List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[Mollythedolly]

I think they’ll keep trading those picks in the 20s for more 3rd rounders that add up to more points. It’s pick 50 that could come down to 40

Can only carry a draft pick if you have an associated list vacancy so mass accumulation is pretty pointless.

 

[Ugene41]

It's about maximising assets. I don't really want that forward line. It's about more than just being able to push up the field, flexibility is key, having multiple non key forwards who can also rotate (potentially heavily if required), through the midfield is far more optimal than having multiple pure forwards. Hence consistently having players like Adams and Lipinski sit in the forward line. This also allows positional moves like the Daicos boys, or others to move forward, rotating with these guys without losing too much midfield quality during the period while that happens.

I'm sure guys like McCreery and Schultz (no idea how much he's actually played mid for Freo) can do stints in the midfield, but you are likely losing quality during the rotation vs having experienced mids like Lipinski or Adams up there as rotators (IMO even though people talk about McCreery moving into midfield, I feel like if he was really good there, he'd be rotating through far more than he has, could be proven wrong). And you obviously don't particularly want guys like Hill, Ginni or Elliott rotating into midfield if you want to maintain any kind of midfield quality for any length of time. You want that good mix of pure forwards, vs high quality midfield rotators.

So I'm fine keeping Ginnivan, but he's a fairly one dimensional player, who if we got a fairly good asset for I would be fine letting go of.

Unless Ginnivan is going to get us a first round pick, trading him for a second round pick will be useless to us. No one currently values a second round pick in compromised drafts.

We're in a flag window and Ginnivan is ready to step up when needed. A second round pick will just be idling in the VFL not ready for another 2 years. That or they'll get delisted after their draft contract from lack of opportunity.

 

[KinderSmock]

Unless Ginnivan is going to get us a first round pick, trading him for a second round pick will be useless to us. No one currently values a second round pick in compromised drafts.

We're in a flag window and Ginnivan is ready to step up when needed. A second round pick will just be idling in the VFL not ready for another 2 years. That or they'll get delisted after their draft contract from lack of opportunity.

Well based on journalists and what they've said, it would be unlikely. Although, stranger things have happened. Trade period is a bit boring today but no surprise there. Deadline day needs to be exciting.

 

[Johno9911]

It's about maximising assets. I don't really want that forward line. It's about more than just being able to push up the field, flexibility is key, having multiple non key forwards who can also rotate (potentially heavily if required), through the midfield is far more optimal than having multiple pure forwards. Hence consistently having players like Adams and Lipinski sit in the forward line. This also allows positional moves like the Daicos boys, or others to move forward, rotating with these guys without losing too much midfield quality during the period while that happens.

I'm sure guys like McCreery and Schultz (no idea how much he's actually played mid for Freo) can do stints in the midfield, but you are likely losing quality during the rotation vs having experienced mids like Lipinski or Adams up there as rotators (IMO even though people talk about McCreery moving into midfield, I feel like if he was really good there, he'd be rotating through far more than he has, could be proven wrong). And you obviously don't particularly want guys like Hill, Ginni or Elliott rotating into midfield if you want to maintain any kind of midfield quality for any length of time. You want that good mix of pure forwards, vs high quality midfield rotators.

So I'm fine keeping Ginnivan, but he's a fairly one dimensional player, who if we got a fairly good asset for I would be fine letting go of.

This is an interesting point regarding to rotations and use around the ground. I agree that the benefit of having Adams/Lipinski is what they bring with the ability to go through the middle (and as a result allowing us to shuffle other pieces around). Imo if we look at it as Adams+Lippa being replaced by Beau+Schultz as the FWD/Mid rotaters, we certainly improve the FWD element of it but you're right that at this stage Adams+Lippa give me more confidence in impacting as midfielders.

I do think we'll see different approach this year, if we go on the assumption that our "main midfield group" is JDG, Titch, NDaicos and JDaicos/Sidey as wings, we can then rotate Crisp and Pendlebury of HBF with MccReery and Schultz from the forward mix. Additionally we would look at having a Fin/Ed coming into the side as pure midfielders with either one or both of them coming on the way many hope/expect they will. Lipinski will of course still be around and in the mix as part of the midfield group like he was in 2022 (more than the FWD group), and I also wonder if we'd see an IQ or Noble look to spend more time around the ball given our smaller options down back.

