footy early even if they are in stacked midfields. Yo u are right about playing a lot next year in that almost no mids wait any longer than that. The trouble for him is he is not looking like pushing past any of the 23 just yet and the likes of Allen, Carmichael, Reef, Harrison, Draper et al are in that same battle. Will be tough for him.

Just out of interest I looked at the career starts of the approx main 8 mids of all the finals sides of 23. Whats clear is without fail the top 4 in each team play a lot early, as do most of the rest. So no best 4 starting mids in this years top 8 teams didn't play a lot of footy early.

There are about 4 of 32 in the secondary mids who have had a career start near or as slow as Fin re games played. All those 4 played a lot more in their 4th season. Fin has to do that for mine. Jaicos and Crisp are the 2 players in the 64 who didnt play a lot early who have become serious mids. They both played more than Fin has however.

Fin pick nineteen, games 1st 3 seasons 9,2,1

Collingwood (games played 1st 4 seasons)

Pendles, pick five, 9,23,23,21
Sidey , ten, 11,25,25,24
Adams, thirteen, 15,16,12,18
Mitchell, twenty one, 0,14,6,19
Jordy, five, 16,20,14,21
Jaicos, Fifty three, 2,10,5,18
Naicos, four, 25,20
Crisp, rookie, 10,2,6,22

Brisbane

Neale, fifty eight, 11,12,23,24
McCluggage, three, 18,22,23,19
Dunkley, twenty five, 17,7,19,23
Ashcroft, two, 18

AhChee, eight, 16,14,14,1
Berry , seventeen, 16,21,20,17
Robertson, twenty two, 1,16, 8,14
Bailey, fifteen, 12,15,19,24

Port

Boak, five, 14,17,18,20
Butters, twelve, 19,17,12,20
Rozee, five, 22,16,21,22
Wines, seven, 24,25,13,22

Horne Francis, one, 11,24
Drew, thirty three, 0,0,10,0
Duursma, eighteen, 20,15,11,11
Bonner, thirty seven, 1,3,19,19

Melbourne

Petracca, two, 0,17,22,24
Oliver, five, 13,22,25,22
Viney, twenty six, 13,20,16,21
Brayshaw, three, 21,10,5,22

Hunter, forty five, 9,14,13,26
Langdon, fifty four, 2,13,10, 21
Harmes, rookie, 0,8,19,17
Sparrow, twenty seven, 2,5,21,23

Carlton

Cripps, thirteen, 3,20,21,15
Walsh, one, 22,17,22,20
Cerra, five, 21,20,17,18
Doherty, twelve, 0,13,16,19

Hewett, thirty two, 0,0,24,24
Cottrell, twenty three, 0,5,14,18
Acres, nineteen, 3,7,16,18
O'Brien, rookie, 18,17,1,5

St Kilda

Steele, twenty four, 7,10,20,21
Hill, thirty three, 5,24,22,24
Clarke, seven, 15,14,18,13
Crouch, rookie, 14,11,0,16

Ross, twenty five, 1,13,13,10
Jones, fifteen, 4,11,16,23
Wood, forty one, 0,1,7,8
Byrnes, fifty one, 1,16,11,20

GWS

Kelly, two, 18,18,24,24
Green, ten,6,18,21,21
Coniglio, two, 12,18,14,8
Ward, nineteen, 6,22,10,22

Callaghan, three, 5,20
Angwin , eighteen, 0,1,15
Daniels, twenty seven, 7,26,16,13
Bedford, seventy five, 0,2,0,16

Sydney

Parker, forty, 13,19,25,25
Warner, thirty nine, 2,13,24,21
Gulden, thirty two***, 18,25,24
Mills, three, 22,24,9,22

Rowbottom, twenty five, 12,16,17,24
Stephens, five, 8,7,15,13
Campbell, five, 8,17,23
McInerney, forty four, 1,9,21,22

Summary

The very good mids play a lot of footy early without exception
The second string mids generally do also with occasional exceptions
Top 10 draft picks strongly represented in this group of 64, 24 of them
Whether you are an early pick or late, if you end up a good mid, you play a lot early ( there are just more high draft picks that end in that group)
A tough midfield to break into is a fallacy for good young mids, they play early regardless cause they are better that the bottom end of even very good teams
Fin played less afl footy in year 2 and 3 than any of these players bar Bedford.
Realistic best senario for Fin based on this data is to become a soldier midfielder
 
thommo_legend said:
Stop pretending you have sources, you're a fraud
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Settle.

Serious question....why go so hard at the poster?

I for one like that we have people who post what they 'know'.
Whether its real or not is up to me to decide.

But for me, the board is better with the conjecture and conversation this generates.

Imagine if no one posted their ITK info for fear of been lambasted over the outcome months down the track.
How boring would the place be?

If you don't agree with the content, then fine.
Use ignore if you don't like what a poster posts.

But no need to be so aggressive and personal at the poster.
 
TheVillageIdiot7 said:
Settle.

Serious question....why go so hard at the poster?

I for one like that we have people who post what they 'know'.
Whether its real or not is up to me to decide.

But for me, the board is better with the conjecture and conversation this generates.

Imagine if no one posted their ITK info for fear of been lambasted over the outcome months down the track.
How boring would the place be?

If you don't agree with the content, then fine.
Use ignore if you don't like what a poster posts.

But no need to be so aggressive and personal at the poster.
Click to expand...
Heā€™s the best. Just ask him.
 
TheVillageIdiot7 said:
Settle.

Serious question....why go so hard at the poster?

I for one like that we have people who post what they 'know'.
Whether its real or not is up to me to decide.

But for me, the board is better with the conjecture and conversation this generates.

Imagine if no one posted their ITK info for fear of been lambasted over the outcome months down the track.
How boring would the place be?

If you don't agree with the content, then fine.
Use ignore if you don't like what a poster posts.

But no need to be so aggressive and personal at the poster.
Click to expand...
:sparklingheart:
 
TheVillageIdiot7 said:
I certainly didnā€™t say I wasnā€™t fully aware of their posting history.

Just that I donā€™t get the incessant need to make it personal.
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Have you seen how he reacts to fellow posters who doubt his scoops? He gets very angry and rude because the only reason he is doing it is for attention. Deserves to be ribbed. I actually enjoy his stuff for a laugh but i don't agree his input adds to the discussion. It actually muddies the waters because he legit is making things up or reposting stuff that has already been reported that he takes credit for and brags about. It's not helpful.
 
TakingThePies said:
Can anyone post the Graham Wright article. in HeraldSun?
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Graham Wright arrived at Collingwood on a budget.
The books were a mess and the club was in something of a tailspin when the Magpies finally convinced the legendary recruiter and footy boss to come across from Hawthorn.

At Waverley, Wright helped pull off moves for Jack Gunston, David Hale, Brian Lake, Josh Gibson and James Frawley as part of the Hawksā€™ golden era, helping rewrite the AFLā€™s recruiting manual alongside the Sydney Swans with mature-age recruits.

But after riding shotgun alongside Hawthorn mastermind Alastair Clarkson for 14 years in various roles, friends say Wright was a little worn out by the Hawks environment.

He was ready for a fresh footy challenge when he joined Collingwood in February 2021, days after the Herald Sun revealed details of the clubā€™s ā€˜Do Betterā€™ report.

The Magpies had hit a list management iceberg, and needed help.

But in less than two years of navigating one of the most blown-up salary caps in the league at Collingwood, one of the gameā€™s most influential footy figures has seemingly done it again.

Wright has helped take Collingwood from second bottom in 2021 to outright flag favourite in 2023 using pages from his old Hawthorn recruiting manual.

He also hand-picked the coach, the empathetic and connected Craig McRae, convinced he was exactly the right man and style of coach to lead the biggest club in the game.

He was an expert communicator, McRae, a development specialist and people person, who beat Adam Kingsley, Jaymie Graham and Michael Voss for the gig.

But the list moves not only had a familiar touch of genius from Wright, they were done on the cheap.

Under Wright, 55, the Magpies have fixed the salary cap nightmare, added to the list, and rocketed up the ladder.

RIGHT PLACE, WRIGHT TIME​

Graham Wrightā€™s big Magpies calls since 2021
IN
Coach: Craig McRae
Patrick Lipinski (WB)
Nathan Kreuger (Geel)
Billy Frampton (Adel)
Bobby Hill (GWS)
Daniel McStay (BL)
Tom Mitchell (Haw)
Nick Daicos (Father-son)
Ed Allen (Draft)

KEPT
Jordon De Goey
Darcy Moore
Scott Pendlebury

OUT
Coach: Nathan Buckley
Brodie Grundy (Melb)


Over the past two years, Collingwood has brought in Patrick Lipinski (Western Bulldogs), Nathan Kreuger (Geelong), Billy Frampton (Adelaide), Bobby Hill (GWS Giants), Daniel McStay (Brisbane), and Tom Mitchell (Hawthorn), as well as father-son superstar Nick Daicos and fellow first-round pick Ed Allen.

And the most they have given up for any of those mature-age players is a future second-rounder for Hill.

Clearly, the black and white list rejuvenation has some brown and gold in it.

ā€œThere is a bit of Hawthorn in what they have done over the past two years, but there is a difference in the sense they have not traded out early picks to do it,ā€ a club official said.

ā€œAnd they have been really restricted in how much they can pay.

ā€œThat is the most impressive part. The economy of it all.

ā€œBut Wrighty is a man who knows what he is doing.

ā€œHe is a good footy boss, no doubt, but he is an outstanding recruiter. That is his greatest strength.

ā€œHe knows talent.

ā€œBut he wonā€™t like this story.ā€


It has been often said Collingwood has housed some of the biggest names, and biggest egos in the game, over the journey. And at times, there have been fiery clashes. Noses out of joint.

Headlines have been a constant at Collingwood.

But Wright operates largely in stealth. In the backrooms. Heā€™s the bloke walking two steps behind everyone else in all the photos. Interviews are typically short. And rare.

It has been said journalists are more likely to win Powerball than get him for a few minutes on the phone about a player contract or injury.

He might be footyā€™s most calm and composed individual in a club environment known for its intensity and spotlight.