 

[ksardog]

Ginnivan was saying he wants to play midfield next year

well he needs an off season where he puts on 5kg of muscle , get his body in shape to warrant a run through the middle. By the time preseason comes around we will all know how committed he is to be the best he can be
he has the talent, but it is up to him

 

[Kirby]

I have read on this board in the past few days that Taylor Adams' three-year deal at Swans is worth 2.4 mill? Is this correct? If so, there's the clear and only necessary reason for him moving there. My understanding is he had 1 more year to run with us back-ended at about 800? He would have probably got 500-odd a season for another couple of years with us?

I posted that figure in error.

I can't find any info on what the figures actually are.

I'd say it's safe to say at least $650K (what he was already on) and maybe up to $800K per year.

That's 1.95 to 2.4 mill range.

 

[OfficialJordynRuffhead]

It's about maximising assets. I don't really want that forward line. It's about more than just being able to push up the field, flexibility is key, having multiple non key forwards who can also rotate (potentially heavily if required), through the midfield is far more optimal than having multiple pure forwards. Hence consistently having players like Adams and Lipinski sit in the forward line. This also allows positional moves like the Daicos boys, or others to move forward, rotating with these guys without losing too much midfield quality during the period while that happens.

I'm sure guys like McCreery and Schultz (no idea how much he's actually played mid for Freo) can do stints in the midfield, but you are likely losing quality during the rotation vs having experienced mids like Lipinski or Adams up there as rotators (IMO even though people talk about McCreery moving into midfield, I feel like if he was really good there, he'd be rotating through far more than he has, could be proven wrong). And you obviously don't particularly want guys like Hill, Ginni or Elliott rotating into midfield if you want to maintain any kind of midfield quality for any length of time. You want that good mix of pure forwards, vs high quality midfield rotators.

So I'm fine keeping Ginnivan, but he's a fairly one dimensional player, who if we got a fairly good asset for I would be fine letting go of.

Would agree with your assessment if not for the fact that I think Ginni has shown he can grow into an Adams type role for us. Lipinksi often sits just outside a contest and takes up very aggressive positioning gambling on us winning it, so obviously Ginni wouldn't be suited to replicating that.

But if you watch his appearances towards the end of 2023 you can see that he has extremely quick hands, and aside from playing for high frees more than we'd like, is a strong 20yo ground ball player, who finds the drop of the ball better than most. Here his lack of burst wouldn't be exposed, really he'd just need to work on endurance and strength though his low center of gravity for a deceptively tall player helps here.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Unless Ginnivan is going to get us a first round pick, trading him for a second round pick will be useless to us. No one currently values a second round pick in compromised drafts.

We're in a flag window and Ginnivan is ready to step up when needed. A second round pick will just be idling in the VFL not ready for another 2 years. That or they'll get delisted after their draft contract from lack of opportunity.

Those so eager to push Ginni out seem to forget Billy is 31 .

Bobby can play wing (Sidebottom).

Adams has left.

That potentially leaves 3 forward spots available in the near future.

And then there are always the inevitable injuries.

 

[Scodog10]

Pete Ryan from the age also just told me no club is making any move for ginni.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Who’s next? Clark? McClure? Morris? Gabelich? I don’t feel like much is changing with each journo you reach out to…

 

[Apex36]

Why? Stevens will be as much of a factor next year as Allan was this year unless we have a diabolical injury run.

He’s under the impression Stephens is plug and play, which almost never happens. He was claiming a week ago that the kid was a ready made Adams replacement, which is ludicrous. No 18 year old is an adequate replacement for a 200 game inside bull.

 

[Jen2310]

Who’s next? Clark? McClure? Morris? Gabelich? I don’t feel like much is changing with each journo you reach out to…

McClure? Ew lol Please. I have some respect.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

McClure? Ew lol Please. I have some respect.

I trust your sources Jen, (& his own manager) over any of the Ginni haters on here who jump at any opportunity to push him out the door.

 

[Apex36]

So he really had given up on ever being a premiership player ..

Sounds to me that he wanted to extend and we wouldn’t give him any guarantees beyond 2024, so he and his management got on the front foot. If it’s a toss up between guaranteed career longevity and the low percentage chance at a flag, I understand why he’d choose the former.