ā€œHeā€™s a good fella,ā€ said forward Beau McCreery.

ā€œYou donā€™t get too much of a laugh or smile out of him. You always have a crack at it, though.

ā€œSo he is a pretty serious fella, but I think he has got to be.ā€

And when the temperature rises, Wrightā€™s level-headedness shines.

ā€œHe is always very level, very cool in any crisis,ā€ said the former colleague.

The hard-nosed Tasmanian product, who finished second in the 1990 Brownlow Medal amid an excellent 201-game career at Collingwood, operates with a simple nod most of the time, in the public arena.

But the humble ways are another considerable strength, said a colleague.

He is universally respected across the industry, which is in part why Collingwood tried to poach him from Hawthorn for the best part of a decade.

Nathan Buckley, in particular, pushed hard for him.

ā€œHe has served Hawthorn and Collingwood wonderfully well, but what people might not realise is that clubs love to deal with him, because he doesnā€™t stuff around,ā€ a footy figure said on the condition of anonymity.

ā€œHe is fair, and you look back through all the deals, heā€™s got them done.

ā€œSo clubs and the managers like to work with him.ā€

And it hasnā€™t always been easy, either.

The club also re-signed Jordan De Goey in the face of a more lucrative offer from St Kilda, kept captain and star key defender Darcy Moore and warded off league-wide interest for Scott Pendlebury as part of a player-coach arrangement.

Again, when the speculation around De Goey hit fever pitch, and St Kilda had the game breaking midfielder on the hook, it is said that Wright never got jumpy.

He is fair and considered.

Buckley was one of the greatest figures in the clubā€™s history, and Wright made sure he received the respectful departure he deserved when his time came to depart.

But the key to Collingwoodā€™s list reworking over the past 24 months was the bold call to trade out Brodie Grundy against the ruckmanā€™s wishes, following Adam Treloar and Jaidyn Stephenson out the door.

Those exits prompted stinging criticism of Collingwood at the time. Could the players trust the Magpies? What is a contract worth at the club? What do the departures do to the culture?

It is unclear if Treloar has since spoken to Buckley. Relationships broke.

Moore and Grundy are best mates.

But Wright was not a believer in paying ruckmen huge salaries, and publicly said the club wanted to go in ā€œa different directionā€.

While the Pies are still chipping in about $200,000 of Grundyā€™s salary at Melbourne, that call allowed the club to secure McStay and, in part, Hill.

The two forwards delivered in different ways in the qualifying final win over Melbourne, with the speedster and mobile marking forward combining for five goals.

What Wright wanted to do was pay less in the ruck for more competitiveness, mobility, tackle pressure, speed and class in the forward line.

The Magpies had quality in the engine room, but the club needed to bolster its scoring power, having notched 100 points only once in 2020-21.

It fit in with McRaeā€™s game plan to take risks, move quickly, go forward and direct where possible, and play with a certain freedom and flair. Less mucking around.

But to pull it all together you need players who can compete in the front half, and McStay and Brody Mihocek are workhorses, McCreery is a sledgehammer, Hill is hard to catch and sharp like a razor, and Frampton helped replace departed veteran Jordan Roughead down back.

Frampton was a crucial, no-frills addition, again, for not much; a third-round pick.

Lipinski added depth and more wheels in the midfield, Mitchell addressed a considerable clearance weakness and Nick and Josh Daicos are signed for life, already. Theyā€™re the future.

The one they wanted to keep, Ollie Henry, returned home to Geelong to be closer to family. He snagged 41 goals this year in a decent third AFL season.
But even that move nearly fell over on the second-last day of the trade period when Cats officials Andrew Mackie and Simon Lloyd went to the Henry family household to say the deal may yet not go through as Collingwood wanted to keep him.

Wright led the bold call to trade-out Grundy, despite ironically showing some minor interest in him (on a lot less money) in his Hawthorn days.

But that thought bubble never went far.

In fact, in 2016 and 2018 when Hawthorn faced key crossroads on its list build, and whether to top-up to push for another flag, or zag for more youth, Wright was the one calling for kids.

It has been said those meetings in the Hawthorn inner sanctum at the end of the premiership era were as robust as they come.

And Wright did provide a contrary opinion to Clarksonā€™s premiership top-up plan.

But in the end they opted for Jaeger Oā€™Meara, Tom Mitchell and Chad Wingard, as part of another flag trade assault which was ultimately unsuccessful. To be clear, Wright signed off on the Oā€™Meara, Mitchell and Wingard trades, too, but they were vigorous debates.

Two weeks ago when some old Hawthorn friends caught up, Wright was there. So the ties remain strong from one of the most successful periods in recent history.

But halfway through the pandemic, which stressed every football department in the game, Wright moved to Collingwood, where the list Tetris once again began quickly.

And in a fortnight, there is another trophy to add to his cabinet.

Not that you will hear him spruik about it.

ā€œWe talk a lot about the great coaches in the game, but success has followed Wrighty,ā€ a friend said.

ā€œAnd he probably doesnā€™t get enough credit for the work that heā€™s done.

ā€œBut that is how he likes it.ā€
Click to expand...
 
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