 

[Scodog10]

He’s under the impression Stephens is plug and play, which almost never happens. He was claiming a week ago that the kid was a ready made Adams replacement, which is ludicrous. No 18 year old is an adequate replacement for a 200 game inside bull.

Setting aside my thoughts on the interest from kinder I think it’s more likely he goes undrafted than he’s this plug and play answer to all our prayers.

 

[Scodog10]

McClure? Ew lol Please. I have some respect.

I’ll pay that! As a straight male he gives me the icks. That said Ginnivan’s staying you can release the tension on that one.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Sounds to me that he wanted to extend and we wouldn’t give him any guarantees beyond 2024, so he and his management got on the front foot. If it’s a toss up between guaranteed career longevity and the low percentage chance at a flag, I understand why he’d choose the former.

Yeah I don't blame him at all for prolonging his career in his preferred position. Probably similar situation to Mitchell coming to us.

Just surprised about the timing of it at the start of the finals campaign. And I guess I had just assumed when I first heard the Adams news, (like I think most did) that it was the Swans who reached out to him, not the other way round.

It's even more surprising to me that he'd reach out to a team (North, if true) with next to no chance of playing in a GF before his career ended.

But anyway, it's done now. We probably need to all move on.

And rewatch the replay

 

[nahnah]

Thought I’d go on the Freo board to see what they were valuing Shultz at and WOW I’ve seen it all now someone was accusing John Ralph of being pro Collingwood and doing his best to help us out I almost fell off my chair and another said the Vic media are protecting JDG that one was my favourite

yeah I would say suggesting the man who was almost in tears on fox footy following the 2018 prelim being pro pies is an interesting take

 

[Ugene41]

I'm still hoping we have something up our sleeve in terms of a cheap older pickup. Ie Nick Haynes

19

Nick Haynes

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

326.8

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

13.9

5star

HB

3.5

2star

M

8.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

MG

326.8

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

, Hawkins UFA or even Billings.

These experienced mature players are the ones that make the biggest difference when topping up for another flag challenge. The key is to get them for cheap.

 

[cakewalk06]

I posted that figure in error.

I can't find any info on what the figures actually are.

I'd say it's safe to say at least $650K (what he was already on) and maybe up to $800K per year.

That's 1.95 to 2.4 mill range.

Fair enough. I really think we are going to miss Tay more than expected. He gave us a real hard edge imo

 

[Fruit]

Has Schultz gone through the midfield much with Freo or does he only play forward?

 

[KinderSmock]

I'm still hoping we have something up our sleeve in terms of a cheap older pickup. Ie Nick Haynes, Hawkins UFA or even Billings.

These experienced mature players are the ones that make the biggest difference when topping up for another flag challenge. The key is to get them for cheap.

I'd rather hit the state leagues.

 

[whiskeytown]

I'm still hoping we have something up our sleeve in terms of a cheap older pickup. Ie Nick Haynes, Hawkins UFA or even Billings.

These experienced mature players are the ones that make the biggest difference when topping up for another flag challenge. The key is to get them for cheap.

I like the idea but I think Haynes is on a lot of coin at this point.

Rumour was they were going to send him and a draft pick to NM

Not sure we have the room cap wise to land him

 

[Ugene41]

I like the idea but I think Haynes is on a lot of coin at this point.

Rumour was they were going to send him and a draft pick to NM

Not sure we have the room cap wise to land him

I'd hope we can jump at that and the draft pick on offer.

We should have the space given we had the Doedee money and Adams backended contract off our books now. Haynes only has 1 year left on big money so there's flexibility to rearrange the spend with that.

 

[whiskeytown]

I'd hope we can jump at that and the draft pick on offer.

We should have the space given we had the Doedee money and Adams backended contract off our books now. Haynes only has 1 year left on big money so there's flexibility to rearrange the spend with that.

Yeah maybe offer him the remaining money over 2 years plus a games trigger for a 3rd year on reduced money

Certainly need more depth down back… especially now with Murphy’s future clouded

 

[legendstatus]

Haynes would make me look forward to our 3peat more so.

I think if we give him an additional year to smooth out the money, it may work but hey, what do I know